4-yr Scholarship Chances

I am a mom posting on behalf of my son. I actually posted this on the Army ROTC board initially, but some people suggested coming over here, as you guys have a reputation for being both knowledgeable and helpful!

While I'm aware that no one on this board can give actual scholarship chances for an individual student, I am hoping someone with knowledge of the process can let us know if my son would be in the running for a 4-year scholarship. I haven't seen many threads that detail the qualifications of scholarship recipients - just a lot of applicants. Can someone look at his info below and give us an idea? If more info is needed, let me know - we are very new to this process, although I was in ROTC back in the dark ages (non-scholarship). I do still know a correct push-up when I see one )

16yr old Jr in High school - will graduate May 2011
GPA - 3.85 unweighted - at graduation, will have taken 11 honors classes and 6 AP classes
ACT - 34
Ht - 6' 2"
Wt - 155#
Pushups - 70 +/- correct
Sit-ups - 85 correct
2 mile - 11:40-ish
1 mile (for Scholarship app?) - 5:15

School Stuff -
Latin Club
Beta Club
FCA
National Honor Society
One of about 30 students from 6 area high schools chosen for year-long student leadership program - sophomore year
One of 4 students chosen from district for conference at state capital on policies in education - junior year
Cross Country x3 years so far - not on varsity with an 18+ 5k, but still a solid runner
Swim Team x 3 years so far - 3x state qualifier, regional champ, state finalist, most likely captain senior year
Tennis x1
Track x1

Outside of school -
Triathlon - 5th year, nationally ranked, 2-year member of USA Triathlon SE Region Junior High Performance Team
Cycling - 3rd year, National ranked (like top 10). State Champion x3. Sent to Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs by USA Cycling to participate in National Talent ID Camp (part of the national team selection process)
Coach/Mentor of middle school "Couch to Cyclocross" program to encourage kids to get involved in cycling
Started 1/2 marathon team in 8th grade and ran the Country Music 1/2 (time 1:43 at 13yrs) - approx 60 kids have trained and competed in 1/2 marathons as part of the program since then, and spin-off programs have been started at area elementary schools that get kids out running and training for 5k races.

Does anyone have a guess as to whether or not he'd be competitive? I know the competition is intense. He would love ROTC, and I believe, or hope, he is the type of kid they're looking for. He has already landed on his #1 school and met the ROO there, who encouraged him to apply for a scholarship as soon as possible. A full scholarship is literally the only way he'll be able to attend this school, as we have an EFC of about $2500, and not sure we can even manage that. (husband retired..me low income). My son sees the schol. as a means to an end, but he likes the end as well.

I realize this post is very long! Thanks for reading and thanks for the help!

He looks like a solid candidate! There are some threads that list qualifications of recipients (Check the "Competitiveness of Marine Scholarships" thread for recent posts among others).

Its my understanding that nearly all ROTC scholarships are tuition, books, fees and modest monthly stipend, but do NOT include room and board. There are a very few room and board exceptions possible, rare depending on school. Good luck to your son!

Thanks SETXDad! Fortunately, his first choice school is one that provides free room and board to 4-yr scholarship winners. In fact, several of his top choices do, and he will likely limit his list to those schools.

I guess I should have specified this is for Army ROTC. Does that make a difference?

Some additional info -
Top 10% of his class.
ACT subscores were: Math - 35, English - 35, Science - 34 and Reading 33.
Accepted for the Naval Academy Summer Seminar this year.

Is it a good sign that the ROO at his #1 school outlined exactly how many campus-based scholarships he has to award, and asked my son to submit his application as soon as possible, or does he likely say that to anyone who is interested?
My son, not schooled in the ways of recruiters or salesmen, walked away thinking he was a lock. I am slightly more cautious. I know he looks good on paper, but I really don't have a feel for exactly how competitive this process really is - hence my questions for you good folks.

Any and all input is appreciated!

Apply early, and I guarantee he'll get the scholarship.

Jcc123 said:

Thanks SETXDad! Fortunately, his first choice school is one that provides free room and board to 4-yr scholarship winners. In fact, several of his top choices do, and he will likely limit his list to those schools.

I guess I should have specified this is for Army ROTC. Does that make a difference?

Some additional info -
Top 10% of his class.
ACT subscores were: Math - 35, English - 35, Science - 34 and Reading 33.
Accepted for the Naval Academy Summer Seminar this year.

Is it a good sign that the ROO at his #1 school outlined exactly how many campus-based scholarships he has to award, and asked my son to submit his application as soon as possible, or does he likely say that to anyone who is interested?
My son, not schooled in the ways of recruiters or salesmen, walked away thinking he was a lock. I am slightly more cautious. I know he looks good on paper, but I really don't have a feel for exactly how competitive this process really is - hence my questions for you good folks.

Any and all input is appreciated!

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Wow-everything looks great-in fact he looks like an academy applicant to me.
If the ROO said that then I would assume that he's really interested in your son and I would pursue that option.

I had a 27 on my ACT. My GPA was 3.5 weighted and 3.25 unweighted. I was involved with 3 AP classes and 4 honors courses. Push ups were 55 and sit ups were 58. My mile time was 7:20. I have a blackbelt in taekwondo and was a two year All-Conference offensive tackle and one year All-State. I participated in Spanish club and two years of baseball. Those were pretty much my stats, and I was awarded a 4-year during the March board. So I'd say without a doubt that you're son will get it!

Nursing option

Wondering if anyone has input regarding what competitve "stats" would be for a Nursing option scholarship application?

SCHOLARSHIP
ACT: 23 (SAT equivalent: 1120)
GPA: 3.1 unweighted, 3.3 weighted
Jr year - 3.5
Sr year - 3.9

LEADERSHIP
President, FCA
Special Olympics coach & volunteer, 3 years

ATHLETICS
Varsity wrestling, 2 years - 2x All-District, 1x State qualifier (top 16)
Varsity football, 2 years - starter, sr year
Black belt in kung fu
PFT: 59 pushups, 64 situps, 7:40 mile

We know the grades / test scores aren't outstanding, but that he's overcome a learning disorder to get this far is a miracle in itself, and he's performed outstandingly on his healthcare-related courses (95+ average). Hoping the leadership and athletic accomplishments can make up for that?

Thanks in advance for any feedback, and best wishes to all!

Before getting into scholarship qualifications, it may be worthwhile to look into whether or not your son's specific LD is an automatic DQ or is waiverable.
My son was diagnosed ADHD at age 5, but has not taken any meds since 4th grade, and really shows no signs at all. I'm certain he's fine, but significant LDs can be a DQ.
Sorry, but I don't have any info to give regarding nursing scholarships. We're here seeking the same information.

HwtDad said:

GPA: 3.1 unweighted, 3.3 weighted
Jr year - 3.5
Sr year - 3.9

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If he has a senior year GPA wouldn't that indicate that your son is at the end of his senior year in high school....or am I missing something?

Jcc123 said:

Before getting into scholarship qualifications, it may be worthwhile to look into whether or not your son's specific LD is an automatic DQ or is waiverable.
My son was diagnosed ADHD at age 5, but has not taken any meds since 4th grade, and really shows no signs at all. I'm certain he's fine, but significant LDs can be a DQ.
Sorry, but I don't have any info to give regarding nursing scholarships. We're here seeking the same information.

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Thanks for the response.

My son's LD is called Sensory Processing Dysfunction, or SPD. If you're not a trained professional you wouldn't be able to tell he has it - just impacts how he deals with sensory inputs (sound-triggered - for example, has a tough time listening to a lecture AND taking notes; using a tape-recorder lately has been a great help, but...he's just learned to remember what he hears).

Never was on medication, mainstreamed in Kindergarten, all regular classes from 4th grade on, and A/B honor roll ever since. And it's heightened his ability to focus on details & specifics, he's doing very well in the healthcare classes he takes because he remembers all the things you have to memorize.

Again, thanks for the feedback, and best wishes on your quest!

aglages said:

If he has a senior year GPA wouldn't that indicate that your son is at the end of his senior year in high school....or am I missing something?

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Sorry, should have been more specific: that's the GPA for the 1st semester of his Sr year.

Thought it would be obvious, but we all know what happens when you "ass-u-me"...apologies for not being more clear.

HwtDad said:

Sorry, should have been more specific: that's the GPA for the 1st semester of his Sr year.

Thought it would be obvious, but we all know what happens when you "ass-u-me"...apologies for not being more clear.

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Obviously your son is in his senior year then....

Is your son's scholarship application already finished and you're still waiting to find out if he has been awarded a scholarship?

The first thing I will say about chances is that every year is different. I think that this is the one thing that we've all learned this year. This year the number of scholarships are down; the number of applicants are up; Fewer campus scholarships seem to be available;

That being said, next year may be very different. Some have said that this year's reduction in scholarships was an adjustment to last year's bumper crop, so perhaps there will be more scholarships available. They do need a steady supply of officers entering over time. The economy is bad and not likely to get any better, so I'd expect a continued large number of applicants.

As to applicant's specifc chance, you have to look at 2 things:

1) How high is your total person score - JCC, your son's academics will probably max out that part of the score. HWT, you are correct that this is a problem area. Hopefully your son can improve those academic numbers before the fall. SAT/ACT tests can be updated after the initial application is submitted, so take it several times. As to athletics, JCC, being nationally ranked along with varsity participation in another sport will definitely max that area out. HWT, your son should be maxed out in this area as well. Next up EC's and leadership - JCC, if your son does get a captainship next season, it will go a long way in improving this score. Not sure if is maxed out, though. HWT, with a club leadership role already, your son is in great shape, but I think multiple leadership roles might be able to boost this some more.

The common recommendation around here seems to be to take the Army PFT test at a unit if you can max out those scores. Nobody is sure exactly how that maps to the Presidential Physical Test numbers.

Finally, your son's interview score can be the make or break part of the score when it comes to the most competitive applicants. If he can articulate why an Army career is what he desires and how he wants to develop as a leader, he will do well. It can help to interview at a top choice and express his like of the school, it should help. PMS's do have some say in the award of scholarships.

2) How high your total person score is compared to others applying where you are applying - There are a lot of very competitive schools out there with lots of very well-qualified applicants and there are others that have to recruit to get enough applicants. If your son's school list is made up of the former, you may be surprised how tough it is to get in.

On the other hand, if the school you son applies to is not one of the more popular destinations, his odds improve.

I'm going to ask a question of JCC - Is your son looking at top cycling schools to compete on a team, or will he have different priorities at college? I ask because one of the better cycling schools in the country Marian (Indianapolis) has had their ROO (Indianapolis ROO is his ID) posting here and they do have R&B scholarships available. I know that for goaliegirl, being able to play women's hockey was critical in her school choice. Others don't necessarily have that priority.

Getting back to the subject of comparing your son's whole person score to other applicants, this would indicate that you should choose some schools (and have them high on your list) where your son will be a top candidate (think academically here) compared with the university as a whole.

In the nursing realm HWT, there are schools that are more competitive than others. With your son's academic credentials, it is especially important that he finds schools where he will be a solid academic admit, as nursing schools can be very competitive even without the ROTC factor.

Finally, my last piece of advice would be to call the ROO at schools where they are interested in applying and go over your information and ask how they compare with this year's scholarship recipients. I know with goaliegirl, the ones we asked gave us very goo insight as to what academic scores their past recipients had.

Get your applications in before the first board if you are sure of your school list. Don't put schools on your list that aren't sure you want to attend, as there have been several applicants here who have gotten scholarship offers to schools they initially put on their lists but later decided against.

cjs said:

Obviously your son is in his senior year then....

Is your son's scholarship application already finished and you're still waiting to find out if he has been awarded a scholarship?

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Thanks for your help: Yes, his application was completed in January, just awaiting word. Status website says "no decision yet" - CPO told him from the outset that he'd likely not hear until late April / early May, so...just "on pins & needles" as so many are right now.

HwtDad said:

Thanks for your help: Yes, his application was completed in January, just awaiting word. Status website says "no decision yet" - CPO told him from the outset that he'd likely not hear until late April / early May, so...just "on pins & needles" as so many are right now.

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My apologies for not seeing that your son is a Senior. I guess there is not much left to do but wait and talk to your ROO's to see what options may still be available.

Thank you SO MUCH for putting so much time & thought into a response. Please see my comments / responses interspersed in your notes below.

goaliedad said:

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As to applicant's specifc chance, you have to look at 2 things:

1) How high is your total person score - HWT, you are correct that this is a problem area. Hopefully your son can improve those academic numbers before the fall.

As noted elsewhere, my son is actually a graduating senior, already applied & awaiting response, so...not sure we can do anything about the test scores (I think the last Boards met earlier this month). Or could that help for a campus-based scholarship?

As to athletics, HWT, your son should be maxed out in this area as well. Thanks. He sure put in the time & effort to get there - has been training 7-days-a-week for most of the past 6 months. And added 30 pounds of MUSCLE last summer in weight-training.

Next up EC's and leadership - HWT, with a club leadership role already, your son is in great shape, but I think multiple leadership roles might be able to boost this some more. Just fyi, I didn't list every activity, there are a few more on the applications. Again, as a graduating senior he's pretty well out of chances to add here.

The common recommendation around here seems to be to take the Army PFT test at a unit if you can max out those scores. Nobody is sure exactly how that maps to the Presidential Physical Test numbers.

From my read of the the Army standards...

http://www.pitt.edu/~armyrotc/APFTStandards.htm

...it would appear that my son has to get just 12 more pushups and 14 more situps in that extra minute in the APFT vs. PFT to max out those scores; for the run, I think a score of 60 is more realistic since his 1-mile run was 7:40 and 60 on the 2-mile is just under 16:00. So a total score of 260 should be a good estimate of what he can do. Opinions on how that score would rate?

Finally, your son's interview score can be the make or break part of the score when it comes to the most competitive applicants. If he can articulate why an Army career is what he desires and how he wants to develop as a leader, he will do well.

Both the Army PMS and the Navy CPO gave him very strong feedback after his interviews. He does have a clearly-articulated view of what he wants to do, why he can do it well in the military, and what he has to offer them (his essays were pretty crisp and focused on that score).

It can help to interview at a top choice and express his like of the school, it should help. PMS's do have some say in the award of scholarships.

His target schools aren't near home - he wants to try to pursue wrestling as a walk-on, and Texas doesn't have any varsity-level college wrestling programs, so....he wasn't able to interview at the schools he's most interested in (Old Dominion, Arizona State, George Mason, Purdue, Oklahoma, Central Oklahoma).


2) How high your total person score is compared to others applying where you are applying - There are a lot of very competitive schools out there with lots of very well-qualified applicants and there are others that have to recruit to get enough applicants. If your son's school list is made up of the former, you may be surprised how tough it is to get in.

I can understand that some schools are highly competitive - both just as college choice as well as an ROTC program to become a part of. Any opinions on which schools are particularly desirable for ROTC candidates in particular?

On the other hand, if the school you son applies to is not one of the more popular destinations, his odds improve. ... this would indicate that you should choose some schools (and have them high on your list) where your son will be a top candidate (think academically here) compared with the university as a whole.

Fortunately, my son has been admitted to every school he applied to / all the preferences on his applications. I think a key factor is because he focused on schools where his academics made him a good fit for the typical freshman class. Why go somewhere and be stressed academically, when being an academic superstar isn't the top goal? Hey, we understand, it IS "school" and academics ARE critically important; what I mean is, we're not aiming for Harvard, just for getting a SOLID education & being prepared for his post-graduation profession.

In the nursing realm HWT, there are schools that are more competitive than others. With your son's academic credentials, it is especially important that he finds schools where he will be a solid academic admit, as nursing schools can be very competitive even without the ROTC factor.

Yes, getting in to many nursing schools is a tough thing: with ASU and Purdue, for example, he got admitted to the university but not yet to the nursing school. Fortunately, while some schools have their nurses taking a set curriculum all 4 years, at both of these schools the "real" nursing program doesn't really start until you're an upperclassman, so he has 2 years to get the basics in & prove he's a solid student with his underclassman GPA before he applies again. (From what we've been told, being admitted as a freshman just gets you a "lock" on an upperclass berth, if you keep up the grades, as well as priority admission to the lower-division pre-requisites for the final two years.)

Finally, my last piece of advice would be to call the ROO at schools where they are interested in applying and go over your information and ask how they compare with this year's scholarship recipients.

THAT is some great advice - well, ALL of it is, but this is a new suggestion that sounds like it may well get us some good info. THANK YOU.

Get your applications in before the first board if you are sure of your school list. Don't put schools on your list that aren't sure you want to attend, as there have been several applicants here who have gotten scholarship offers to schools they initially put on their lists but later decided against.

Yes, fortunately you can update your list, which we have done once (University of Texas is gosh-awful to get into these days, what with the mandatory acceptance for any top-10% graduates in the state). We are still thinking about the list, and hoping some focused calls to the most-preferred schools at this point can help.

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Again, many thanks for your time and feedback. This forum has some very, VERY generous people, but your post was exceptional even for here!

Still hoping to get some details from anyone who has insights about Nursing Option....?

Wish I could help you with nursing option. There have been a couple of folks around here who have gone the nursing route, but nobody here that I've seen can talk to whether there are other things with regards to nursing scholarships to be considered.

The school choices don't on the surface sound overly competitive, but I'm not familiar with the level of ROTC interest at those schools either. Glad to hear that admissions has been going well.

I hear you about trying to find schools for regionally played sports. Goaliegirl is going to a school both 1000 miles from her boarding school and almost 1000 miles from home. Made recruiting very difficult, but there were no close options for her.

Definitely talk to the ROO's. They like kids who want to go varsity at college (even as a walk-on). And it went a long way to help us with getting the campus scholarship. They want to know that you want to go there.

And our situation was also applying to schools where she was a match or safety situation. I agree about why stetch when you have sports and ROTC committments. It also worked out that these were the schools that had what we were looking for.

Best of luck and sorry for any confusion I may have caused trying to address both a current year candidate and a future year candidate in one post.

goaliedad, I was the source of the confusion, so apologies are called for on my end, not yours. Didn't cause me grief, anyway, so thx for being so gracious about it.

Also appreciate the additional idea about mentioning Varsity sports to the ROOs - will give that a shot.

FYI: son has been attending a wrestling training session 2-3 hours every Sunday afternoon with a 3x All-American / National Team member - and one of his old teammates has connections with the coach at ODU, my son's #1 program. Small world. Hopefully, having that direct referral to the coach, from someone whose opinion he'll likely listen to, will make the difference.

All the best to everyone "on pins & needles" as we are!

First of all, thanks everyone for the great answers. So informative, and really just very nice of you to take the time to write such in-depth responses.

I believe the only question really directed at me is whether or not my son is looking at cycling schools. The short answer is yes, but the reality is a little more complicated. He is in pretty close contact with 4 schools that have varsity cycling, 3 with nationally-known programs and one with a new program. He deeply desires to race in college, but also realizes that going pro, while possible, is a long shot for everyone. He knows he needs the academics as well. From our experience, really none of the schools with varsity cycling are academic powerhouses (I'm not too familiar with Marion, other than to say I know they're big in track cycling). For a kid who has med school as an ultimate goal (I know that can change), academics are really important.

This leaves club cycling as the next best option. If you're familiar with how collegiate cycling works, clubs and varsity teams compete against each other without distinction as to the type of team. Some of the best teams in the nation are clubs. For this reason, he's landed on a school with a good club team as his #1 choice. Great academics, great club cycling - seems to him to be the best of both worlds.

He is above the middle 50% at his #1 school (1380 Avg. SAT vs. his converted 1520), but doesn't feel that the odds of his of getting one of only 4 full rides offered is very good. He loves the school, loves the club team, and is "liking" the idea of ROTC. The idea is still very new to him, and at this point he probably couldn't articulate his desire to be an officer if someone held a gun to his head. He'll have to roll this around in his head for a while to see if it makes sense for him. He can clearly see the benefits, but I think wants to make sure he's motivated by more than the scholarship before diving in.

He has not yet ruled out the others schools, and firm $ offers could figure into his decision. None of the 4 colleges have ROTC, by the way, so he'll have to come up with a completely new college list if he applies for the scholarship. That has him a little stressed. To add another level of complication, he is a recruited swimmer as well, but at the moment doesn't think he wants to swim in college. That could probably also change.

So, to make a long story short (too late, I know!) - we're just really starting to look at ROTC as an option, and trying to see if it's worthwhile for him pursue the scholarship. It's likely we would not be able to afford his #1 school any other way. As a mom, I'd like for him to have the opportunity to fall in love with other schools if it looks like this is a long shot. He has a list of other schools he likes, but he's already "bought the hoodie" so to speak.

Thanks again for all of the help, and any other insights are welcome!

Army ROTC for HS Graduating Class 2011

Jcc123, It is not late if your son is a Jr in HS. Right on schedule in my opinion. If all documents are submitted and interview complete in August or September of 2010 the records will be considered by the 1st AROTC board for Academic School year 11-12.