Semi-Good news

[Exar Ganis]

I got a call from my congressman today, and I had a short 30 minute interview. I'm not sure if they were trying to make me happy, but he told me it looks like I'm on the top 5 for West Point, but they didn't quite go through the process... They were very impressed with the fact I lived overseas military all my life. They asked one question though. "Is it about military heritage, and the pressure to go, or do you truly want to go?" I talked non-stop about how it was a perfect match for me.. from what I experienced.

[Just_A_Mom]

but they didn't quite go through the process...

not quite sure what you mean by this.

The rest sounds like great news for you. Excellent question for you by the way - It is important that you go for yourself and not for your family.

[Exar Ganis]

That's exactly what I mean. I don't know where he's coming from. He admitted that this was his first year doing this, and that there were other members of his board. When he said this, it could've been opinionated. He said that the interviews just started today. When I questioned him about the receipt of my Sat scores for November, he said they didn't go through those yet... so obviously, his opinion was judged only on my resume, and probably my transcript...

[Pima]

Congrats:smile:

Now go and get back to studying and raise that SAT. Remember the nom is only 1 part of the equation, you still need the other parts.

Never give up you don't know what might be down the road. (talking about how you thought the nom wouldn't come)

[Luigi59]

duplicate post

[Exar Ganis]

If I don't get that nomination, I think I'm going to apply ED II to one of my schools. They notified me that I will have to wait several weeks for official nominations to go out, and I only have till January 1 to do ED II. I want to at least feel secure that I can make it somewhere if USMA fails me...

[Just_A_Mom]

You are making me crazy........................

You HAVE a nomination. USMA has the legal authority to offer you an appointment if they so choose to.

So what does getting a congressional nomination do for you?

[LineInTheSand]

I thought he didn't have a nomination...

[Pima]

EG,

JAM is right, you have a nom. A presidential isn't counted differently than an MOC. I hope you realize ED is different than EA. I am pretty sure that most colleges have past their EA date. So why are you waiting to apply for ED?

[mom3boys]

How can USMA fail you? I thought they were waiting for you to meet their standard?

[Luigi59]

So what does getting a congressional nomination do for you?

JAM is right, you have a nom. A presidential isn't counted differently than an MOC.

I thought a MOC nomination would allow him to compete in a different, smaller pool of applicants (only from that Congressional district, 10 for each opening) then he would if he only had a Presidential nom, which has a huge pool (nationwide, unlimited numbers).

:confused:

[Pima]

Yes you are right, but what I meant by my statement is that EG has a nomination, unlike others who have to rely on an MOC or VP

[Just_A_Mom]

He has a presidential - father's in the Army.

This is confusing - on the one hand we tell kids with presidentials to pursue congressionals and on the other hand we tell them a nomination is a nomination.

First keep in mind - the academy wants the best class possible and they try hard to get that.
So - say you are in that group that makes up "the best class possible" - they need the legal authority to appoint you - through a nomination.
"Easiest" way is to be the top pick on your MOC's slate. These kids get in as long as they are 3 q'd.

With a presidential - the academy can only appoint 100. About 400 apply. So you need to be a top presidential. Keep in mind some of these 400 will not be 3 q'd and some will get appointments through their MOC's.

After the MOC's are filled the academy goes to the NWL (national waiting list) and will appoint others with nomintation - those who got a congressional but were not the "top pick" can get appointments.

So, obviously, the more "pools" you are in and can be chosen out of the easier it is for the academy to offer you an appointment if they so choose.

In EG's case, he has a nomination - a presidential. If he were to get a Congressional and be the top pick in his district - that's a no-brainer. He gets an appointment and doesn't use the presidential.

Without a Congressional nomination, it is not the end of the world. The important thing to remember is - if he falls into that group that the academy deems is part of the "best possible class" he still has a nomination.

[Just_A_Mom]

EG - one more thing....

Aren't you in JROTC? Did you apply for a ROTC nomination as well?

[usna1985]

If I don't get that nomination, I think I'm going to apply ED II to one of my schools.

It is always smart to have a backup plan no matter how qualified you are. Things can happen -- like breaking your leg in the spring. I'm not an expert on civilian college admissions but, if there is no commitment required on your part until the spring, I think it is prudent to complete one or more civilian applications.

They notified me that I will have to wait several weeks for official nominations to go out, and I only have till January 1 to do ED II.

If you have a Presidential nom and/or are told my a MOC that you have the nom, I think you can count on it even if you don't have it on paper. I'm not aware of anyone ever being told he/she has a nom and then having it fall through (although I'm sure it's probably happened at least once).

I want to at least feel secure that I can make it somewhere if USMA fails me...

Again, you should have a backup plan. Even highly qualified candidates may not receive an appointment for various reasons. Assuming most of them do want to attend college, a backup plan is a must. No one should assume he/she has an appointment until the letter is received and, even then, things can happen (usually medical).

[kgrmom]

If I don't get that nomination, I think I'm going to apply ED II to one of my schools. They notified me that I will have to wait several weeks for official nominations to go out, and I only have till January 1 to do ED II. I want to at least feel secure that I can make it somewhere if USMA fails me...

Just a comment on following ED guidelines for "regular schools". Most of the time this means withdrawing your applications to other colleges- that would include USNA/USMA. My D had to consider this as well as it involved giving up a scholarship to one of her schools. Early Decision and Early Action are different treated very differently so read the fine print carefully. Might be best to apply under a regular decision and just send in your application early. That's what we ended up doing so we aren't bound by the ED guidelines.

[Just_A_Mom]

Just a comment on following ED guidelines for "regular schools". Most of the time this means withdrawing your applications to other colleges- that would include USNA/USMA.

I don't know why this would be - the SA's are different. If the ED school found out you were being considered for an appointment they might not be too happy - but they won't be going to Beast and dragging you out of your bunk.
I am not a fan of ED anyway - nothing but a scam, IMO, but that is a topic of another conversation.

I look at an appointment to an SA as a military assignment - you are on Active Duty, assigned to study at USXA.

[Exar Ganis]

I see. One of the schools I was thinking about doing ED to has only 14 4 year army ROTC scholarships, and the PMS told me there were 118 applicants. He also said by applying ED it would probably boost your chances in getting one of these. Worst case scenario: if I applied ED, and didn't get one of these scholarships, I would have the right to drop the ED agreement because my family would clearly not be able to pay that ridiculous 50,000 dollar annual tuition/room and board

[Exar Ganis]

Basically.. college admissions is a gamble. I want West Point, but then again, I don't want to loose both West Point and my chances for an ROTC scholarship.

[Exar Ganis]

With regards to your nomination, I am at liberty only to tell you that Presidential nominations are still be handed out. Nominations from ****** will likely be sent out in a few weeks. Sorry, wish I could tell you more.

-Patterson
1

[Pima]

EG

ED means early decision, the results come out in FEB. It is not the same as EA. EA was due back in OCT/NOV. EA= early action. This is where you promise if they accept you, you will go there. Many people had to apply ED to be eligible for financial aid. UMD, UMiami and NYU required Part I common apps to be completed back in Nov. UMD required part II for Dec.1. if you wanted an answer by Feb and qual for selective schools, scholarships, etc. Now you need to go back and see if it is ED or EA. You owe no oblig for ED

[Just_A_Mom]

With regards to your nomination, I am at liberty only to tell you that Presidential nominations are still be handed out. Nominations from ****** will likely be sent out in a few weeks. Sorry, wish I could tell you more.

-Patterson


Who is this from? MOC? very confusing.

[Pima]

My bad on prev. info, UMD and NYU call ED as non-binding like I said in the earlier post, UMiami call it EA as non-binding and ED as binding.

[Exar Ganis]

It wasn't the MOC. It was some business guy who was called in to take care of the West Point side of the applicants. They had some local constituents in their district come together to decide who was eligible. I think thats what they did.

I checked. It is ED II, binding. Is it a widespread practice to make financial aid eligibility based on ED?

[Just_A_Mom]

Did you apply for and receive a presidential nomination?

[Pima]

Couldn't answer that, we did not do any binding apps. We only did non-binding, but for all of his schools the common app part II had to be finished by certain dates for financial aid

[Pima]

It is also common for MOC's to have a committee of people from within the community

[Just_A_Mom]

Is it a widespread practice to make financial aid eligibility based on ED?

yes.

[momoftwins]

EG,

If you apply to any civilian schools with any kind of binding agreement, - no matter what it is called - you will be required to accept the admission if it is offered. You will be required to withdraw all other applications immediately. That would mean you could not attend West Point.

The school knows that you understand that financial aid is not automatic therefore it should not be an issue. You and your family will be required to pay the tuition for you to attend the ED/EA/ school. This is part of the reason binding ED/EA programs are slowly being dropped. They work for students who know that they can pay the tuition, no matter what.

It's a big deal - don't take the binding agreements lightly.

[Soylent]

EG

ED means early decision, the results come out in FEB. It is not the same as EA. EA was due back in OCT/NOV. EA= early action. This is where you promise if they accept you, you will go there. Many people had to apply ED to be eligible for financial aid. UMD, UMiami and NYU required Part I common apps to be completed back in Nov. UMD required part II for Dec.1. if you wanted an answer by Feb and qual for selective schools, scholarships, etc. Now you need to go back and see if it is ED or EA. You owe no oblig for ED

I believe you have your terminology backwards. Early Decision is a binding contract that you sign, agreeing that if you are accepted (usually Mid-December) you will go to that school. Early Action is where you are not obligated to go to that school.

Early Decision II requires the same obligation as regular Early Decision, but the deadline is later (rather than Oct-Nov).

[kgrmom]

I checked. It is ED II, binding. Is it a widespread practice to make financial aid eligibility based on ED?

Always good to look at the "fine print". In my D's case it was an actual scholarship that hinged on the ED application. Not sure about any other financial aid. How far the colleges are willing to go to enforce these binding agreements I'm not sure... anyone else know? I know in one admission seminar we were at the admission counselor joked about there not actually being any "Early Decision Police Depts" out there :confused:

[Exar Ganis]

You and your family will be required to pay the tuition for you to attend the ED/EA/ school.

According to the contract, it says if you do not have the money, you may break the agreement. Anyway, is there a way they can enforce ED? I don't see anything that requires you to go by law. It DOES say that you will break the spirit of ED, but thats about it.

[THURL]

According to the contract, it says if you do not have the money, you may break the agreement. Anyway, is there a way they can enforce ED? I don't see anything that requires you to go by law. It DOES say that you will break the spirit of ED, but thats about it.


I read into it that your breaking your commitment. Why not just apply RD as previously suggested. That way you can hold to the principles JORTC has taught you.

[subskipper]

If you have a nomination from another source, such as a Presidential nomination, the USNA will still want you to apply for a nomination from a MOC. If you can get one, they can use the Presidential nomination for somebody else. It's another way they can shape the composition of the incoming class. If they really want you they'll be super happy if you can score a nomination from a MOC.

:smile:

[Exar Ganis]

One reason why ED is a disaster:

ARMY ROTC is more likely going to give a scholarship to an ED applicant because they know that they will have that individual secure for their quota. ED is harmful and should be abolished :mad:

I applied RD. Made up my mind. If I don't get in anywhere, I'll just be screwed :biggrin:

[momoftwins]

[QUOTE=Exar Ganis;13916]One reason why ED is a disaster:

ARMY ROTC is more likely going to give a scholarship to an ED applicant because they know that they will have that individual secure for their quota. ED is harmful and should be abolished :mad:

ED is just an option that some students may choose because it's the best one for them. Abolishing it would take that option away. It also is a tool that helps schools see students who are passionately committed to attending one particular college.

[Soylent]

Apply to a cheap safety school so that you can go to if all else fails. If cost is an issue then your situation living overseas is a bit of a downfall. It may be difficult to get in-state tuition, but it is definitely worth it to apply to a decent state school that you KNOW you can get into and get that cheap tuition.

As far as breaking an ED commitment, I am not sure how that is tracked or if it is tracked at all, but I have heard that it will be quite difficult getting into any law school with that on your record. ED is a great opportunity for kids who have been dreaming to go to a certain school for years (like the service academies for us).

[Just_A_Mom]

One of the schools I was thinking about doing ED to has only 14 4 year army ROTC scholarships, and the PMS told me there were 118 applicants. He also said by applying ED it would probably boost your chances in getting one of these.


Back to post #18 --- I don't see how applying will boost your chance at getting one of the 14 4 year AROTC scholarship. The PMS is free to offer you the scholarship - even before you apply.
My daughter was offered her scholarship before she applied - of course it was contingent on her being accepted.

There is no reason to apply ED to get a scholarship. Now if you didn't get accepted that might be a problem.......

[Pima]

ED has been around for decades. There are students who have their dream college, and want to know quickly. Why go through all of the hassles of applying to 5, 6 or even 10 if you get an ans from your dream college before the others are even due.

If you had all of your paperwork with a nom into the acad, and was considered compet. by Oct/Nov you would have an answer right now. So would anyone go and do another 9 apps, doubtful, 2 more just in case of injuries for backup probably!

[usna1985]

If you had all of your paperwork with a nom into the acad, and was considered compet. by Oct/Nov you would have an answer right now.

Not necessarily. First, the admissions boards review records on a rolling basis and, if the packet was submitted in Novermber, may not have "rolled around" to it yet. Also, sometimes, the admissions board can't decide whether a candidate is academically qualified and "defers" that candidate for further consideration. The decision may be helped by seeing more candidate packets (to have a greater basis for comparison) and/or seeing new SAT scores, first semester grades, new CFA scores, etc.

And, with just a Presidential nom at this point (which, as of right now, is all most people have as the MOC noms are generally just being announced), the SAs aren't likely to give you an appointment this early absent an LOA. Not sure how many of these USMA or USAFA hands out, but USNA gives very few.

So would anyone go and do another 9 apps, doubtful, 2 more just in case of injuries for backup probably!

Yes, for many reasons. Some people may not be totally sure they want to attend a SA (in all honesty, I wasn't at this point in my senior year). They may not know which civilian school they are most interested in. It's a very competitive landscape and people may want to try for a couple of "reach" schools, a couple of "safety" schools and a handful in the middle. It can add up. These days, very few competitive colleges and universities are "sure things" for anyone.

[Pima]

USNA, I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that if the SA is your 1st choice (like EA for univ.) You could have done your paperwork and applied back in Oct/Nov... and if (like ED for univ) you are selected b4 the reg. selection (as in a univ sit) would you go out and apply for 9 more univ.

My point was to comp SA to a univ EA. If you ask for EA/ED than that is your dream, no one should put themselves into a binding sit. unless they plan to fulfill the committment.

[usna1985]

^^^^^

My mistake. I did misunderstand. And you're right about ED being binding. I "lost" a great candidate to Cornell a couple of years ago b/c he applied ED and felt he had to honor his commitment when he was accepted. So it goes.

[Soylent]

Back to post #18 --- I don't see how applying will boost your chance at getting one of the 14 4 year AROTC scholarship. The PMS is free to offer you the scholarship - even before you apply.
My daughter was offered her scholarship before she applied - of course it was contingent on her being accepted.

There is no reason to apply ED to get a scholarship. Now if you didn't get accepted that might be a problem.......

I know that when I received a letter from Duke, they wanted me to send a form back stating my intent to accept their scholarship and if I was going to apply ED. Because you have better chances of acceptance when applying ED, the PMS may not want to waste an offer during that round to someone who may not get in and may prefer an ED applicant. Applying ED to a school also shows a commitment, so there is a lesser chance that the student will later reject that scholarship for another school's.

*The above is only my theory, and may very well not be policy*

Whether you applied Early Decision to a school may affect the PMS's decision to select you for a scholarship during the first round of offers, but I doubt that it would matter for later scholarship rounds.