What is the $$$ Value of the appointment to an Academy

[FlyBoy1993]

(Disclaimer: I don't know if this belongs in this forum, so mods, please move if it should go in off-topic. I just thought a lot of folks might relate to this in this section)

So a few nights ago, our DS's high school recognized the Seniors who have received scholarships, achieved high scholastic results, and/ or enlisted in the military. The first young man to have enlisted was a Marine signee and the USMC recruiter goes to the podium , says a short schpiel about the new Devil pup and closes with, "We are very proud to offer $100k towards this Marine's education."

A few students later, the recruiter says his thing, and closes with " The Marine Corps is very proud to offer $110k towards this young man's education." Half way through the students, the Navy representative takes the podium, says a few words, looks back over his shoulder at the seated Marine Recruiter, and proudly claims $180k towards an enlistee's education.

Then our DS's MALO went up and announced his commitment to West Point without ever dropping a dollar figure. 1) I thought it reflected very well that he didn't engage in the apparent military one-up's-manship 2) It didn't kill the glory for the other kids or donors.

I thought it was funny, especially as a former Marine, that the rivalry permeated the stage without taking away from the kids that had made those commitments. I always assumed each branch paid the same, with regard to general pay and GI Bill for school. Is that not true?

i have also heard many different figures on the value of an appointment and subsequent completion of 4 years at an academy, ranging from "free- LOL" to around $800k. What is that dollar value associated with an appointment?

[time2]

As often as this gets asked, the real answer is still there is no exact 'value' you can apply to an appointment to any of the military academies. Since no one pays any 'tuition'....and an appointment isn't a 'scholarship', you can begin to understanad why this isn't an easy thing to determine.

Sometimes, they will divide their annual budget by the total enrollment which gives you some kind of 'operating cost per student'.

However, since the figure isn't really used anywhere other than at a h.s. graduation, it will continue to be something that a lot of people talk about, but for which there is no real answer. Since most aren't even familiar with military academies, talking about the finer points of what an 'appointment' means is really a longer discussion then there is time for during h.s. graduation ceremonies.

[Packer]

At my son's HS awards banquet the CG representative used the $400k figure in presenting my son's appointment.

[AF6872]

Buy a nice vacation home with the saved $$$:biggrin:

[USNA2016Dad]

Buy a nice vacation home with the saved $$$:biggrin:
If my wife could have her way, she'd buy a second home across the street from gate 3 in Annapolis.
Cheers...

[greeneagle5]

Whatever the actual cost....My Firstie swears that the NAVY recovered his education expenses one nickel at a time from a posterior location, (especially during plebe year):shake:

[SnerdlyBosco]

Pretty sure the Coast Guard Academy is the only US service academy to offer paid admission (to international students). They list the cost at $71,349 per year.

http://www.uscga.edu/admissions2.aspx?id=77

[MemberLG]

Pretty sure the Coast Guard Academy is the only US service academy to offer paid admission (to international students). They list the cost at $71,349 per year.

http://www.uscga.edu/admissions2.aspx?id=77

Same for the West Point, not sure about exact price. Didn't check the link, but for West Point many countries receive wavier on the cost.

[AF6872]

USNR1315:

I threatened to rent (not buy) one at Three or one of the appartments overlooking Gate One on the walk out. Just like MacArthur's mom did at the Thayer for his four years at West Point. :yllol:
Even as a joke it was frowned upon by the Mid. Forget about the $$$ value. Any appointment is, as they say, priceless. Especially if you have two others in tuition schools.

[rotorhd]

On one occasion, I saw a large styrofoam check, with six figures (starting with a 4) dragged out and presented to the appointee at the HS awards ceremony. While it's great (and appropriate) to recognize the achievement, attaching a value to it reeks of elitism.

1) There are far more appropriate (and classier) ways to recognize appointees.
2) There are a lot of other kids out there not going to a SA that are destined for great things.

[usna1985]

At one of the schools at which I present, the ROTC folks bring a huge "check." Nice for pictures but . . . :rolleyes:

Giving a value can "backfire." Several years ago, I was making presentations along with the USMA and USAFA reps. I ended up going last of the three. The USMA and USAFA guys each gave dollar values for their appointments, both of which were higher than the value suggested by USNA.

So, I got up and went through my spiel. When I came to the dollar value, I said what it was, then added: That's the Naval Academy -- always doing more with less. It got a huge laugh.

I also learned my lesson that day. Now when I present, I typically say that the appointee is receiving the equivalent of a full tuition scholarship with room and board, medical, etc. as well as a montly salary. If I'm feeling inspired, I may add, "And all of you parents know how much that's worth." It goes over better.

[AF6872]

And any parent with a mind and a Mid knows what an appointment and acceptance is worth. Especially if they have two other siblings in tuition schools. But the Check does look nice even though they don't get to cash it.

[MIDNDAD]

As a parent I've seen this topic pop up this time of year for several years. As all the previous posters have stated there is no exact vlaue but when comparing to a traditional university education one can not forget the summer blocks that all our Mids took part in. How does one calculate the "value " of spending days or weeks training on a fast attack boat, flying an aircraft, or taking a leasurey 10 mile stroll thru the woods of Quantico? It's all part of the cost of the USNA experience that is just different. $400K is my best guess.

On the flip side I found out from my former Mid that that they have fun with the incomming plebes as to what plebe parents bought and replaced their plebes with. The favorite things seem to be big screen TV's, cars, and "redecorating the house. In our case it was a new living room set for my wife and a big screen for me. My former Mid still laughs that they brought a plebe to tears when they got the plebe to realize that mom and dad replaced her with a puppy. Ah the mind games those Firstys learn to play!

Those were easy days durring those 4 years. Now we wait for our 2nd LT to arrive at Pendleton for her first duty assignment and see if a tour in Afganistan is in her future. Life is interesting.

[buff81]

The guidance that USMA presenters are given is that it is a $288,000 academic scholarship. This figure is lower than in the past where you would hear a figure in the $400,000 range. This higher figure includes the cost of military training. A few years ago, WP decided to use the academic scholarship value in the awards presentations.

[AF6872]

MIDNDAD:

Ten mile stroll through Quantico. Loved that. Especially at night and meeting every tree and stream in the forest. Hope she gets permanent duty CONUS and no deployment. It does get interesting. I now know how my parents felt. Not fun.

[SimpleMan]

My MALO came to my HS and made a presentation of my USMA Appointment during our senior awards night. He gave a very nice and compelling overview of what attendance at West Point meant, and did mention during it that the value of the education "goes well beyond the $300,000 scholarship value that the education entails." He also remarked that I can expect to be made to earn every cent of it, and then some. This brought a big laugh from the crowd. And tears from my Mom in the front row.

[1964BGO]

This is a difficult question, and recently values in the upper 400K range were being quoted. I think all of the BGOs, ALOs, et al, are a bit hesitant to quote a value directly; as someone who put two kids through upper echelon colleges, I tend towards "...roughly equivalent to a four year program at a really fine private school plus medical, dental, room and board, plus $900 per month..." It got to the point where I felt like the 5 ton gorilla sitting in the corner at the awards ceremony where most of the scholarships were in the $500 to $1000 range - it seemed to demean the kids who worked hard to get the typical scholarships. Besides, there are too many ways to determine the value of the appointments to be too definitive. Accept that they are very valuable.

[bruno]

At one of the schools at which I present, the ROTC folks bring a huge "check." Nice for pictures but . . . :rolleyes:

Giving a value can "backfire." Several years ago, I was making presentations along with the USMA and USAFA reps. I ended up going last of the three. The USMA and USAFA guys each gave dollar values for their appointments, both of which were higher than the value suggested by USNA.

So, I got up and went through my spiel. When I came to the dollar value, I said what it was, then added: That's the Naval Academy -- always doing more with less. It got a huge laugh.

I also learned my lesson that day. Now when I present, I typically say that the appointee is receiving the equivalent of a full tuition scholarship with room and board, medical, etc. as well as a montly salary. If I'm feeling inspired, I may add, "And all of you parents know how much that's worth." It goes over better.
That's a nicely worded presentation line:thumb: - IMHO those big numbers are a double edged sword that at some point the Service Academies will regret if they keep publicizing them while everyone is going thru cost reduction gyrations. (and they aren't really true: for one they are only arrived at by simple math that isn't really true (total costs of the Academy /x number of students- but most of those military personnel aren't going away if you closed the school etc... no Civilian college calculates the value of a full ride that way. And of course it has an obligation so it's not exactly free is it?). They are indeed very valuable and the kids worked extremely hard to receive them- that should be the emphasis.

[Lynpar]

Senior award night was the very best Super-Shallow-Mom-Victory-Lap-Moment of my life! I sat there quietly clutching my tissue in my hand. However :wink:in my mind I was taking a lap and highfiving every one as I went by. Good times.

[LineInTheSand]

At one of the schools at which I present, the ROTC folks bring a huge "check." Nice for pictures but . . . :rolleyes:



Yeah.... I don't know about that. How'd they sign it "The American Taxpayer?"

[usna1985]

One of the difficulties in selecting a number is whether to include the "training" component, such as summer training, YP or sailing, pistol and rifle, etc. Those things all cost money and yet people at a regular college probably wouldn't even want to do that stuff.:smile: So, do you end up mixing apples and oranges?

Payback for those who are forced out for honor/conduct or quit voluntarily after signing the 2 for 7 document is about $150k for 4 yrs. I believe that basically covers the "educational" aspects.

The numbers game also tends to create its own issues. I've related before the story of one year at an awards ceremony when the ALO (who went first) gave a number of $300,000 for a USAFA education. USNA had given us something like $230k. So, I stood up, gave our number, and added: "That's the Navy -- always doing more with less." Got a huge laugh.

So, most BGOs/ALOs/MALOs like to use some version of the general language cited above -- it gets the point across without getting into the mess that raw numbers can create.

[EDelahanty]

At one of the schools at which I present, the ROTC folks bring a huge "check." Nice for pictures but . . . :rolleyes:

Giving a value can "backfire." Several years ago, I was making presentations along with the USMA and USAFA reps. I ended up going last of the three. The USMA and USAFA guys each gave dollar values for their appointments, both of which were higher than the value suggested by USNA.

So, I got up and went through my spiel. When I came to the dollar value, I said what it was, then added: That's the Naval Academy -- always doing more with less. It got a huge laugh.

I also learned my lesson that day. Now when I present, I typically say that the appointee is receiving the equivalent of a full tuition scholarship with room and board, medical, etc. as well as a montly salary. If I'm feeling inspired, I may add, "And all of you parents know how much that's worth." It goes over better.

I applaud your approach. The styrofoam check with the humongous number may be dramatic in a Happy Gilmore way but it detracts from the gravity of the commitment both parties are making to each other.

[Jcleppe]

We didn't have to worry about the Values or the Big Check. My son's high school does have a Senior Awards night but they do not announce any scholarships, they list the scholarships students receive in the graduation program but do not list values.

Both my son's were happy with this, neither felt like they would be comfortable standing up holding a big cardboard check. That of course did not deter them from telling everyone they knew what the scholarship covered and what the commitment was.

I agree with Edelahanty, the big check tells only half the story, it doesn't explain the hard work and commitment these cadets will need to earn that big check.

[Whistle Pig]

This is one we will literally never know. Why? Because it would become a massive bone of contention. Our government does not WANT us to know about such things where there is vested interest among many there in to maintain ignorance and secrecy.

Have you ever seen a REAL figure on what it costs taxpayers for each MOC, Senator, cabinet slot, agency, etc. Of course not.

And while it might be a nice bragging point for parents, appointees, and schools wanting to pad the "scholarship" number, we will literally never, ever know the real price. Be assured, it is MASSIVE! Far greater than any number we've ever been given.

[flieger83]

WP,

I will respectfully disagree with you.

I went to a rather involved meeting at USAFA several years ago and this question was one of the discussion items. The AF had the figures broken out to the dollar: how much the cost to operate the academy was, food, water, utilities, paychecks, medical, dental, etc...etc...etc...they even figured the cost of the AF members (faculty, security forces, janitorial, etc...etc...).

The listing went for far too many pages than most of us wanted to see. But at the end, they came up with a number in the "slightly over $400k per cadet" range. Now mind you, that was about 6 years ago so I'm sure it's gone up a bit.

But it gave us a "total, overall cost of operation" for a cadet per year.

Now...if you simply want the cost of education...the AF will bill a former cadet in the $130k-$160k range if things get ugly.

But I don't think there's any interest at all in keeping this "secret."

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

[USMA2020]

USNR1315:

I threatened to rent (not buy) one at Three or one of the appartments overlooking Gate One on the walk out. Just like MacArthur's mom did at the Thayer for his four years at West Point. :yllol:
Even as a joke it was frowned upon by the Mid. Forget about the $$$ value. Any appointment is, as they say, priceless. Especially if you have two others in tuition schools.
I probably shouldn't even be on this section, but I am trying to be nice and try to see things from my mom's POV. My mom has been wanting to have B&B, and if I get into USMA I wouldn't put it past her to open one in NY.

Ashleigh

[USMA2020]

I have wondered this myself. As I said I probably shouldn't be on this forum, but as I said... I would love to know, but I would agree that it is priceless.

[John41057]

Hi
This is the one aspect I have not enjoyed. Since my DS accepted his appointment, every time he wants something and I mention the cost. He just says, "but dad I just saved you over $400,000). It is killing my budget!! :wink:
Regards
John

[USMA2020]

Hi
This is the one aspect I have not enjoyed. Since my DS accepted his appointment, every time he wants something and I mention the cost. He just says, "but dad I just saved you over $400,000). It is killing my budget!! :wink:
Regards
John
I will have to remember that line for my parents. Although I think they planned on me getting scholarships to get through college.

[John41057]

I keep reminding him that community college is much less while living at home.:yllol:
Regards
John

[USMA2020]

I keep reminding him that community college is much less while living at home.:yllol:
Regards
John
LOL. Sounds like something my parents would do. As a Gamecock fan, ever since I was in early elementary school, I had planned to go to the University of South Carolina. To tell you how close that is, we pass parts of it multiple times each week. So especially with scholarships there would be almost no cost for my parents. No trips to my college and back home for me, nothing. And of course, I don't think anyway bought into my Harvard thoughts that I had once. I guess I did turn everything upside down. :)