Nomination Logistics Questions

Hi all,

I've applied to both USNA and USAFA directly. I also applied for nominations from my congressman and one of my senators. I was asked to rank my choices for academies, and did ON BOTH NOMINATION APPLICATIONS in the following manner:

1. USNA
2. USAFA
3. USMA
4. USMMA
(At the time, I truly felt this way.)

Was this a mistake? Should I have sent different preferences to each of the nominating sources? I feel like that would have been dishonest. The reason I must ask is because I've been nominated to USNA by my congressman. I do not need another USNA nomination from my senator. In fact, I need a USAFA nomination from her. But I indicated to her office that USNA was my first choice and USAFA was my second choice. I asked her office if I could change my preferences, and the answer I got was a no.

This leaves me with three questions:

- Will my Senator's office realize that I'm already nominated to USNA, thus hesitating to give me a nomination their and give it to another deserving candidate?

- Will my Senator's office realize that I have completed an application to USAFA and now need a nomination there more than I need a nomination to USNA?

- If I'm nominated again to USNA, can I ask one of my nominating sources to change that nomination to a USAFA one?

I'm truly stressed out over this issue because the more I really look deep in to both of the services, I realize that the Air Force has much more appeal to me than the Navy. I would be proud and willing to serve in the Navy, but the Air Force has now become my first choice.

Thank you for advice!

Take a deep breath thehoaxbuster. . . .

Sounds like you have done everything you can at this point and now you need to wait and see what happens, especially since you have asked the MOC to change your SA preferences and they declined. Remember that in most states a Senatorial nomination is much more difficult to get than a Congressional nomination.

Additionally, consider that just because you have a nomination to USNA does not mean you will get an appointment. The more appointments you receive to the same SA the more opportunities for an appointment. It sounds like you applied to the SA's based on your preferences at the time. If you can see yourself being a successful Navy officer, you are in a good position. If USAFA becomes an option then that's just icy on the cake. As to your last question, I have read of candidates getting their nomination changed to a different SA but wait to see if you even rank high enough to receive a Senatorial nomination.

Sometimes the MOCs talk, do you know if they talk?

Every area is different. For some states that are highly competitive they "talk" so they can spread the wealth, and traditionally that means 1 nom out of the 3.

For other MOCs that "talk" they do it to spread your noms out. In other words, you can get one nom to USMA from Sen A., one for AFA from Sen. B and one for the USNA from your Cong.

I personally know of a cadet at the USNA that was able to get the nom switched. Here's the big BUT, the reason he could was because he gave principals, and found out that the candidate who got the principal for USNA wanted AFA, and he wanted USNA, but got AFA.

It happens, but it is not something to count on.

It would appear that since your MOC said no, they are doing competitive which means they would have to get someone off of the AFA list that really wanted to be on the USNA list...that would mean a lot of manpower hours contacting candidates and trying to re-work the list. Think about it they call Candidate Smith and ask if they are willing to switch over to the USNA, they say no, but would take a USMA slot. Now how do they go through this process for you, and not for them? Do you see how it could spiral completely out of control?

Additionally, if that slate has been submitted already to the USNA, they would need to get them involved, and for all you know every candidate on the slate has been awarded their WCS, thus the apptmt has been awarded. What if that apptmt was for a candidate that just switched off the list? It means more work for the USNA.

Finally Blackbird is correct, you need every nom available because the highest WCS wins the apptmt. Just because you have a nom does not equate into an apptmt.

This is being discussed on another thread currently. The fact is there are 2000 candidates that are 3 Q with a nom, yet only 1600 apptmts. That leaves 400 out in the rain. The more noms you have the easier it is for the SAs to get you in because if you don't win the Cong's slate, you are now still there on the Sens slate.

I've emailed the Senator's office with the simple request that they change my preference rank. If they nominate me to USNA, I feel like I'll do one of the following:

- Call my senator's office asking if they will kindly find a way to switch the nomination to USAFA

- Call my congressman's office asking if they would switch the nomination to AFA.

I live in a fairly populous district in Washington State, so this could be tricky. It's jsut that every day, I'm finding more and more that I should have put AFA as my first choice. I want to be a pilot, and while catapulting off a carrier would be a great way to serve my country, I feel that the Air Force has more options available to me if I end up not qualifying for a pilot slot.

And I know this is a really silly question, but what does the acronym MOC stand for?

Also, If I decide that I'd truly be happier as an Air Force officer than a Naval officer, I could decide to go to regular college for a year and try and transfer in to AFA.

As low as the USAFA acceptance rate is all ready, would it be further lowered for me being a transfer student who has already applied once? My qualifications would be increased if I waited another year (i.e. I'd have a stronger resume for sure).

thehoaxbuster said:

Also, If I decide that I'd truly be happier as an Air Force officer than a Naval officer, I could decide to go to regular college for a year and try and transfer in to AFA.

As low as the USAFA acceptance rate is all ready, would it be further lowered for me being a transfer student who has already applied once? My qualifications would be increased if I waited another year (i.e. I'd have a stronger resume for sure).

Click to expand...

No, your chances as a second-time applier will actually increase. Not only does it look favorably towards admissions that you are trying again (shows your desire), but, as you stated, your overall application will probably be much stronger.

Good grades on a college transcript, I believe, can speak very highly of you, much more so than the SAT's or your high school transcripts. It shows that you can handle college work and manage your time wisely, which his important to an SA, as it is a college environment.

Peter is correct 2nd timers seem to have better odds because it shows that commitment to wanting an SA education even if it means graduating later in life.

MOC = Members Of Congress...Senator and Congressman.

WA state is not classified at least for the AFA as one of those competitive states.

For the AF when you say competitive it usually is:
CA, CO, TX, NY, FL and VA.

Traditionally what makes a state competitive is a mixture of things, but they usually have some commonalities.

Lots of military bases/posts in the state
SA in that state
Population...every Congressman has the @ same number of constituents, but every state regardless of size always has 2 Senators, that makes getting those noms more competitive in more populated states....ND has 2 Senators just like CA, but CA has more people than ND.

That being said because of Whidbey and if you live near it you could find that for your area it is very popular to apply to an SA. It could also be competitive for the USNA and not for the AFA. Just like if you were from San Antonio TX is probably more competitive for the AFA over the USNA because they have an AF military connection there.

Where you live can be a player in the competitiveness for all of the SAs or just one.

One more consideration to add to Pima's wisdom. If you choose to go to college next year, join the college's ROTC unit and work hard to get an ROTC nomination to USAFA. (Yes, ROTC is another non-congressional nomination source).

Here is a link to other acronyms that you will inevitably need.

If I'm in NJROTC, can I have my unit leader nominate me to USAFA?

Yes I think so, here is the thread with the details but I do not know when the deadline is.

Alright, I have a feeling that if I'm appointed to USNA and not USAFA (no nomination), that I would consider denying my USNA appointment to reapply to USAFA the next year.

But if I did that, I'd have to be REALLY sure that I want to go to USAFA, and that I could get in. I'll briefly outline my reasons for now leaning toward AFA. Would you please comment on this and tell me if I am taking a realistic approach to my aspirations?

First and foremost: I want to be a military pilot. I'd like to fly fighters, but I find the Air Force's large variety of aircraft (B1s, F-16s, U2s, C17s) all appealing. In talking to my ALO and BGO, I got the impression that I had a much better chance of a pilot slot through AFA and would likely have a wider choice of aircraft if I did well in UPT.

Second: I feel a calling to the USAF due to familial ties to aeronautics, and USAF demonstrations that inspired me to pursue aviation in the first place.

Third: I have no idea what the future holds in terms of having a family. If I do, being on a ship for 6+months could be wildly stressful and/or problematic.

Fourth: I also have the desire to pursue a graduate degree at some point in the future, and have gathered from my ALO that this can be easier done while serving in the USAF than the Navy. I've always wanted to study astronautical engineering, and have serious intentions of applying my skills toward some career in the space exploration industry either while in the military or after retiring.

thehoaxbuster said:

First and foremost: I want to be a military pilot. I'd like to fly fighters, but I find the Air Force's large variety of aircraft (B1s, F-16s, U2s, C17s) all appealing. In talking to my ALO and BGO, I got the impression that I had a much better chance of a pilot slot through AFA and would likely have a wider choice of aircraft if I did well in UPT.

Click to expand...

And if you were accepted into the USAFA and commissioned as an Air Force Officer but not a pilot, how would you feel? You still have 5 years to serve.

Luigi is correct, how would you feel if you don't get to be a pilot? Would you still want to be in the AF?

You need to want to wear the blues, because 1st and foremost your not a pilot, you are a USAF officer.

Next, the grad school always comes up, but now that yo say you want to go to grad school, you need to realize that if you go directly out of the AFA you will delay UPT. This will be your full time job, it is an assignment. There is a way to go at night, but that is a whole different conversation.

You also need to realize that MPC will tell you as a flier that to have a promotable career you will need to take a desk assignment. It is incredibly rare for any AF officer to spend 20 yrs flying and make O5/O6. The only people I know who have accomplished this were Weapon School (WIC) grads. Now go back to delaying UPT for grad school; by doing that it is highly unlikely you will go to WIC, and thus, you are back to somewhere taking a desk assignment.

That is why people will tell you that it is important to want to serve in that branch, goals in that branch are good and you should strive for them, but the bigger desire is to serve in that branch and not only because of your goal.

First, I fully understand the purpose of going to AFA/USNA, and would willingly serve in the Air Force/Navy however they would ask. This is one reason that I'm starting to lean toward the Air Force. If I'm not a pilot, there are more non-pilot opportunities for me that fit to my interest of aerospace engineering. I plan on serving for at least 15 to 20 years. If that means I only spend about 10 years actually flying, I'm okay with that.

Do you feel that my reasoning for now leaning toward the Air Force over the Navy is valid? If so, would it be a terrible idea for me to deny a possible appointment to USNA and reapply to USAFA (this time with a nomination), having a year of university under my belt?

thehoaxbuster said:

I plan on serving for at least 15 to 20 years. If that means I only spend about 10 years actually flying, I'm okay with that.

Click to expand...

What if you spend zero years flying, are you OK with that?

Do you feel that my reasoning for now leaning toward the Air Force over the Navy is valid? If so, would it be a terrible idea for me to deny a possible appointment to USNA and reapply to USAFA (this time with a nomination), having a year of university under my belt?

Click to expand...

I know you want direction, BUT nobody can answer that question for you, only you can.

You have to say to yourself that the chance...notice CHANCE is key that getting AFA is worth turning down USNA now.

Do not let anyone sway you, just take the time and ask if I get the worst assignment from both, which would be more bearable for 5 yrs 24/7/365 days?

Seriously this is your life, take the time, breathe and think where you want to be at 24,25 or 26...boat or runway?

Talk to your folks, they know you better than us, they know what fits you.

Luigi59 said:

What if you spend zero years flying, are you OK with that?

Click to expand...

Of course. Let me rephrase my question. Is my reasoning for tending to lean toward the Air Force, in any career field (flying or not) strong enough to deny a possible appointment to USNA and reapply to USAFA (this time with nomination)?

If u want a SA experience and are darn lucky enough to get an appointment, take it to USNA then cross commission at graduation if u still feel that way. Annapolis is nice!

Okay. Today I received a second nomination to USNA, this time from my senator. I now have two USNA nominations, despite applying to both USNA and USAFA, and at this point having an equal/undecided desire for each branch of the military.

I know EXACTLY why I received two nominations to the same school: I indicated USNA as my first choice for both of my nominating sources. Despite the fact that I did not know for sure which branch I can more easily see myself as an officer, I felt that it was more honest and certainly more consistent to put identical preferences for each nominating source.

At this point, having applied to both academies and still not completely sure of which I'd rather attend, I am tempted to follow a couple courses of action:

1. I could simply ask my congressman or senator if they are able and willing to change a nomination for me. Long shot.

2. If I end up firmly deciding that the Air Force is where I truly want to serve, and where I envision myself being a more productive and successful military officer, I could simply deny a possible appointment to USNA and reapply next year with a firmer understanding of where I want to go. (MUCH LONGER SHOT!!!!)

Any advice?

Furthermore, is it wrong to put indicate differing academy preferences to the nominating sources? I'm almost sure that this is commonly done among applicants applying to all three academies. Thoughts?

Option 1.
Try the first nom source since you've already ask the second to consider you for the USAFA.
Call your ALO and ask for suggestions.
Call your regional rep at the USAFA and ask for suggestions.
Pray.
Good Luck.