I can't believe this...

I'm slightly disturbed that this is now allowed. If you read through the comments you will see that I'm not the only one. I see this as the courts caving to religion. To me this ruling could have potentially dangerous consequences. Someone in the comments made a good point. He said "why can't children of Scottish and Germanic decent wear swords to school? The sword is a integral part of Scottish and Germanic ceremonies." Essentially implying a double standard. The article by itself is fairly tame. However just read through the comments to get a better feel for the public opinion. Also as a note Sikhs and Muslims are not the same or related.

"ANTON TOWNSHIP, Mich. (WJBK) - A Detroit-area district says Sikh students are permitted to wear a small, religious dagger to school.

The decision by the Plymouth-Canton Community Schools reverses a ban put in place in December after a fourth-grader at a Canton Township elementary school was found with a dull, 3- to 5-inch kirpan.

FOX 2's Robin Schwartz reports the kirpan represents a commitment to fight evil . After males are baptized, members of the faith, which originated in South Asia in the 15th century, are expected to carry the symbol all the time.

The principal initially let the boy keep the kirpan, but the school board instituted a ban because of parental concerns and conflicts with the district's rules against bringing weapons to school.

-The Associated Press contributed to this report"



http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/new...istrict-allows-ceremonial-dagger-20110201-mr#

Where does one balance freedom of religion and the schools' desire to be able to control their campus (and or state/municiple laws on weapons)?

It's a tough call.

does anyone notice a double standard? Sikhs are allowed to express their religion by carrying a WEAPON to school, yet Christians are not allowed to express their religion by merely saying "Merry Christmas" in school (In my local high school I have it from a good source that one would be suspended for saying merry Christmas). Plus, my brother is not allowed to wear his patriotic, US Army shirt just because it has a picture of an M-16 on it...Political correctness at its worst. Of course, I'm all for religious freedom for all peoples, as long as the same standard is applyed to all.

raimius said:

Where does one balance freedom of religion and the schools' desire to be able to control their campus (and or state/municiple laws on weapons)?

It's a tough call.

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We're confusing "freedom of religion". Its to prevent the state from sponsoring a religion. It does not mean I can snake-handle in kindergarden...

I agree Condor. I have heard stories where kids are suspended b/c they brought their BSA pocket knives to school. A friend of mine once told me that at his school a guy got suspended b/c he brought a G.I. joe gun to school to show his friends. Like you I am for religious freedom but please.......for once a little consistency would be nice.

Let's also be fair, there are thousands of school districts in this country and a single district doesn't represent them all. I remember my own high school didn't have any of these rules being cited and was fairly thoughtful about good policy.

Michigan does have a rather large population of Arab-speaking ethnicities...might simply have been something to do with pleasing constituents

LineInTheSand said:

We're confusing "freedom of religion". Its to prevent the state from sponsoring a religion. It does not mean I can snake-handle in kindergarden...

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I think raimus was right. There are actually two religion clauses in the First Amendment: The Free Exercise Clause and the Establishment Clause. I don't have time to give the full explanation, but here's the wiki link on the law which is accurate: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Establishment_Clause_of_the_First_Amendment

This is not an Establishment Clause issue. raimus got it right that the right of the individual (Free Exercise of Religion) is balanced against the interests of the state. It gets really complicated!

But I am sooooooo surprised that you guys aren't discussing THIS newstory that emerged today ---> http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=23845 (Air Force Academy faculty file suit to block prayer event)

patentesq said:

But I am sooooooo surprised that you guys aren't discussing THIS newstory that emerged today ---> http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/news.aspx?id=23845 (Air Force Academy faculty file suit to block prayer event)

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Meh. Never had anything like that while I was there, so this would be something, if a violation, that is an outlier rather than the norm. I can only imagine it is senior faculty since they would likely be the ones with an invitation. Otherwise, I'd agree that the "voluntariness" wouldn't hurt anyone.

Perhaps the way it was announced could have been done more delicately? I don't know the details and the article is pretty sparse on those, but I don't see anything wrong on the surface.

It is being discussed in the USAFA sub-forum.

I hope the lawsuit fails. From what I've read, they have a pretty weak case, IMO.

That MRFF would do this doesn't surprise me in the least.

I think the Cladheamh Mor (Claymore) is out of style for daily wear with the Celts. Don't know about the Germanic tribes. But if you wear your kilts to school you should be allowed the Sgian dubh.

AF6872 said:

I think the Cladheamh Mor (Claymore) is out of style for daily wear with the Celts. Don't know about the Germanic tribes. But if you wear your kilts to school you should be allowed the Sgian dubh.

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One big difference. I don't think these were worn due to any religious belief.

kevster said:

I agree Condor. I have heard stories where kids are suspended b/c they brought their BSA pocket knives to school. A friend of mine once told me that at his school a guy got suspended b/c he brought a G.I. joe gun to school to show his friends. Like you I am for religious freedom but please.......for once a little consistency would be nice.

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My son was suspended in 5th grade because he was wearing a field jacket of mine that had a pocket knife in it to school. It may have been a 2" long pocket knife, it belonged to me. The pocket knife fell out of the pocket during recess, a girl in his class saw it, she told the teacher, the teacher had to report it to the principal. The principal called the state police, they were going to file charges against him for having a weapon. My brother who was an FBI Agent made a call to the State Police and they dropped it. It was totally ridiculous, the kid was never in trouble, he was an "A" student, an athlete, and just an overall great kid. Today he is at USAFA. That whole episode could have derailed him. To this day I look at that Principal with disdain. Everyone says how great he is, but to me, anyone that would screw a kid over something that really was not his fault (my son did not even know that pocket knife was in the top pocket of the field jacket) is an idiot. The Assistant Principal tried to intervene on my son's behalf, but that moron would not hear of it.

to me this story is a perfect example of the fact that your rights will only be represented if you are a minority. (or perhaps represented better)

elds said:

to me this story is a perfect example of the fact that your rights will only be represented if you are a minority. (or perhaps represented better)

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Wait, what? I don't get that at all.

I'm still upset about the fact I got in trouble, on multiple occasions, for wearing a Hooter's shirt to school. They have some might fine hot wings.