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scoutpilot
4th September 2012, 07:48 PM
Dont know how many other FFRs have received this, but this just came over the transom from Admissions. These are BIG changes.

Update on Class of 2017

• Target size for the class of 2017 is 1200 new cadets.

• We are eliminating rolling admissions. The majority of the class will receive their offers of admission on or about 26 February. Each offered candidate will have 45 days to accept or decline their offer.

• USMAPS cadet candidates will not receive their offers until after 1 May upon receipt of their April SAT scores and 3rd quarter grades. Bottom 10% of USMAPS class will be reviewed for an offer of admission no earlier than 10 May to ensure 4th quarter grades are included in the admissions file.

• The Letter of Assurance (LOA) was developed as a tool to encourage candidates to complete their files early. Most cohorts are completing their files early – and the LOA has no longer been an effective tool for managing the class. Due to the competitiveness of recent classes and the high acceptance rates, we are sending LOAs to only a small cohort of candidates – those in the areas where we struggle to achieve our Class Composition Goals.

• We will institute a Letter of Encouragement for highly competitive candidates so they can schedule an overnight visit if they wish to do so. The Letter of Encouragement (LOE) is not a conditional offer of admission, but conveys our interest to the candidates.

dlee96
4th September 2012, 09:48 PM
i guess this means that receiving an appointment is going to get even more competitive...sigh

EagleScout13
4th September 2012, 10:09 PM
Does anyone have previous class statistics? Is 1200 a good number, it seems pretty high to me?

scoutpilot
4th September 2012, 10:16 PM
Does anyone have previous class statistics? Is 1200 a good number, it seems pretty high to me?

If they stick to it, 1200 will be the lowest in 5 years.

BigNick
4th September 2012, 10:39 PM
I got the exact same information from West Point as ScoutPilot. That information is "official".
1. The class size of 1200 for 2017 is about what has been predicted. That is not a super major change from the past few years (Class of 2015 was about 1250). I think 2016 was a few less.
2. These changes will not make it harder or easier to get in WP. The changes do mean that the most outstanding candidates will not get an early offer (before 26 Feb).
3. People in the "difficult" areas to recruite (minorities and women) will probably get more special consideration than in the past.
4. Completing your file early will not be the the advantage it has been in the past. However, I would still advise that you complete your file by November 1.This will make a good impression on the WP Admissions people and probably help you get a nomination.

In general this is no big change for candidates - just keep completing and improving your file.

EagleScout13
4th September 2012, 10:41 PM
Maybe I thought it was high because I have been reading some posts in the air force forum about a class size of 1050 or so. Well it is what it is. Thank you for this information.

MemberLG
4th September 2012, 10:54 PM
i guess this means that receiving an appointment is going to get even more competitive...sigh

for most, not really. The population that's impacted most by a smaller class size is the applicants on the national waiting list or candidates that did not win their appointment category. There are odd years, but at least for MD, competitiveness within a MOC has been consistent. So unless you have an odd year and your Congressional district is supercompetitive, your competition shouldn't change too much. Remember, it's not the best 1200, rather 1200 out whatever # end up being fully qualified.

dlee96
4th September 2012, 10:55 PM
To any FFRs:
After reading some threads I have come to the conclusion that East-asians (Chinese,Koreans) are NOT MINORITIES/URMs. However, according to recent race percentages, Asians are the lowest ethnic group. Why is this?

Thanks MemberLG and BigNick for the clearup +1

TCUSMA2016
4th September 2012, 11:11 PM
According to our Parent breifing on R-Day the Class of 2016 had approx 1180 report that day. Good Luck to all 2017 Applicants

tug_boat
4th September 2012, 11:40 PM
I feel the rolling admissions was out dated. When you look at the many qualified application received, selecting the best class comp is important for the military to reflect todays diverse demographics to represent our values and country. If one is serious about wanting to attend a service academy, they must show their dedication. I feel it is important to diverse ones resume as much as possible. Don't rely on getting an appointment out of high school, it is a small percentage of the class comp. Look at private or public prep academies. Seek an AOG scholarship or other scholarship to attend this important path to prepare. You can attend these prep academies either sponsored or as an independent. Be careful attended a four year school, there are many distraction and much more difficult to retain a high GPA. Had a motivated applicate once and his grades dropped and did not qualify.

USAFA class size is close to 950 after BCT.

armydaughter
4th September 2012, 11:46 PM
scoutpilot,

Thanks for this. We attended an event hosted by our FFR just this weekend and he clearly did not have this information.

Ken2012
4th September 2012, 11:46 PM
Are there any changes regarding final deadlines? The Portal states Feb 28 quite frequently, which seems well past when the appointments will be sent out. I plan to finish as soon as I can get my college transcripts, of course, but it would be good to know the final date.

MemberLG
5th September 2012, 12:31 AM
To any FFRs:
After reading some threads I have come to the conclusion that East-asians (Chinese,Koreans) are NOT MINORITIES/URMs. However, according to recent race percentages, Asians are the lowest ethnic group. Why is this?



The percentage is relative to the national percentage and East-Asians are a subset of Asians.

According to Wiki for 2008, 4.4% of U.S population is Asians. Lazy to look up but I am pretty sure the precentage of "Asian" cadets at West Point is higher than 4.4%.

scoutpilot
5th September 2012, 01:27 AM
scoutpilot,

Thanks for this. We attended an event hosted by our FFR just this weekend and he clearly did not have this information.

Not a failing on his part. I only received it today.

R.Martin95
5th September 2012, 02:24 AM
Thanks so much for this post. I'll stop hoping for a LoA and start worrying about the end of February XD

Any idea on the timeline for the LoE's, though? I only ask because I'd like to be able to coordinate with the practices of my sport, and visit while they are in season.

GoArmyBeatNavy
6th September 2012, 03:47 AM
To any FFRs:
After reading some threads I have come to the conclusion that East-asians (Chinese,Koreans) are NOT MINORITIES/URMs. However, according to recent race percentages, Asians are the lowest ethnic group. Why is this?

Thanks MemberLG and BigNick for the clearup +1

Not sure if you were answered or not.

I believe West Point establishes it under-represented minorities composition goals based on the minority population percentages of the US Army; not the nation.

I am pretty sure West Point is not saying that Asians are not a minority, just not an "under-represented" minority.

I am not stating this for a debate about the merits of this policy, just providing information to inform. I am pretty sure moderators would prefer any debate about this be taking to other portions of the forum.

Good luck candidates!

jrangitsch
6th September 2012, 01:31 PM
To reply to a couple of questions in this thread...East Asians are not considered a "minority" in the Army's eyes as the percentage of East Asians in the Army (Officers, NCOs and Enlisted) are in line with the general population of America - thus there is no motivation to "bring up the numbers".

The rolling admissions process was used in the past to urge candidates to commit early - but - that was in an environment where all the Academies Admissions teams were struggling to get qualified candidates to commit to a service academy against a strong economy, lots of options after graduation, lots of scholarship $$ available to qualified candidates and graduating high school seniors being courted by top end colleges. Things have changed. Scholarship $$ have dried up, state funded $$ for college have taken a major hit, and as we all have observed, the economy isn't in the best of health - which has driven a lot of students who would have not considered a Service Academy as an option to now compete.

Additionally, the other major Academies - AF and Navy in particular moved to the model of making "all" offers in Feb / March....

A lot of the candidates for USMA admission consider multiple Academies... and usually get multiple nominations -which means that even though an offer may have been extended from USMA to a qualified candidate, that candidate was sitting on the offer to see whether or not they would get an offer from another Academy which was possibly their actual first choice. Thus - this in essence "tied up" that slot until Feb / March anyway.

jrangitsch
6th September 2012, 01:39 PM
Are there any changes regarding final deadlines? The Portal states Feb 28 quite frequently, which seems well past when the appointments will be sent out. I plan to finish as soon as I can get my college transcripts, of course, but it would be good to know the final date.

USMA does state Feb 28 as the deadline, but they really look at the dedication of the candidate. Getting your file completed as early as possible shows your determination to join the Corps. As you have seen, the decision making will occur MUCH earlier than the deadline. A line has to be drawn - and that has historically been the cut off - but simply making the deadline does NOT show determination and commitment.

tug_boat
6th September 2012, 11:05 PM
My DS is applying for the second time. After being QNS last year, he received a sponsorship directly from admissions to attend a prep school to polish him up. His program or second semester will not finish by the dead line. Given the fact WP invested in him, they will wait. He understands this is the exception and not the norm but WP does show heart for those who work hard for their goals and want to dedicate themselves.

Ken2012
7th September 2012, 01:09 AM
USMA does state Feb 28 as the deadline, but they really look at the dedication of the candidate. Getting your file completed as early as possible shows your determination to join the Corps. As you have seen, the decision making will occur MUCH earlier than the deadline. A line has to be drawn - and that has historically been the cut off - but simply making the deadline does NOT show determination and commitment.

Of course sir, I do intend to finish well ahead of that, I just wanted to be sure in case it was significantly pushed back.

another13mom
7th September 2012, 01:26 AM
Ken2012, yeah my read is take your time to get the best CFA score, the highest SAT scores, etc. If they're not making decisions until late fall or early winter, then unlike prior years where truly interested candidates finished everything by late June/early July, there's certainly no rush now.

buff81
7th September 2012, 01:58 AM
Even though rolling admissions and LOAs have been taken out of the picture, there are still some very good reasons to complete your file early.

- it shows your RC and FFR that you are a dedicated and determined candidate (who doesn't want to send that message!)
- medical waivers will not be requested unless your file is complete
- DoDMERB exam will not be authorized to be scheduled unless the candidate has completed a significant portion of the application. The sooner you take the exam the better.
- you're more likely to get an authorization for a CFA retest if test was failed
- there are some issues that arise in a file review that take time to resolve - like citizenship verification, risk review, and legal or discipline problems, to name a few
- one thing that you may not have thought about is the impact that early file completion has on the MOCs. If your file is complete, it then can move to the next step which is to be Qualified. Being 'Qualified' before you go to your MOC interview sends a message to the MOC that you are a 'no risk' to nominate because WP has already Qualified you. Noms are wasted on candidates who are not Qualified. Therefore, MOCs like knowing this kind of info before they make their slates.
The Qualifying process can take several weeks (and takes longer the later you wait due to increasing file volume), so you want your file complete in time to be Qualified before any MOC interviews!

From our former RC:
"The best candidates tend to complete their files early because they ARE the best candidates. They complete everything in their file early and can manage the numerous activities going on in their life. They have established relationships with their teachers and school administrators and know how to work through the high school bureaucracy that stymies other candidates. They are motivated and West Point is their first choice."

I think that speaks volumes!
Early file completion is something that RCs consistently emphasize.

Candidates can update their file with any new information up until the application deadline (28 FEB) so there is no penalty to early file completion in that respect.

dunninla
7th September 2012, 08:13 PM
Regarding URM (under represented minorities):

I agree with the above poster, having read lots of Official material on this about 14 months ago, but not since -- the goal is for the Officer ranks % to mirror the Enlisted ranks % for a population group -- Hispanic, Black, Asian, and gender.

If Asian enlisted = 6%, and Asian Officer = 4%, there would be a goal to increase Asian officers. The % of a population group in the general population is irrelevant. I assume this balance or imbalance is assessed each year, and goals set accordingly.

Dixieland
11th September 2012, 02:22 AM
bump

Sawndog
19th September 2012, 08:43 PM
Does anyone have previous class statistics? Is 1200 a good number, it seems pretty high to me?

Class of 2016 had 1180 BEFORE Cadet Basic Training.

BigNick
20th September 2012, 07:31 AM
Candidates - follow the note from buff81 and ignor the note from another13mom. It is still important to get your file done early for all the reasons buff81 describes. Be carefull on this forum - there is some excellent advice and some not-so-excellent advice given.

Vista123
24th September 2012, 08:36 PM
trying to figure out the meaning of a letter from admissions. Can someone say what the wording of a LOE might be?

EagleScout13
24th September 2012, 11:24 PM
Basically it says you are being offered an overnight visit which is reserved for only the highest qualified candidates. Something like that. If the letter offers an overnight visit, it's a LoE.

Roadking
26th September 2012, 12:37 PM
I agree totally with Buff81 and BigNick...Get your file done early! It just makes sense on so many levels. Even though the appointment will come February 26th, admissions is working these files through the fall and winter. They are not playing ping pong and drinking cokes waiting for Feb 1st to begin deciding who to appoint! In my opinion, from the admissions point of view, not much has changed. They can review candidates and make decisions but just not make the apointment until Feb 26th. Just my 2 cents.

another13mom
26th September 2012, 01:19 PM
Just to clarify my postion, which Nick has resoundingly thumped :), if you have submitted the overwhelming majority of your file, but want an extra month to really train for the CFA, I see no harm in waiting till early November to do that - but you should really have everything else in (teacher evaluations, Activities Record and verification, scores, transcripts, etc). Similarly, if you want to improve a test score like the SAT, and have submitted preliminary scores along with the majority of your file, I see no harm in waiting for the November test to do that either. In the end (which now appears to be February), there will be many applicants in each congressional district and on the NWL who will be judged on their whole candidate score. Taking every opportunity to improve your score can't hurt. However, I would complete your file asap and wouldn't wait on the ONE thing you want to improve past mid-November.

flyingdream
23rd October 2012, 01:30 PM
I was just at West Point and they briefed us that last year (Class of 2016) they only accepted 1189 cadets. 1200 will actually be a slight increase.

MemberLG
23rd October 2012, 07:27 PM
I was just at West Point and they briefed us that last year (Class of 2016) they only accepted 1189 cadets. 1200 will actually be a slight increase.

there is a big difference between offered vs accepted vs goal.

I believe West Point's goal was 1150 for the class of 2016. They made 1386 offers.

SR-71
1st December 2012, 11:12 PM
If all the information regarding USMA only send out the offer letter on Feb 26, my DS 1st choice is USMA, which mean he will have to make a tough decision as follow.
- He has received congressional nomination to USMA mid-November. (All application has been completed in Sept.)
- He received LOA from USNA in early November, but no nomination yet. He has to response his intention to the Navy by March 1.

If he waits for USMA to receive the offer on Feb 26, he may miss pursuing the nomination for USNA, because he only has 2 days to response to USNA, but if he pursuing the nomination to USNA sometime in January, he may have to forgo the USMA appointment, assuming he may receive the offer from USMA later. How can he play this out effectively?

- Is it true that the candidate with LOA can receive the nomination from congressional/senatorial without being charge to the current 5 academy allotment? The reason being, the navy congressional liaison can request for the nomination and not charging the allotment so it is a win win situation to all party, according some of the blog I read.

timetocarrigan
3rd December 2012, 02:39 PM
Your DS does not have to respond to USNA until May 1st. This will allow more offers to come in and more time to make his decision.

SR-71
3rd December 2012, 05:33 PM
Unfortunately, the letter said my DS has to response by March 1, therefore the dilemma!

hopeful2017parent
3rd December 2012, 05:58 PM
Unfortunately, the letter said my DS has to response by March 1, therefore the dilemma!

Are you sure the letter says to respond his intentions by March 1? I just looked at my DD's LOA from USNA (rec'd in August), and it has the following in bold (direct quote):

"Please remember that your guaranteed offer of appointment is contingent upon satisfactory completion of all the remaining admissions requirements. You must complete the following marked requirements by March 1, 2013 or this offer may no longer be valid."

In my DD's case, the nomination boxed was marked, but there were other requirements in the letter, which were not marked because she had them completed.

Might be worth double-checking the letter to see if this isn't the case. Hope this helps.

Still waiting (im)patiently for than nom.....:rolleyes:

Flyboy522
3rd December 2012, 07:54 PM
I believe you are probably looking at the LOA incorrectly like "hopeful" pointed out and the March deadline is only for getting in items to your package that are missing - my DS received an appt to the USNA and has to respond by May 1st. The actual language is "respond within one week or May 1st whichever is later".

SR-71
4th December 2012, 07:31 PM
My bad! Hopeful is correct. The letter we got has the same exact quote. We're also waiting for the nom from a Senator, which will announce her nom list in January. The 2nd Senator historically announces his list in April, which is too late in our case. I'll wait after the 1st Senator announces her nom list and if my DS does not make the list. I'll contact Naval Congressional Liaison Officer to do their magic trick! lol

kinnem
4th December 2012, 08:06 PM
My bad! Hopeful is correct. The letter we got has the same exact quote. We're also waiting for the nom from a Senator, which will announce her nom list in January. The 2nd Senator historically announces his list in April, which is too late in our case. I'll wait after the 1st Senator announces her nom list and if my DS does not make the list. I'll contact Naval Congressional Liaison Officer to do their magic trick! lol

That date for the second senator is puzzling. I thought noms were due by Jan 31? If so, waiting until April to announce seems rather pointless. But then, much of what Congress does seems rather pointless.

usafahopeful1
6th December 2012, 07:41 PM
Unfortunately, the letter said my DS has to response by March 1, therefore the dilemma!

I was talking to my liaison officer about the possibility of a similar problem (different academies), and he suggested doing the selfish thing for once. If you do actually have to accept the USNA one by March 1, wait until after Feb 26, when USMA will have sent their's out, then accept the USNA one. You will learn in a few days about USMA, so either you go to USNA because USMA turned you down (although it sounds unlikely), or you accept USMA and call up USNA saying no, and they give your appointment to someone else, who only waited a few extra days, but will be ecstatic to receive it nonetheless. I think I might feel guilty about it, but thinking it through it makes sense to me.
If you are lucky, you will hear from West Point earlier and won't run into that problem at all!
Good luck

P.S. In case it wasn't apparent, I wrote this as if writing to your DS.

hawk
6th December 2012, 09:55 PM
If you do actually have to accept the USNA one by March 1, wait until after Feb 26, when USMA will have sent their's out, then accept the USNA one.

Timing will be key on that, as past years it appears that USMA & USNA shared acceptances and did not make offers to those who have accepted other schools.

So be sure of your dates!!!

Also, in many competitive areas the MOC's work together to not duplicate noms, and will also only give a nom to one school. (especially Senate noms)

Hard dilemma, seems like it would be worth the academies attempting to coordinate the dates if possible.

DS in the similar situation had to go with his heart, both on his nom applications and his acceptances.

Marist College ROTC
15th December 2012, 04:22 PM
As a backup, make sure that you are also applying for the ROTC Scholarships. Applying for ROTC will not hurt your academy chances. Many of our candidates accept a ROTC Scholarship and a nomination and withhold a final decision until March or April.