Changing Account name for Army ROTC

[Exar Ganis]

Guys, I'm kinda worried about something. I didn't make this mistake for Air Force ROTC and Navy ROTC, but I made a big mistake for army. When i made my account several months back, I accidentally registered with my account that I am using to deal with service academies and my nominating authorities. I registered as academy_hopeful@hotmail.com. When I realized this, i wasn't overly bothered because I thought it was an email I could change like on most sites, but Army uses your email as your account name, which is what the PMS sees. My dad was in the states, and happened to talk to the PMS of the school, and talked about how they don't like Academy applicants because they spend too much time on people with ROTC scholarships. I need to find a way to switch my account name. I sent my POC an email about this. I don't think there is a way to switch my account name/account email.

The only other choice I see if my POC can't make the changes is if I made a new account. This will not be a problem, but I have to make sure that my supplemental stuff including transcripts and scores are registered with my new account..

Any ideas about this guys? I know I know... I always have something that gets my screwed all the time. :frown:

[USNA69]

Any ideas about this guys? I know I know... I always have something that gets my screwed all the time.

Don't worry about it. Worry about something over which you have control, your SATs. If if they don't "like" it, regardless, it is a fact of life. USNA almost "requires" a ROTC backup plan. The army would be short sighted if they weren't the same. I very highly doubt that they would penalize prospect who they knew wanted to attend a SA.

[Exar Ganis]

I see... This is a part of the email he sent me:


The PMS here has already made one round of selections. So he advised that you get everything, including the SATs in to them very soon. One important point - they don't like to hear that the ROTC is a "fall back" for not getting into West Point...they don't want to waste ROTC scholarship selections for someone who's primary goal is the USMA, and if they get selected for the Academy then it took time and effort away from another ROTC applicant. Not a very realistic approach, since of course ROTC is a fall back, but just wanted to let you know so you don't state that in anything you send. LTC Rodney also mentioned the interviews....the PMS usually does them in person or sometimes by phone. I told him that you could call for the interview but that as I understood it your JROTC commander was coordinating these locally, and that you were due to be interviewed by another officer on Yongsan (told him I was tapped to also conduct an interview of a prospective candidate when I returned).

I know that a backup plan is always required, but I think one should never have anything that alludes to the fact you are more interested in an SA. Clearly my email address shows that I'm overly interested.

[USNA69]

If you had already made up your mind, why did you post the question?

I am sure that it will come up in your interview. Are you going to be honest or are you going to conform to your above quote?

I will stick with my original advice.

A "I just want to be commissioned and of course I want a SA but if that is not possible, ROTC is it for me" comment should suffice (and be true).

It actually bothers me that a ROTC instructor would make such an implication. Does he want candidates to lie or does he want to simply settle for second best? The Navy is in final planning to combine the ROTC and USNA into one single application.

[Just_A_Mom]

I agree with USNA69 - very unprofessional.....

when my daughter was offered her AROTC scholarhip at her interview - she was very upfront and told the PMS she probably could not accept it right away since she was applying to USMA. He told her not to worry go ahead and accept - he had lost other scholarship winners to USMA and even ROTC cadets. He was very supportive - but then he was an USMA grad!!

Now, when we visited the school in April and met with the Enrollment officer - he clearly didn't want her accepting a prep program and USMA - tried to talk her out of it. Said ROTC was just as good etc.....he went OCS.
He was not happy when she chose MMI.

Now from the ROTC point of view - they are basically recruiters and trying to fill a ROTC position. Army ROTC is low on numbers - the time and effort they put into you could be put into another ROTC candidate. This doesn't make their attitude correct. When it is difficult to find enough qualified candidates for ROTC then I can understand their frustration. Just so you know where he is coming from.

I still think it is best to be open and honest. Frankly - last year they extended the scholarship deadline and had plenty of money for scholarships.
My GUT feeling is that if you didn't get into USMA and then needed a ROTC scholarship, was qualified and fit the scholar, athlete, leader model then you will get one.

Don't worry about your email address. If they ask - be honest. Tell them as soon as you hear anything from USMA you will let them know.

[Exar Ganis]

USNA69, you know what the irony is? The PMS was a graduate from USMA. I cut that part out since it was surrounded with irrelevant Dad-son convo.


I called Fort Monroe and they told me that there is a way to change it, and that they'd take care of it for me. NOW, I won't have to lie because they won't question me in the first place.

[Soylent]

USNA69, you know what the irony is? The PMS was a graduate from USMA. I cut that part out since it was surrounded with irrelevant Dad-son convo.


I called Fort Monroe and they told me that there is a way to change it, and that they'd take care of it for me. NOW, I won't have to lie because they won't question me in the first place.

So you would have lied in the first place? God forbid you're tested and do what is right.

[Pima]

I agree wiith Soylent, an officer is an officer, you are to have a moral fortitude that cannot be broken.

You have stated that you are a dependent, may I ask if your active duty parent would agree with you openly lying?

[Just_A_Mom]

NOW, I won't have to lie because they won't question me in the first place.


Seriously, Exar Ganis - I used to think you were just frustrated, then I thought it was immaturity - but know I really wonder if you have what it takes.

I wonder if you can live up to the Honor Code at West Point - Do you know what that is?
I wonder if you can even be a good officer at all.

No one has to go into West Point or ROTC perfect but you need to have what it take to be developed into a good officer. I am not seeing that with you.
Maybe you need to take a good long look in the mirror and ask yourself why you are doing this?

[Exar Ganis]

Calm down guys. I didn't mean it that way. I was just saying that the opportunity won't ever come up, nothing more.

Soylent, don't question my morality. You know absolutely nothing about what goes on behind closed doors within the senior ranks of the United States Army like I do.

[Just_A_Mom]

Exar Ganis -

Don't make me go back an remind you of all the excuses and whining comments you have come up with over the past few months.
While it is true that tone is difficult to convey in a forum like this - I suggest you try harder to do just that.
If you are going to bring the hammer down on Soylent then you better bring it down and Pima and me as well.

Explain this comment:
You know absolutely nothing about what goes on behind closed doors within the senior ranks of the United States Army like I do.
Sounds like you are throwing your (soon to be General) Dad's weight around. Once you get to West Point or ROTC no one is going to care if your Dad is a General or not. In fact, I suggest that you don't broadcast it.

I was just saying that the opportunity won't ever come up, nothing more. How do you know that? Go back and read your Dad's email - the subject ALREADY came up! Seriously, do you think the PMS brought it up out of the blue? Sounds like your Dad already told him you were applying to a SA.

Not only that - what are you going to say in the interview if the PMS asks you what other college you are applying to? Are you going to be truthful? hedge? lie?

Again, you are taking a minor situation and blowing it out of proportion. If you are lining up your excuses as to why you didn't get an Appointment or Scholarship - you are doing a pretty good job of it.
What excuse are you going to use if you get into an Academy or get that ROTC scholarship and you get run out because of your attitude or lack of honor?

If you (or anyone else) thinks I am coming down hard on you - I am. We have been back and forth for a while and I think you need to seriously question if you want to be an officer in the Army.
If you are doing this to appease your father - then just don't do it. I will support any candidate who changes his/her mind to go do what they want.
Now go take a good look in the mirror.

[Exar Ganis]

Mom, I try to be as respectful as I can to individuals here, so let me say this as best as possible. Sometimes we have to lie alittle bit to save us trouble. If it doesn't hurt any party then it should be fine. If I'm talking to an Air Force Officer during an interview, I will throw up a blue flag and let him know how interested I am in. He asked me in person whether I was interested in Army or Air Force ROTC more, and of course I said Air Force. I wasn't going to kill my chances. Do you think this tactic is coming from me, and me alone? Because its not. I bet about 90 percent or more of ROTC applicants did the same thing as I did. Every CADET in my school did that because they were instructed to do that. Who in their mind would say... "Of course Air Force isn't. Army is."
Let's see how that works out with cadet command. Its all about strategy. It isn't the PMS's business what school you are prioritizing over the other. That is my business alone, and its going to be kept that way. It's all about varying your chances to see how far you can get by being noncommittal. Every Army Officer knows that because they speak to more than one boss. There is a chain of command that sometimes interlocks in very strange ways. You may have to appease a few times and be persuasive (as long as it is not extreme).

Seriously, who is going to say .. "Air Force ROTC,.. or AROTC is my fall back" Good luck with getting your backup schools because chances are.. YOU WON'T GET IT! unless you are seriously walking on water like there's no tomorrow. ALSO, PMS can do what they want. They can give a scholarship who is commited to ROTC that has a 2.6, and skip a 4.0 student who desire to attend an SA anyway. They're are no strings. They are their own bosses. ALSO, PMS can see all the other schools you are applying to via online scholarship account.

-XR

[Just_A_Mom]

Sometimes we have to lie alittle bit to save us trouble. If it doesn't hurt any party then it should be fine.

Lets start with this sentence - No you don't have to "lie a little bit to save us trouble".

It doesn't matter if either party is hurt or not. The fact is a lie is a lie and it is about your honor not whether or not you are hurting the other party.

I don't have anything to say about the rest that hasn't already been said.

[Exar Ganis]

I don't have anything to say about the rest that hasn't already been said.

Same thing. I applied one situation to another.

[Pima]

Exar,
JAM is right bring it down me too. I called you out just as much as soylent. I don't know Soylent's background, but obviously JAM and I are both parents.
Here is mine AFAD/DW of 19 yrs..yes an officer's wife. I actually have been with him since ROTC. He chose the AFROTC over the SA...OMG how stupid is what you are thinking. He was young and decided he wanted to experience college and not spend it walking the pavement. Yes he did get a flying slot...even has attended sister schools in residence, while other acads never got that shot.
That being said, I only have 1 ? for you. What would Dad do as a leader when he knows that an officer in his command didn't lie, but just skirted the truth a bit?
So what is your 1st choice? Is it to be an officer or just join the military? If it is the second you will have a miserable career. The military is not the same as it was prior to Gulf 1, deployments are longer, benefits are worse and chances of promotions are becoming less, our budget is getting to the point that we are constantly having to find new ways to squeak out another penny. YOU MUST LOVE THE BRANCH, it is not enough to say I want to serve my country. You can do that in other ways, become a diplomat, go to law school join DOJ, become an acct and work for IRS, become a teacher and go overseas fo DODD schools. Putting on a uniform is just not the only answer.
My S wants to join the AF and only the AF. He is not trying for the Army or Navy, he knows he would not want to be on a boat or in a tank. Does that make him selfish and truly not military, IMO no, it makes him smart...he understands who he is and what he wants. Of course I am bias, but I think the AF would rather have 100 AF service members that want the AF, than 100 who just want to serve. The reason the AF has such a high retention rate is that is their motivation when recruiting.
Finally, go back and re-read everything you said, ask yourself if you are being honest with yourself? If you believe that your actions were right, then fine you have to look at yourself in the mirror, not me. If you think otherwise than start changing your actions.
IMO you need to see also how people perceive you, because the MOC's, the recruiters, the ALO/MALO/BGO are my age, not yours, we see the pic differently. One day you will too.

[Luigi59]

Sometimes we have to lie alittle bit to save us trouble.

The code remains "A cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those who do."

I couldn't find the part that said "except when we have to lie a little bit to save us trouble."

[Pima]

Exar,
I know you think we are ganging up on you, but we aren't.

We all are just trying to point out how you can become the best officer that the military deserves.

Finally, I am sure you want us to respect you as an adult, we do, however, you must accept the criticism as an adult. I still get criticism everyday, I will always defend myself, but I also take it and try to make myself a better person. I think this is why people aren't letting it drop. You defend yourself, but never say, you know what I seem to be the only person who feels this way, maybe I should re-visit my stance and see it from someone else's point, (in this case it looks like everyone elses opinion).

Not meaning to be antagonistic, but please state your case to why we all should change our opinion. Use real life military examples that you have come into contact with about the little lie that didn't hurt.

[LineInTheSand]

I've just read this thread, so I feel the need to weigh in.


1. Service Academies. My top pick, USCGA followed by USNA, followed by USMMA. I would hardly call the later two back ups, but that was the order. I stayed overnight at CGA and MMA. When asked which I would go to, I said I wasn't sure and that's why I was there. Sure I was leaning towards CGA, but I wasn't positive. It was my experiences that weekend that set it in stone.

2. I had two Congressional interviews, one for Rep. Bob Clement and one for Sen. Bill Frist. I got two nominations for each academy (USNA and USMMA, no Congressional nomination needed for USCGA). In my First interview, I was asked straight up about my plans. I told him that CGA was my top pick, but I liked USNA and USMMA and had a NROTC scholarship lined up. When asked which schools I applied to for it, I said Auburn, UNC, and Vanderbilt, with Vandy being my top pick. Came to find out later he was the boss for that unit. He understood CLEARLY that I considered the NROTC option as a back up, BUT he accepted my into the Vanderbilt NROTC without a followup interview. I was honest and open, I wanted to serve my country, plain and simple. I chose the sea services. You can't SELL that stuff, it has to be natural. Don't play to the interviewer, they can see right through it. This isn't some TV game with strategy. You stay open and honest, and they can see it.

3. Honesty is not a joke, it's not something you can distort to "meet your objective". You sacrifice it, you're gone. Doesn't matter if daddy has ONE star. Doesn't matter is daddy has four stars. Kid three years below me had a one star (now two) who was a district commander. He never talked about it. That's good because using the shadow of your father will not get you far in your commissioning program, or even more importantly, the service you go into.


From an officer, I find your comments disturbing. If you're going to come onto a board to get help, and then pounce on someone who you don't agree with, it's not needed.

You need to take a round turn on your attitude and take a look at the real reason you're joining the worlds greatest Armed Forces.

[LineInTheSand]

The reason the AF has such a high retention rate is that is their motivation when recruiting.

It might also be the extremely nice golf courses....

[justawife]

No it is because when they (AF) deploy it is only to 4 star hotels. LOL

Someone joked with my spouse about that.

[Pima]

My h always says it is because he "chose wisely" (indiana jones movie)LOL

[Zaphod]

You need to take a round turn on your attitude...

Wow. Now there's an expression I've not heard in a while! :eek:

Appropriate in this case, too.

[zachogden]

You know absolutely nothing about what goes on behind closed doors within the senior ranks of the United States Army like I do.

That is the hardest I've laughed in a long, long time... thank you Exar Ganis, you've brightened my day.

Edit: I didn't realize your dad is a senior officer. Here's a tip... my dad's a senior O-6 in the USCG, but I sure as hell don't ever assume or assert that I "know what goes on behind closed doors within the senior ranks of the Coast Guard," because unless you're there, you don't. Does daddy know that honesty means nothing to you, however trivial it may be?

[Exar Ganis]

You know nothing about what my father does. Look up General Maples, and maybe you will know what I mean.

[Pima]

OK and as you have stated before that Dad is a 1 star to be, not a 3 star.

You are also missing the point. At anytime in your father's career have you ever sat in on a meeting? You should be answering "NO", thus, you do not have any real life experience dealing with the military except as a dependent.

[Exar Ganis]

Okay, how about we lock this thread. But, no I didn't say rank. Maples works with my dad, and I was trying to show you what organization he's involved in. Nothing more, nothing less.

[LineInTheSand]

Maybe his father is a general's aide.


It's generally not a good idea to ride on the success of others.

[Exar Ganis]

You guys missed the point when I said that. I was just trying to point out that the military is never run on pure honesty and morals, because the fact of the matter is.. its impossible. Sometimes they have to be bent alittle bit.

[Pima]

No Dad works with Maples...RHIP!

Again, the point that everyone is trying to get you to comprehend, is that you do not work in the military, you are a dependent.

If my h saw my s write that comment(know the inner-workings of the Army), well needless to say, he would not be on the net for a very long time.

Also you do show that you don't understand the military. You broke the cardinal rule...OPSEC, I could easily now go and surf the net and find out who your father is...don't worry it's not worth my effort.

[Pima]

Rules are not bent. I have lived 20 yrs. with my husband and I have yet to see him or anyone else (excepts those court martial) who has bent the rules a little.

I do think my experience as a spouse of 20 years gives a little more credence that it doesn't happen.

You need to stop this point of defense because now you look like you are saying that your father the BG to be and MG Maples bend the rules a little to make it work ---afterall, you have stated that you have 1st hand knowledge

[LineInTheSand]

It sounds like you have no idea what you're talking about. First you come onto a thread trying to pass yourself off as the offspring of a flag officer. Maybe you didn't out and out say it, but I have a feeling you were try to "bend it" in your favor.


The TRUTH is, that it is NOT appropriate to "bend it". You cannot go through a military career picking and choosing when you will be completely forthcoming, and when you will hold back information. That doesn't get much support from the US public (who we work for), and it certainly won't help youi gain ANY trust from your superiors or subordinates.


Frankly having read your posts, at this point I have a feeling I know where you hold your honor (a word I doubt has much meaning to you). Now you may say that I don't KNOW you, and this is true, but at this point I think you might want to find greener pastures.


You're not even in a US Armed forces uniform, whether that be black, blue or green and you're claiming that military officers must be bent. That is not what a service academy is looking for out of applicants, nor is it what I'm looking for, as a tax payer, out of the future officers in the Greatest Military in the world.


No it is NOT appropriate to bend the truth for your own benefit. You are wrong.

[USMA08Mom]

My husband had the pleasure of serving with Mike Maples several times over his career -- he is one of the finest officers we have ever known. One of the key points anyone who has ever dealt with him will mention is his honesty and forthrightness -- with Mike you get what you see.

I think EG may have been alluding to the fact that Mike is now the head of the DIA -- perhaps in his mind that insinuates cloak and dagger "spy" action.

Having two sons currently at USMA and having heard about several honor boards over the past 3 1/2 years, I can assure EG that telling a small lie that makes things more convenient will not end well at USMA. No lie is considered trivial, and one often leads to more...

[Antoinette]

Exar Ganis, honesty is always the best policy, especially in your interviews and your applications to colleges. You will be stronger mentally if you adhere to the honor codes that most colleges require you to sign when you apply. I think the nice folks here are trying to help you in these conversations you are having on this forum. You demonstrate potential. May I suggest a book for you to read: "In Search of Ethics: Conversations with Men and Women of Character" by Len Marrella. It is one of the two books West Point gave to the Class of 2011 before they entered. I think you will enjoy it.

[Pima]

Ok lets go with cloak and dagger because its' intelligence, I might be wrong because H is AF and not intel, but has them in their office. Intel has to be the most honest with facts, otherwise we are bombing and invading on lies.

Also I am not aware of any intel officer that goes undercover. SP's yes for drug and theft busts, but not intel. Intel is to collect data and interpret, so the heirarchy has the most informed decisions.

Finally, other countries may bend the truth and that is where he has seen rules bent, that being said, it is other countries not US.

[Exar Ganis]

Yes, honesty is very important. lol, everyone in the DIA must be screened with a lie detector test every few months, and everyone fails the very last question. "Have you ever stolen government property?"

They know they accidentally steal paper and government issued materials all the time, and those that lie, actually do get caught even though it seems so trivial at the very beginning.

Guys, I'm an honest guy. Really, I am. I didn't think declaring an unintended major was that serious since 60 percent of all people usually change their majors anyway.

[Zaphod]

JUST TELL THE TRUTH, FOR CRYING OUT LOUD! HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY IT? :mad:

[Pima]

EG,
Go back to the start of this thread, it wasn't about lying about your major, that is a different thread.
This thread was about not telling the truth for the ROTC scholarship ---changing account name because you don't want to tell the ROTC committee that you want an academy slot.

For honesty, you just proved that you will bend the truth not once, but at least twice.

[Exar Ganis]

My account name was changed. Had I not done that, I would've been surely at the mercy of the PMS. For Christ's sake, the PMS (a USMA grad) told my dad flat out in person that he doesn't like hearing anything about people wanting to attend an academy because they are a waste of time. This isn't on me anymore. My dad and my SAI will kill me if I tell him that I'm aiming for a SA. What more do you want me to do? My dad sent me an order, and that order was to SHUT UP! If anyone here says anything bad about my dad for saying that, I will respond with a pretty nasty response that will get me immediately banned from this board, so whoever would like that, feel free to do so.

[Pima]

No one would ever say anything about your Dad. Yet, there is a question that needs to be answered, why would he kill you for applying to an SA? If he is ok with you going into the military, why not an SA. Also you have stated that you have a pres. nom. To get one Dad had to send the paperwork to get one, thus he knows you are applying.

[LineInTheSand]

Oh how tempting that is...



Read the "Honor" thread, I think you're in need of it.


It is absolutely rediculous this has to be covered this much. Some people were not meant for military service, maybe this is just being illustrated.

At the Academy there were three kinds of people, the fly on the wall that didn't get much negative attention and just kind of made it. You kind of wanted to be that guy. There were the average cadets, who would from time to time, need to be corrected and that was normal. I would put myself in that category. Then there were the lightning rods, who attracted all of the negative attention. You don't want to be a lightning rod, but many times it's from your own actions/decisions.


You have become a lightning rod, and you are burning bridges, all with out having any standing in the organizations you wish to join.



Pima,

I think he's saying his dad didn't want him ruining his chances with ROTC by identifying himself with Service Academy hopefuls. That advice is ill-informed. None of this is new to the ROTC programs or service academies.

[Luigi59]

...the military is never run on pure honesty and morals

But the admissions boards of the academies are.

[USMA08Mom]

"Sometimes we have to lie alittle bit to save us trouble."

EG -- my suggestion is that you show your father this whole thread -- particularly the line above, and have a discussion with him about the subject. I am not suggesting this because I think your dad will chew you out, but as a way to have a real discussion with him. I think (hope) that your interpretation of bending the truth for convenience sake and his probably differ and he will be able to explain these differences to you. I also think you will better understand why the members of this forum find the words so inflammatory, as I perceive you as still thinking it is a trivial matter that everyone has blown out of proportion.

[Exar Ganis]

Yes. I was at SLS, and I do remember the honor code monument. Forget about the parts where I said lying was okay to save me trouble. I want to zero in the fact that I will feign my interest with Army ROTC, because quite frankly, my goal is to commission, and I don't truly care which way I go. I prefer the SA, but ROTC is just as equal in my eyes. I guess in that case, I wouldn't be lying to the PMS since I am interested in ROTC just as much.

[Pima]

Out of curiosity, is it that the colleges you have picked aren't thrilling you? Which colleges are you looking at? Citadel, VMI or are you going mainstream...UCLA (figure since you are calif. resident that would be a top contender)

Maybe ROTC doesn't thrill you because you want the whole atmosphere, if that is the case try looking at other colleges. Remember, if I am correct you are not yet Triple Q'd and every candidates need a back-up.

I am not saying you won't get in, I am saying people would love to get a ROTC scholarship. This of course goes back to the changing majors, because ROTC scholarships are given out depending on majors.

[mom3boys]

I agree w/ Pima...if my kid were online spewing things that would embarass the family or give strangers information to identify us, first I would rip him a new one, then he would be so grounded. After I took away the computer I'd take away the car. If you were my kid, life would be very, very unpleasant for you for quite a while. Fortunately, my son would never behave in this manner. :eek:

[Exar Ganis]

I always wanted to go to a SA since I was really young, and I still do. SLS made the SA admission possibility feel as though it was in the palm of my hand. I have slightly changed my mind almost to a full 180 degrees because my congressman and senator seem to have alienated me from their pile of prospective candidates. I have never lived in CA or anywhere in the U.S. (only a few months in Washington D.C. I feel as though my CA congressman are somewhat treating my unfairly. The only chance I have is with a JROTC nomination and Presidential. I have contemplated in the last 5 hours to submit an application ED II to one school, but something is stopping me from doing this. I do want the SA experience more than anything. No one in my family has ever gone to a service academy, and everyone has been through military service as a career. My dad was indeed a USMA hopeful, but wasn't accepted, and earned his commission through UCLA ROTC. AND NO! I didn't apply to any UCs. Way too big for me. I'm used to DoDDea schools that have a total school population of 1000. I'm also considering civil prep too, but at the same time, I don't know if I'd get rejected a second time from my nominating authorities.

[LineInTheSand]

You want that commission no matter what...well let's break down the commission that I just pulled out of my desk. I'm only going to cover the first little bit.


"Know Ye, that reposing special trust and confidence in the patriotism, valor, fidelity, and abilities of XXXXXXX, I do appoint this Officer to the grade of Lieutenant Junior Grade in the United States Coast Guard to rank as such...."


Trust - n. reliance on the integrity, strength, ability, surety, etc., of a person or thing; confidence.


Fidelity - n.
1. strict observance of promises, duties, etc.: a servant's fidelity.
2. loyalty: fidelity to one's country.
3. conjugal faithfulness.
4. adherence to fact or detail.
5. accuracy; exactness: The speech was transcribed with great fidelity.


I also want to break down one of the words from the trust definition.

Integrity - n. 1. adherence to moral and ethical principles; soundness of moral character; honesty.

From your comments, I find you lacking in this,but you CAN change that.


You see, this document I have here next to me, with the letter head of The President of the United States doesn't agree with what you have said. This is a legal document, notifying me of my OBLIGATIONS to the American people signed "By the President" by Dept. of Homeland Secuirty Sec. Chertoff.

It means that I hold this rank because the President and the people of the United States TRUST in my INTEGRITY and my STRICT OBSERVANCE of my PROMISES to those people in the discharge of those duties. It's not up to ME to decide when a little white lie is appropriate or how I can trick someone to better my position.

It's not the rank you seek, or the commission you can put on your wall. It is about your service contributing to the greater good of this fine nation.

[Pima]

EG,

If you had the nod in the palm of your hand and a presidential, than the SA should still be there. You are under the belief that the MOC's are not looking at you because out of sight mentality. Let's addresss this logically:

1. California is competitive. I have stated before we are coming from a competitive state over 315 for the senators alone...figure it out, if you were from here you better have at least a couple of the following to be comp:
1. Valedictorian/Salutorian
2. Sports year round every year
3. Job
4. Positions on school board
5. 1400-1600 SAT...remember writing doesn't count
6. 31 + ACT
7. Eagle Scout
8. 3.6+ UW over 4.2 W

I am sure I missed things, but you need to compare yourself to the other candidates

2. IF you are competitive than your pres should get you in.

3. I have read many posters who felt the same that SLS will be your hook, and found out it wasn't. Main reason this is untrue is because many candidates never applied to SLS, thus, you now have a larger competitive pool.

4. What did you get on your CFA, did you max it out, or just pass...is this a reason the nod is no longer in the palm of your hand?

5. What makes you more competitive than your peers. I do not meant that it an antagonistic way, but you need to give us your stats for any of us to give you an honest opinion

YOu could be spinning your wheels, if you want help then give us all of the facts, not some that you selectively chose

[xchefmike]

The Conversation of the Trees

Stribling Walk was enshrouded by the veil of nighttime. The crickets were playing their sonorous symphonies for audiences unseen. A palpable darkness enveloped everything. I walked down that ancient red brick path from study hall and it all seemed especially eerie. The feeling sank into the depths of my being and consumed me. The impression might have come from the age of the path I tread. Or perhaps it was an awareness of the millions of lives affected by others who had walked this same path. Maybe it was simply that I was tired and passing in and out of a dreamy state of mind. But whatever the reason, my senses were sharpened to my surroundings.

I noticed the texture of the sidewalk, the humid Chesapeake air, and the sound of my steps in the silence. I looked up at the cathedral-like canopy of leaves hung from the outstretched arms of the trees and I imagined them as old men, bony and gaunt with age, still diligently performing a task they were given before time began. Considering these wizened sages, I wondered, "If you could talk, what conversations would you have with one another? What would be the subject of your discourse?"

Then, even as the questions formed in my mind, I began to hear in the shivering of their leaves a code, a language of communication. Like a radioman hearing some forbidden message from a foreign country intended only for privileged ears, I began to decipher the conversation of the trees.

At first, it was an unintelligible whisper, too faint to hear. Then the wind picked up a little and I could hear it very well. Their conversation consisted of a single word, "honor." At first I wasn't sure I heard correctly. Surely these trees have not spent their hundreds of years talking only about honor! Of many important topics in life, to dwell on only one seemed absurdly limited. The objections continued to rise in my mind. There are uncounted issues to be resolved. They must focus on those as well, correct? But it came again, more loudly,"HONOR."

Their persistence won out. I pondered, "Is there unique wisdom in this singular focus? After all, they have had a long time to dwell on many different things and they affirmatively settled on this one. Perhaps there is a reason." And then it came to me. I realized that here, at the Naval Academy, these trees are special. They know what it takes to be a leader. They have seen many leaders. They know what it means to follow truly great men. They have seen many followers. They know what must be done to live life so that, at the end of it, one may lie down unashamed. They have known well those who reached that point. As we walk this path, the trees evaluate each of us by our commitment to honor, and they record the measurement. Each Midshipman is considered, weighed, and judged as to whether he or she fulfills this highest of all virtues. They evaluate carefully, make their judgments, and their judgments are correct.

As I entered T-court, one question remained, "What about me?"

Written by a Midshipman

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exar you are getting a reputation as a sea lawyer already. There is still time to realize that just because others got away with it does not mean it is right.

[zachogden]

You know nothing about what my father does. Look up General Maples, and maybe you will know what I mean.

Who Maj. Gen. Maples is changes nothing about being completely honest at all times, nor does it change the fact that you shouldn't assert you know the inner workings of a service. Like I said earlier, my dad is in the military, and I would never assume to know of what happens "behind closed doors." That's foolish and immature, and it makes you somewhat of an immodest braggart. I would strongly recommend, from one candidate to another, that you begin taking the advice in this thread as soon as possible or consider another career as soon as possible.

[Exar Ganis]

I don't count CG as military. Sorry. That's just me.

[LineInTheSand]

Well, that was only a matter of time....


I'm not going to dignify that with anymore of a response.

[Exar Ganis]

1. Valedictorian/Salutorian
2. Sports year round every year
3. Job
4. Positions on school board
5. 1400-1600 SAT...remember writing doesn't count
6. 31 + ACT
7. Eagle Scout
8. 3.6+ UW over 4.2 W

1. Dont Have (Rank 6/180)
2. Have
3. Have
4. Have
5. Don't have
7. Have
8. Have

[zachogden]

I don't count CG as military. Sorry. That's just me.

There are times in my life where people say things that completely blow me away. This is one of those times. Requesting thread lock and/or ban.

[Pima]

EG,

You owe line in the sand an apology, actually if I am correct (1 thread was shut down b/c of offending) 2 apologies.

What sports, what job, what positions, to say have isn't enough info and if you answered MOC that way it wouldn't give me more detail to continue.

If you don't have the SAT than you are not triple q'd. Thus, why should they even go further. It is than legitimate, why would they spend time on a candidate that is not triple q'd when they have hundreds that are triple q'd?
It is not about out of sight, it is about that as of right now you are not a competitive candidate...sorry that's just the real world.

You have until Jan. 30 for USAFA, Mar for USMA, Apr for USNA (won't give USCGA...notice it starts with the same 2 letters as all of the others and ends with the same letter...apologize) So go take the SAT over again, you have a nom, unlike others who would just be kicked out of the system. Realize even with a pres. only 1/4th get in...You need that SAT to get up!

[Luigi59]

I don't count CG as military. Sorry. That's just me.

Ignorant. Completely ignorant.

[Exar Ganis]

Look, the whole WP fiasco is over with. I had the honor to look over my teacher's recs because it is part of our school policy that teachers show their students what they write, unless the voluntarily waive their rights. My English and science teachers maxed me out, but my math teacher murdered me. It's a lost cause.

[LineInTheSand]

Well now, I can sleep a little better at night, knowing the Men and Women of the US Armed Forces will be just that much safer.


From the way you used "Honor" there, it's pretty clear that concept is foreign to you.


Good luck in the private sector.

[Pima]

Well does this mean you will not finish your application?

I am surprised that you got to see the rec, because USAFA is an on-line situation. We had no idea what S's said. As a matter of fact we never saw any rec's even for college, because his univ. stated must be in a sealed envelope with sig.

Why would you ask a rec from a teacher that doesn't support you? Did you not have another teacher to ask?

Finally, if you intend to get a commission, I am sure your father would tell you that USCG is an integral part of our service and to be a success you will do a joint assignment. Last time I checked the USCG is also working out of the Pentagon. YOU OWE AN APOLOGY! Stand up and be a man. Prove that you would make an excellent officer. By not apologizing you are offending all of us. Line in the Sand, may never PCS out of the US, but he is doing an integral part. I lived in AK and know personally that when a plane goes down over the ocean, the USCG is out there involved with the SAR.
The USCG was involved with the National Guard for Katrina, or do you believe the Guard is military also?

[LineInTheSand]

Just for the education of all...the United States Coast Guard works overseas. There are 110' Island Class cutters currently operating in the Persian Gulf, as well as Port Security Units (PSUs) and Law Enforcement Detachments (LEDETS), who are assigned to US Navy vessels to conduct boardings. Petty Officer Nathan Bruckenthal was killed in the line of duty while serving IN THE COAST GUARD in the Gulf, receiving a bronze star, with valor, and a purple heart. You are welcome to tell his widow or his daughter that he wasn't in the Armed Forces, but don't be surprised if you have Coasties knocking at your door, because it is a close group. PO Bruckenthal worked for my old CO at TACLET South. From time to time a 378' cutter is in the Gulf, all part of Patrol Forces Southwest Asia (PATFORSWA).


The United States Coast Guard has participated in EVERY war the United States has been involved in since 1790. The Coast Guard Cutter (then Revenue Cutter) Harriet Lane fired the first Naval shot in the Civil War. The US Coast Guard lost the highest percentage of any branch of the US military in WWI, landed troops and Marines, provided escorts for ships and even had some members in the OSS in WWII. During Korea the Coast Guard lost pilots over the Korean P. In Vietnam the Coast Guard patrolled off of the coast and lost members including alumni from the USCGA (you might want to check a big black long wall in Washington DC to see the Coast Guard's contribution. During Desert Storm the Coast Guard provided PSUs and again manned US Navy ships with LEDETs.

These are all during war, but I'm not even covering the simultaneous peace time missions that the Coast Guard provides day in and day out. It's more than "I know because I saw the Guardian in theaters." Every day the Coast Guard stops alien migrants in the Florida Straits or Windward Pass. Every day someone is being plucked from the seas.

We do this and more, out of the spotlight, but what gets me, and my shipmates especially "excited" is when some little high school kid who wears a JROTC uniform (deserving or not), thinks his opinion matters, and wants to convey the how much of a fringe branch the US Coast Guard is.



If you want to read more about Petty Officer Bruckenthal, read his Memorial Trust site. He is a hero in the Coast Guard, and he's survived by his daughter. Try to minimize his sacrifice while you look at the picture of his daughter next to his headstone.

http://www.nathanbruckenthal.org/

[mom3boys]

EG, I thought you might be an idiot; now I am convinced. Who would ask a teacher to write a rec about a student they were not crazy about?? It could be a junior or senior year teacher for Army. Had you offended both of them??
I have told my kids for years and years that every day one makes choices that expand or limit future choices. Do not make choices today that will take away choices in the future. If you received this same advice from your parents, I believe you did not heed it. Your choices in behavior, attitude, and academics apparently took away some options. I am sorry. Maybe you will be able to make better choices going forward.

After getting the LOA from WP and USNA my son thanked my husband and me for constantly riding him and reminding him about the whole "choices" bit. He has tough choices ahead...but what great options to choose from. You need to step back, evaluate where you screwed up, commit to do better...life is not over because you won't get into WP...it's just going to be different. Live and learn. Humans are different from the apes because we learn from our mistakes. Don't be a monkey.

[Exar Ganis]

All my materials were sent except the math recommendation letter. He kept putting it off, and it sort of made everyone nervous. Finally, he finished, and gave it to me, and I was absolutely shocked. He said I'm too motivated by my grades.

[Pima]

To Line,
My apologies for my ignorance. I thought the USCGA guards national waters. Thank you for the important lesson.

To EG,
I am lost, you got a bad rec for being too motivated with grades. 2+2 is not equallying 4 here. Also I was under the assumption you Math SAT was not high enough, thus if your grades are good why the disparagy? (hi grades/low SAT) If your teacher is good than the grades are true and you comprehend the material. You obviously don't have testing issues SAT W 800

[Exar Ganis]

Pima, grades don't correlate with scores. They are entirely different things. I earned all A's in AP Calc.

And, yes that is what the teacher said. Vice Principal found out and was extremely pissed off because she thought it was unprofessional.

Guys, I'll be waiting in the chat room if you want to talk because I don't like having to post every few minutes.

- XR

[momoftwins]

EG,

Are you reading that the math teacher said you are motivated by grades? That's not bad and it's not murder. Many would consider it very appropriate for a goal-oriented young person.

However, if that's not *exactly* what was meant, perhaps there is something else that the math teacher said about you that would lead you to believe the "WP fiasco" is over. And that your chances were murdered.

[kgrmom]

All-

I do believe there is much to be read "between the lines" with EG's posts.

I'm not sure why he still he posts here other than to stir things up. He's so much smarter than the rest of us it's surely a waste of his time. Does not fail to take an opportunity to let us all know it either.

Completely sidestepped the the request to apologize to Line (which is absolutely deserved BTW). Last I checked Coast Guard was a MILITARY ACADEMY -regardless of what someone "thinks" it is.


kgrmom

[justawife]

Because the Coast Guard has the power to arrest people, it was not put under the defense department. It is now under the DHS, before that is was under Dept. of Commerce or Transportation. It is a constitutional issue. When my S did his overnight visit to CGA he said that many Navy ships have coasties on board because the have the power to arrest. The framers did not want the military to have too much power that could be abused, so hence our military can not arrest civilians. The CG has a ship in Gulf at all times right now and they have more volunteers than they need. If I remember correctly, during times of war CG officers can be transferred to the Navy and used as Naval Officers.

It is the military, the pay chart is the same, same rank, same crappy tricare and same military retirement. When my S had his Alternate appointment, he read up on it.

[zachogden]

Alright, time to lay this bad boy to rest (maybe). I got an email from EG yesterday, and here it is:


I'm assuming this means he thinks USCG is a military service now? Oh well. Let's not waste any more of our precious time with this young man.

[Exar Ganis]

Ogden,

Its part of being courteous to keep private messages, private. Had I wanted to publicize it, I would've done so.

XR

[jamzmom]

I have removed the private message sent from one member to another.

[LineInTheSand]

Good policy to follow....if you don't want people to find out about it, don't put it in print.

[LineInTheSand]

That's right, the Coast Guard has personnel deployed on Navy ships because the Coast Guard is exempt from posse comitatus.


Originally under the Dept. of Treasury, the Coast Guard transfered to the Dept. of Transportation in the '60s and is now under the Dept. of Homeland Security.


In a time of war, the Coast Guard CAN fall under the Dept of the Navy, however, that is not currently the case, no has it been for some time. That doesn't not mean the Coast Guard is not in theater now. There are a few cutters in the Gulf as we speak, working 'round the clock.

I will disagree with the AFA cadet, you can call for the banning of a person, especially if that person detracts, constantly, from the discussion. Of course, maybe he'll be more silent from now on, so we'll see.

[zachogden]

Ogden,

Its part of being courteous to keep private messages, private. Had I wanted to publicize it, I would've done so.

XR

My bad. I thought it would help smooth the thread over and maybe re-route it to the original subject. I didn't think there was anything in there you wouldn't want shared, won't happen again.