I fOUnTed iT AlsO tOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[USNA69]

I haff also too been serching diligently to find fourm to help assist son my Abdul to attend one of your military schools. I myself too think I have found it. How much it cost??

[Zaphod]

:scratch:

You feelin' OK there, buddy?

ETA: Oh! Never mind! :biggrin:

[USNA69]

:scratch:

You feelin' OK there, buddy?

ETA: Oh! Never mind! :biggrin:

In view of the spam, couldn't resist. Sorry.

[USNA69]

:scratch:

You feelin' OK there, buddy?

ETA: Oh! Never mind! :biggrin:

Oops. Wasn't thinking. Really stupid. Probably kind of like getting a tattoo between the acceptance letter and I-Day. Now that the spam is gone, people will think I am more dumb than they thought previously. Oh well, live and learn. However, this is definitely not as painful as getting a tattoo removed.

Actually, things are kind of dead. Couldn't think of any more jokes. Just trying to liven things up.

[Stealth_81]

Oops. Really stupid. Probably kind of like getting a tattoo between the acceptance letter and I-Day.


I've been following that thread, also, USNA69. It's been really hard to keep my mouth shut. Most of my opinions have been expressed by others, so I guess I'll just leave it alone. I still find it hard to believe that the kids themselves don't care to follow the regs, and there are parents out there who defend their kids 'rights' to not follow the regs.

[USNA69]

Several years ago I was doing an awards night at the high school. After waxing as eloquently as possibe over both the Foundation (where he was headed), the Academy, and the candidate, he came forward to receive the presentation. The camera captured me just as my jaw hit the floor. He had a hole in his left ear that one could drive a tractor-trailer through. He is now wrestling for Navy.

From then on, I tried to make it a point to mention body alterations in passing during all interviews. However, last year, kid at the same school I taught, family friend. dad a retired Navy Master Chief, etc. etc. I didn't think it necessary. He dropped by to say goodbye on the way to NAPS. "What the f*** is that on your arm?" He had one of those bicep bands. Oh well, live and learn.

[jamzmom]

The whole tattoo controversy has me wondering….Does USNA tattoo policy differ from USMMA? Do they allow the non-visible type? USMMA allows tattoos but not of an inappropriate nature as described per their policy (page 13 of their admissions catalog). Nor can it be visible through any part of their uniform. I’ve seen a few kids with tattoos there. Mostly on their backs, shoulders or chests that keeps them hidden. Almost all are maritime related. I even know a few of them who have gone to sea and followed in that grand maritime sailor’s tradition of getting one. Son isn’t one of them as he knows I’d beat his *beep*. He emailed me once from some south pacific island teasing me that the crew was going to take him out & get him one. I had nightmares for a week from his not so funny joke, that he’d die of some strange blood disorder. I’m truly neither here or there on the debate of a civvy kid over 18 doing what they will but feel it best not to temp academy rules & regs on the matter. I don’t like them personally and I don’t feel that only “bad” kids get them. I just think kids applying to an academy should look more closely at the policy and understand the root of why the policy was put into place. Its there for a reason.

USNA69, your spam son Abdul wasn’t a big hit it seems? LOL I’ll be on the look out for a joke for you to raise your spirits.

[kp2001]

The regs must be different

I didn't realize USNA had souch tough regs on tattoo's, I figured they would be the same as officers in the Navy, but I have learned over the past few days (and should have known) that they are much more stringent at Annapolis.

I know several of my classmates at KP who got both tattoos and body piercings while midshipmen. Some were rather large, taking up a whole side of the upper arm and just barely hidden by the uniform. One track guy got a chicken with a noose around it's neck (don't ask, I have no idea) on the outside of his calf. There were several tongue rings as well, they would simply pull them out while in uniform.

[Just_A_Mom]

Personally, I have nothing against tatoos. I told my oldest two years ago she could have one for her college graduation. She took a pass - afraid of needles. That did set the stage for my others - the rule is to wait until after you graduate from college.

I would question not the tatoo itself but why anyone with an appointment would even risk it healthwise. Yeah yeah, everyone knows all tatoo parlors are "safe". Hmmmmmmmm that is why you can't donate blood after having a tatoo. There is a risk of hepatitis or any blood born disease. No matter how small that risk why would a candidate take the risk? I am pretty sure getting hepatitis is a no go for DoDMERB and might not make you commissionable.

[cga82]

Abdul no tatoos. I noticed that some of the football players in the army/navy game had significant tatoos. I think these kids get them out of peer acceptance-to be kool. I visit the Navy Dive School (NCSS) in Panama City everymonth and it floors me to see the amount of tatoos these kids have on their leggs and arms. You do stupid things -you pay the price.

[Zaphod]

You should get back there, shipmate! It's getting fun! :shake:

[cga82]

Your bad Z. Someone could really spin em up with the religeous factor.

[Zaphod]

Religion? What's religion got to do with this? :confused:

Hell, if I had wanted to spin things up, I would have. I simply spoke the truth. Now it turns out the girl got the damned tattoo in PRAGUE. Okay, so 10 out of 10 points for style, but minus several million for good thinking, you know?

[justawife]

It won't take long for her classmates to figure out who she is. Lets see a female from Georgia, how many of them are going to be in the class of 2011.

My spouse has always reminded me that I should not do anything to embarass my children. No cute stories about when they were 4 years old.

There was a parent talking about his son's issue with having clean socks and underwear. Something about changing 3 times a day. Upperclassman with this info will have a field day. My spouse said this kid better get use to feeling wet and dirty, he will never make it through BCT otherwise. My spouse is a grad.

Example of embarassment out of your control, our flight doc a grad, married a wonderful gal ivy league grad. She had 400 pairs of shoes, his call sign was about her shoes, not anything about him. Fighter pilots can be mean!

[cga82]

Z, I enjoy all of your post. I agree that you told the truth. Obviously, others don't hold the same views or truths. I am not a Bible pusher but many various opinions or interpretations are made about tattoos and body markings in various passages in the Bible. I would think that the moral fiber coming from most parents would have some religeous belief system base. You have a great ability to verbally write your thoughts-I do not. I like to read just about anything I can get into my hands.

[jamzmom]

TN?? I gotta know.... How many kids at AFA have tattoos if you had to guess-ta-mate? I guess I'm just curious with all the debate on the issue.

J_A_M, I have one horrified of needles as well. Had to breathe in a paper bag in 8th grade after the HpB shot. How's that for embarrassing your kid. :shake:

[ChipAyten]

Im gonna get a real nice "RANGER" and "SPECIAL FORCES" tatoo on my shoulder after i complete the appropriate training! Hardy har har =P

[MaritimeGirl11]

Good for you Chip. I don't ever plan on getting one too painful..

[ChipAyten]

HOOAH! :wiggle:

Nha lol j/k I'm afraid of needles :stretcher:
:lolatyou:

[hornetguy]

Lesya, you might want to clear your PM box. Also just realized you facebooked me. craziness.

[MaritimeGirl11]

Yea i just did that. I wish we could save more messages. I like saving stuff.

[TacticalNuke]

I wish we could save more messages.

Done.

-TN

[ChipAyten]

FUNTASTIC!

[MaritimeGirl11]

WOW Really.. THANK YOU!

[USNA69]

TN?? I gotta know.... How many kids at AFA have tattoos if you had to guess-ta-mate? I guess I'm just curious with all the debate on the issue.

JM, Just in case he doesn't answer, here is the USAFA policy directly from the FAQ portion of their Admissions website:

"While having a tattoo or brand does not automatically disqualify you from consideration, it does open the door for rejection based on a more subjective evaluation. Nonremovable piercings are not allowed and must be removed prior to admission. Air Force policy stipulates that tattoos or brands must not be excessive. Nor may they contain inflammatory, obscene, racist, sexist or similar content. Tattoos or brands that fall into any of these categories will cause you to be disqualified for admission. The Department of Defense Medical Examination Review Board will notify the Admissions Office of any tattoos, brands or nonremovable piercings noted during your medical exam. We will then require that you provide us a color snapshot of each. Assuming your tattoo or brand falls within acceptable limits, you will be allowed to continue in the application process. You should keep the following in mind. Those who review the picture of your tattoo, brand or piercing are of an older generation and may not view body art in the same manner as you. So, if you don't already have a tattoo or brand, think long and hard about whether the risk of possibly losing out on an Academy appointment is worth it."

Therefore, I would highly speculate, very few. However, one has to wonder about this statement:

"Nonremovable piercings are not allowed and must be removed prior to admission."

I guess if they are nonremovable and cannot be there on admission's day, they don't get them in the first place.

Tattoos, at USAFA are a "more subjective evaluation". Probably not truly different than USNA. Subjective in why would one defy Academy regulations. Subjective in why would one risk admissions denying infectious disease and go to Prague, because, due to her age, she cannot get one in the US. I hope poor Loonie who grew up on "Where's Waldo?" is not the only candidate who subjectively agreed that she was stupid.

Damn, start a thread. Go away for two days and miss all the fun.

[USNA69]

Your bad Z. Someone could really spin em up with the religeous factor.

I am surprised, since with some of these parents whose kids can do no wrong, that this was not proposed. Surely it takes some outside influence to go against the intent of Academy regulations, to do something truly stupid, and since, due to her age, she cannot get it done in the US, travel to a ________ (second/third) world nation with suspect sanitary conditions and get it done. Maybe we are indeed looking at a 21st century Joan of Arc,, no Georgia.

[Just_A_Mom]

USNA69 - you are sooooooooooooo out of touch with the younger generaton. I believe that "non-removable piercings" refers to those that would close up upon removal. These would be tongue, eyebrow and belly piercings to name a few. If they take them out for Beast or plebe summer there wont be a hole left.

Tatoos are becoming more and more "mainstream". They really aren't considered scandalous by the Gen X's and Gen Y's. I would be willing to bet that they are all over the academies - privately. Body parts are most usually pierced on the face and head and are not concealable. Those body parts that are pierced in more discrete areas would probably be uncomfortable out in the field anyway.

[cga82]

USNA69, right on. I don't know how to do all that "boxing",the face deals and I hunt and peck on the key board (I'm very slow)but these kids need this character stuff of right and wrong way before the Navy,Army,KP,CG regs kick in. Hey, everyone has done stupid things and you usually pay the price. I would be more afraid at this point of the your latter point of what did I just get in Prague-hopefully not some disease that could be a bigger problem. Maybe some of the other kids might learn if they get that twinge of consequenses before they do something that may have an adverse effect on their life. Hopefully, this gal will be ok and come away a little stronger for her mistake-if she sees it as a mistake.

[cga82]

USNA69, right on. I don't know how to do all that "boxing",the face deals and I hunt and peck on the key board (I'm very slow)but these kids need this character stuff of right and wrong way before the Navy,Army,KP,CG regs kick in. Hey, everyone has done stupid things and you usually pay the price. I would be more afraid at this point of the your latter point of what did I just get in Prague-hopefully not some disease that could be a bigger problem. Maybe some of the other kids might learn if they get that twinge of consequenses before they do something that may have an adverse effect on their life. Hopefully, this gal will be ok and come away a little stronger for her mistake-if she sees it as a mistake.

[USNA69]

USNA69 - you are sooooooooooooo out of touch with the younger generaton.
I guess if the judgement thereof is to be able to provide the definition of non-removable piercings you are correct.

Tatoos are becoming more and more "mainstream".
This thread, in my opinion, has absolutely nothing to do with tattoos. It is the ability to read and understand regulations and then apply a mature responsible application of them. It is the ability to think past possibly immature decisions and to understand the very real dire consequences. It is absolutely no different than the candidate who was lambasted several months ago for wanted to do a solo skydive.

[Just_A_Mom]

It is the ability to read and understand regulations and then apply a mature responsible application of them.

Yes, well this is quite subjective and my point is as tatoos become more mainstream that definition of "mature responsible application" will change.

I don't have so much of a problem with getting a tatoo as I do with one risking one's health while getting it. I bet a lot of you old fogies would be surprised if you took a poll of young officers - how many of them have tatoos.
There is a time and a place for everything - get your tatoo at a safe place and a discrete part of your body. Get it at the right time in your life as well - just before reporting may not be the best time.

[Zaphod]

USNA69 - you are sooooooooooooo out of touch with the younger generaton.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

[USNA69]

Yes, well this is quite subjective and my point is as tatoos become more mainstream that definition of "mature responsible application" will change.

A quick five minute google, something all "mainstream" young people understand, I am sure, of medical concerns and tattoos:

The Mayo clinic warns that few states have established hygenic regulations for tattoo parlors and fewer make any attempts whatsoever to enforce them. They don't even begin to address little side alleys in Prague.

The ARC, due to hepatitis concerns, will not allow blood donations for one year after a tattoo.

In the US, there are twice as many causes of hepatitis C due to tattoos than illegial drug use.

I will restate my case, it is not mature and responsible. Being a sheep and following the crowd, not one of the attributes the academies are highly seeking, yes; mature no.

Just remember in a little over one year from today, these Class of 2011 candidates could possibly be on midshipman cruise in the Gulf of Aden and a repeat of the USS Cole attack occur with much more bodily damage. Where do you think the blood will come from to keep these sailors alive? From their fellow shipmates. Oh guess what, our fearless mainstream midshipman just infects half his shipmates with hepatitis C. Naval Officers are held to a higher standard.

[Just_A_Mom]

Oh Zap - just wait till those youngun's of yours are teenagers! You will never feel so old yet so young at the same time.
If the younger generation is a part of your life - then you want to be in touch with them - just don't want to be them or act like them!
Having had a teenager for 11 years now and 3 more years to go - I can say you are in for the ride of your life! Prepare and enjoy!

[Zaphod]

Oh, yeah. My little ones are 5.5 and 6.5. Sadly, I live 1100 miles away.

Still, I hope that they will grow up with enough sense to know better. Fortunately, their mother doesn't go for any of this new-fangled crap, either, so at least I have that going for me. Aside from that, it will be the usual crapshoot.

None of this changes the fact that I find much of what passes as mainstream pop culture to be pretty damned disgusting.

[RetNavyHM]

A little "behind the scenes" notes concerning tattoos and I-day. Having sat at the end of the medical line for 6 I-days at Annapolis I have seen and heard many things. For some strange reason, the base photographer had a setup in the "complicated medical review" portion of the Alumni Hall I-day process. Any applicant who hadn't sent a photo of their tattoo, brand or piercing had to come through, get pics taken and during the day someone from the admissions office would come through, take a peek at the photos and flag the ones that the Supe needed to look at. The kids would also be placed in a holding room with the questionable medical kids as well. Towards the end of the day the Supe would come down, first the medical issues would be taken care of, then on to the tattoos.

I have 4 tattoos that I've gotten in the states, at licensed tattoo parlors, and none are visible in PT gear, that’s my choice. When I'm 80 years old, I didn't want some freakish looking thing on my arm.

Some of the tattoos that I saw on the active duty/NAPS guys were a little outrageous, but the majority of those who’s tattoos showed outside of PT gear agreed to have them removed. There were 4 active duty who decided that returning to the fleet/marines was more important than removing a tattoo.

For the civilian kids it was more piercings than tattoos, but there are 2 kids that I remember clearly who decided that a tattoo was more important than the academy. One of those tattoos was less than 2 months old. It was in celebration of a HS basketball championship. I would have thought a picture would have worked better than a huge flaming basketball on the forearm.

Another thing that we ran into at Annapolis, was the midshipmen going out and getting tattoos and piercings. I can't tell you how many infected tongue studs, belly, nipple and other piercings I personally took care of in my 3 years there. Tattoos weren't that big of an issue, unless you count the first class midshipmen who found out he was allergic to the tattoo ink after spending $800 on a very large and colorful tattoo on his back. He was qualified for SNA, and ended up going surface due to the fact that he was going to be on a lot of medications for the allergic reaction while waiting to have the tattoo lasered off.

My personal thoughts on tattoos/branding/piercing: its a personal choice. I'd never tell my kids/grandkids not to do it. But I will make sure that they know what is and isn't acceptable. For an applicant going into a service academy, or for someone who is already there, make sure that what you are doing is something that you will still be proud of when you are 50/60/70 years old. Is that tattoo of the flaming skull that you want on the underside of your forearm going to help you land that job at the fortune 500 company of your dreams, or will that belly piercing that your "friend" is going to do keep you from getting into the academy of your dreams due to the infection caused by dirty needles/dirty ring/lack of care?

Body modification is not something to do just because everyone else is doing it, and its definately not something you want to do on impulse. Take a look at what your dreams are, and where you want to be in 20/30 years from now. It may look "cool" today, but when you put it against your dreams, does it fit? If not, put it off for a bit.

I'm done!

[Just_A_Mom]

Well said.
In fact, as am now "of a certain age" where I don't have to worry (don't care-haha) about what other people think, I was thinking about getting a tatoo. I am thinking it will probably not conflict with my 20-30 year plan too much! :smile:

[jamzmom]

I have to grin at myself while reading some of the posts. Especially J_A_M to Z about his girls. LOL Imagine yourself with an 18 year old who just brings home the new boyfriend. I recall it vividly. “Hi Dad. Meet my new boyfriend David. Ummmm, yes…. He’s 10 years older than I am. By the way, he wants me to go to New Orleans with him for the week-end.” I never knew until that moment that my Dad could pick up a sofa & throw it that far. Wonder what ever happened to that guy. Oh well. If he wouldn’t have disappeared, my hubby might not have found me shortly thereafter. And if belly button rings would have been “in” back then, I KNOW I woulda had one. LOL

Being the wild child I was, I can’t sit here & say that I would stop my kid from getting a tattoo. I just want him to understand the dangers of getting one in some foreign land & why he would truly want one. Going out to sea year, I noticed, comes with a little friendly adult salty guy humor of ribbing the young ‘uns about such things. Tattoos & other things were talked about, trust me. He was a resolute little kid until he met some of those Mates. I’m gonna put my kid in a big old zip lock baggie this next time out. :shake:

[sealion]

USNA69

Your summer cruise example for the a mid from the class of '11 really gave me pause. I have truly only been thinking that I had at least 4 1/2 years before my son would be facing that kind of situation. That's a whalloping new viewpoint.

My background is micro/molecular biology. Tattoo (and promiscuous sex) discussions have always been covered in our house from that perspective. What outrageously healthy late adolescents have trouble understanding is that their highly effective immune systems can effectively mask viral infections. Later in life (like the late 20's) those viral infections can appear especially when one is unduly stressed, fatigued or sleep deprived.

There is a suspicion that chronic fatigue and other weird opportunistic syndromes exhibit linkage to tattoos and piercings. Now if physicians set up tattoo parlors that might be a bit better. But then again think of how many illnesses are actually acquired in medical settings.

On top of all that you throw in the static populations and close quarters associated w/ shipboard life and the rules and regs really begin to make sense.

All of this stuff could apply to promiscuous sex, as well, but that's another subject.

[jamzmom]

When the kid opens his email today, he's gonna say, "What the :confused: ?" LOL Had to do it! My Mom mode kicked in double time so I used the old copy & paste function to send Sealion's post to him. I only have one more month before he goes out! Times a wastin'!

Thanks Sealion! :smile:

[USNA69]

I bet a lot of you old fogies would be surprised if you took a poll of young officers - how many of them have tatoos.

And maybe you would be surprised. Living in the same town as one's active duty Navy son who had a pool resulted in a lot of being head grill chef and bartender. I was at a lot of pool parties with a lot of Navy aviators and I honestly don't remember any of the guys having tattoos. However, the wives were another story.

[kp2001]

I would say around half of my ~180 member class who will be O3's in the Air Force, Army, and Navy (and a couple Public Health) in four months have tattoo's.

I was very surprised when one day I was in the locker room getting ready to go to a surgery with one of my classmates when I noticed he had two huge tattoos on his chest. And it was definately not the guy I would have pictured would have these tattoo's either.

I don't think the 50% rate is indicative of the officer corps in general, but I would bet it's around 30%, maybe a little higher.

I'm going to go off on another tangent here, but one of the funniest things I ever saw was a patient who was a chief in the Navy. He had a belt buckle on that said 'Goin' Down' with an arrow pointing down and then two tattoo's on his chest. Unfortunately this is the era of 'don't ask, don't tell' so I'll never know the truth on that one.