I'm an MOT (shopper) grad from the second year it was offered, and while the Dual program was still available. I think it was and still is the best program at the Academy. I have never used my QMED endorsement, and only know a few grads who have, but I use the engineering skills I learned both in class and as an engine cadet during sea year EVERY DAY. After graduation sailing as third mate through Master those skills and knowledge improved my relationship with the engineer 1000%, and made my job as a mate much easier and much more productive and fun. I sailed for several years as chief mate on older ships that were quite "hands on," and as mate was responsible for the operation and maintenance of hatch covers, hydraulic systems, etc. and the fact that I could weld, rebuild a hydraulic motor, diagnose and repair electrical systems, do my own pipefitting, etc. without running to the engineers (who had plenty to do in their own department,) moved me up very fast. I am certain that I would not have sailed as Chief Mate at 24, or had my Master's license at 25 as a straight deckie! The other questions I ask midshipman who are unsure about their choice is "Do you ever plan to own a house? A car? Anything with a switch, a pump, or a motor?" All of the engineering skills you learn give you a huge advantage in life outside of ships......I could go on about this topic forever, but the point that I think bears repeating is that I still use the skills I learned as a shopper every day, 16 years after graduation...
Yeah, it just seems the logical thing to me for deckies to understand basic engineering. I mean, it is the Deck department who needs the engines, so I should at least have some knowledge of what makes my engines work. Kinda like Sir Admiral Max Horton, he was primarily deck for the Royal Navy, but knew how his engines worked. I want to be a Deck officer who understands what goes on below. Too bad on the QMED, but hey, I'll still go for MOT!
sailing as third mate through Master those skills and knowledge improved my relationship with the engineer 1000%
the fact that I could weld, rebuild a hydraulic motor, diagnose and repair electrical systems, do my own pipefitting, etc. without running to the engineers (who had plenty to do in their own department,) moved me up very fast.
I wholeheartedly agree.. a 'working knowledge' of engineering will vastly improve your relationship with the engineers because, for one thing, it'll keep you from damaging or destroying equipment that they'll have to fix.
it can also get you into trouble...
While welding, pipe fitting, electrical repair and troubleshooting and other engineering skills are important and beneficial to know, you might run into jurisdictional problems with engineering unions if, as a deck officer, you use those skills to do a job that is typically done by the 'black gang'. This is particularly true on ships that have separate deck and engine unions representing the officers. If you did any of that work on a ship that had MFOW unlicensed union engineers on board, I guarantee you'd be look a SERIOUS labor beef.
though I was on a union ship once where the C/E asked me to weld something that he couldn't.......
What was wrong with the assistant engineers?? couldn't they weld for pete sake!!!
I wholeheartedly agree.. a 'working knowledge' of engineering will vastly improve your relationship with the engineers because, for one thing, it'll keep you from damaging or destroying equipment that they'll have to fix.
it can also get you into trouble...
While welding, pipe fitting, electrical repair and troubleshooting and other engineering skills are important and beneficial to know, you might run into jurisdictional problems with engineering unions if, as a deck officer, you use those skills to do a job that is typically done by the 'black gang'. This is particularly true on ships that have separate deck and engine unions representing the officers. If you did any of that work on a ship that had MFOW unlicensed union engineers on board, I guarantee you'd be look a SERIOUS labor beef.
Working outside your jurisdiction can also be seen as taking away overtime from the engineers (both licensed and unlicensed)and consequently messing with their 'rice bowl', and they're not going to be very happy about that. Believe me, they would much rather be 'turning to' on 'oscar tango' than enjoying umbrella drinks on the Lido Deck.. right cmakin?
One other thing.. I think it’s equally important that the engineers have an understanding of what we do in the deck department. However, what I’ve experienced in 34 years going to sea, is your average engineer has no clue about ‘stability and trim’, navigation, weather routing, shiphandling or seamanship in general and most would prefer to keep it that way.
I will say that KP did a decent job in giving us, as engineers, an idea of what general seamanship and navigation (at least piloting) skills are required "upstairs" with both the early introduction to Nautical Science during Plebe year and the Sea Project.
deepsea said:though I was on a union ship once where the C/E asked me to weld something that he couldn't.......
deepdraft1 said:What was wrong with the assistant engineers?? couldn't they weld for pete sake!!!
deepsea said:Nope. Interesting trip...
Amen to that! Just last week I had to teach the mate how to do an eye splice.
Maybe the engineers that deepsea was sailing with were spending too much time on the 'art of knotting and splicing' and not enough time perfecting their own 'craft'..
'splice the main brace'..Or having boat drinks on the Lido Deck.