USMA Separated & Recoupment

Hi,

I was separated from USMA in 2005. Part of this meant paying recoupment (174,000 for four years).

Well, the Army never got to me and never sent me a bill. Until now, in 2011, six years later!

So, needless to say, I'm freaking out because I've gone about and lived my life and have a family and all now. I just want to know what to expect here, how one repays this stuff, what your experience has been with DFAS.

Is there anyone in this boat, or similar boat? Anyone who's been dealing with recoupment payments?


I could really, really, use your advice. I just want to settle anxiety as to what this is all going to entail.

- ex cadet, 2005

USMA Seperated & Recoupment

mrod305

If I understand what your saying here you seperated after you began your junior (2C) year. It is my understanding that when you are going to begin your 3rd year. You must sign another set of documents, which states if you leave for any reason. You must pay the SA (ie; government back.) I have had some folks tell me too, that should this happen. They might give you an option in go into the enlisted ranks. I strongly suggest that you review any documentation, that you signed from when you started all this from applying to the academy to seperation. As far as them catching up to you now. Well, they have now. Let us know, how it turns out. Two words we all need to remember accountability and responsibility.

RGK

mrod305 said:

Hi,

I was separated from USMA in 2005. Part of this meant paying recoupment (174,000 for four years).

Well, the Army never got to me and never sent me a bill. Until now, in 2011, six years later!

So, needless to say, I'm freaking out because I've gone about and lived my life and have a family and all now. I just want to know what to expect here, how one repays this stuff, what your experience has been with DFAS.

Is there anyone in this boat, or similar boat? Anyone who's been dealing with recoupment payments?


I could really, really, use your advice. I just want to settle anxiety as to what this is all going to entail.

- ex cadet, 2005

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Why were you separated from West Point?

The easiest way to scare off a new poster -- who may actually have something valuable to add to discussion -- is to bombard with reprimand and intrusive questioning that doesn't bear on the issue he/she brought to the table.

Cadets are separated for many reasons -- academic, permanent medical conditions (e.g., discovery of flat feet), failure of physical fitness testing -- in addition to the disciplinary causes that jump first to many people's minds. With some separations, the cadet must perform service as an enlisted; with others, he or she must reimburse the Army, as here; still others can walk away without further obligation.

This former cadet isn't asking to avoid responsibility, but for anyone's experience in managing a huge debt payable at once to a faceless government agency-- a frightening proposition for a twenty-something with other responsibilities to face. If you got a tax bill that size, you would try to find out whether there were possibilities for partial forgiveness, payment over time, or other arrangements that made something other than bankruptcy a choice. This forum tends to have two or three "lurkers' for every one who posts. The outcome of his situation may well affect the decisions of other young men and women come cow year. If you can help with advice and experience, please add it. Let's not scare him off.

In my experience with having to pay back the gov't (I've been overpaid more times that I care to remember) they have allowed me to set up various payment plans. The most I've ever been offered was a three year plan for when they overpaid me nearly $15,000 over a year.

I have no direct experience with recoupment for your type of situation, but my guess is they will either offer you a plan of some type or you may be forced to take out a personal loan if they want it all in one lump sum.

SeaMars said:

If you got a tax bill that size, you would try to find out whether there were possibilities for partial forgiveness, payment over time, or other arrangements that made something other than bankruptcy a choice.

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Monies owed because cadet did not fulfill a later military service requirement are not dischargable under Chapter 7 or Chapter 13 bankruptcy.

Having never dealt with this myself, I can't offer much in the way of specifics. Perhaps you might contact USMA? I'm sure someone there in the personnel offices is at least somewhat familiar with this. That might put a face/name to the situation so you aren't dealing with some bureaucratic edifice in Indianapolis or Rome or whichever DFAS office is handling it.

SeaMars said:

The easiest way to scare off a new poster -- who may actually have something valuable to add to discussion -- is to bombard with reprimand and intrusive questioning that doesn't bear on the issue he/she brought to the table.

Cadets are separated for many reasons -- academic, permanent medical conditions (e.g., discovery of flat feet), failure of physical fitness testing -- in addition to the disciplinary causes that jump first to many people's minds. With some separations, the cadet must perform service as an enlisted; with others, he or she must reimburse the Army, as here; still others can walk away without further obligation.

This former cadet isn't asking to avoid responsibility, but for anyone's experience in managing a huge debt payable at once to a faceless government agency-- a frightening proposition for a twenty-something with other responsibilities to face. If you got a tax bill that size, you would try to find out whether there were possibilities for partial forgiveness, payment over time, or other arrangements that made something other than bankruptcy a choice. This forum tends to have two or three "lurkers' for every one who posts. The outcome of his situation may well affect the decisions of other young men and women come cow year. If you can help with advice and experience, please add it. Let's not scare him off.

Click to expand...

Thanks, and you're right. The reasons of my separation are not relevant to my question. The point is I was separated and the government determined I owe recoupment. I was not given an opportunity to serve in the Army as an enlisted soldier due to medical reasons (independent of my separation; but lets ignore that messy complication. I'm not trying to "get over" and not recoup; but I am trying to find out how one goes about this in a just manner.

Fact is, I owe $174,000 for my educational expenses (which exclude military costs, barracks, and food). DFAS gives me 10 years to pay, and supposedly at that rate I would have to pay about $1,750 per month, for 10 years. I obviously can't afford this monthly amount as a young man! It amounts to about 50% of my after-tax monthly income!

Well, DFAS does allow for me to claim "financial hardship" and reduce my payments. I'll try this, and likely will have a reduction. But obviously this kicks the can down the road though. If I continue to kick the can, because I obviously can't afford the monthly rate, what happens after 10 years? What happens if there's a balance after that time? What have other former cadets experienced with this?

And please, don't speculate. I only need answers based on actual experiences.

Thanks!

-ex-cadet '05

I don't have anything helpful that I can contribute, mrod305, but I just wish you the best as you try to get this sorted out.

I think you need to get some good legal advice, but it has to be an attorney with military expertise. We've all seen the commercials from attorneys offering to negotiate tax problems with the IRS. Maybe something can be made of the fact that your separate medical condition precluded enlisted service. Also find out if they can garnish your wages, or withhold other federal benefits like college financial aid (probably so), social security, and medicare.

It sounds like they charge you a low interest rate, and if so I would stretch the payments out as long as possible. $1750/month would be a hardship for almost anyone.

Hi,

I am in the same boat as of 2015.
I was a senior, completed my degree even, was turned back a year, and still was separated and told I could not serve. Reason being alcohol. Not "things I did while under the influence." I was a young over stressed 22 y/o that didn't know he was an alcoholic and repeatedly got in trouble all my senior year. I then finally went to rehab, came back to West point and was kicked out all while still remaining sober since rehab. In fact I am still sober to this day.

The amount for me started at ~223k.
I attempted to file financial hardships and was rejected multiple times despite filling out the paperwork correctly.

The amount has been turned over to Dept. Of Treasury and is at~300k

I've never even been able to afford a single monthly payment on it at $1,900/mo.

I now have my life back on track with a good job, had to go through 2 years of college again because I still never obtained my degree and you can't just walk into any college and get a degree. I've graduated and am now married with a new born.

I've worked multiple jobs at a time all the while going to school full time.

I have found no solution and no open line of communication to resolve my debt. I am willing to serve in any way possible if it means I can get rid of the debt.

If any one has found any advice or any contact, I am desperate.

If you were my son, I would tell him to call an attorney to get the kind of specialized advice you are seeking here.

Soldiergriz said:

If you were my son, I would tell him to call an attorney to get the kind of specialized advice you are seeking here.

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Thank you, while that was the first avenue I went down to pursue this issue, it was quickly discouraging.
Many people hear the amount and they hear "I don't want to take responsibility for this." When in reality, I want to serve my obligation yet as more time passes the less realistic it becomes. So instead I want to find a mutual solution, one other than an impossible monetary sentence.

I came here primarily as a shot in the dark but I do appreciate your response and it may be worth revisiting.

If you haven't done so, I would see if you can find a lawyer who is a former JAG or one who specializes in military law. I believe military newspapers such as Army Times have advertisements for such companies.

There is one college you can go to with credits and get a degree....Thomas Edison State College in NJ.

Thomas Edison State University has one of the most flexible transfer credit policies in the country.

• If you studied at a regionally accredited community college, you may transfer and apply up to 80 credits.
• If you studied at a regionally accredited four-year institution, you may transfer and apply up to 117 credits.

I will second what @bopper suggested. TESC is an excellent option for the untraditional student which would include this situation. It is in NJ, but you do not have to move to NJ since most of their offerings are online.

Rando123 said:

I now have my life back on track with a good job, had to go through 2 years of college again because I still never obtained my degree and you can't just walk into any college and get a degree. I've graduated and am now married with a new born.

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I read the above that he HAS received his degree. I agree that Thomas Edison and Charter Oak are both good public colleges that offer a solution for those who are close to the finish line.

+1 to AROTC-dad. While that info may be useful to lurkers the person who restarted this thread has already graduated from college. There is no ther way to read the post.

Yes, I have already went back to college and I have graduated.

I appreciate all the responses. Ultimately my actions got me to where I am today. I made poor decisions in my past and those decisions turned into a terrible habit. Alcohol had a pretty serious grip on me and it really took the opportunity for self reflection in a serious environment to help me come out of that.

Regardless, if I were to have graduated and commissioned without getting the proper help, I would put myself and others at a higher risk.

My life today may not be class and brass but through sobriety I've re-gained my faith and through my faith I've been able to live life on life's terms.

There is no denying my faults but there is no ignoring the things I've accomplished once I made it through that time in my life.

Rando123 said:

Yes, I have already went back to college and I have graduated.

I appreciate all the responses. Ultimately my actions got me to where I am today. I made poor decisions in my past and those decisions turned into a terrible habit. Alcohol had a pretty serious grip on me and it really took the opportunity for self reflection in a serious environment to help me come out of that.

Regardless, if I were to have graduated and commissioned without getting the proper help, I would put myself and others at a higher risk.

My life today may not be class and brass but through sobriety I've re-gained my faith and through my faith I've been able to live life on life's terms.

There is no denying my faults but there is no ignoring the things I've accomplished once I made it through that time in my life.

Click to expand...

Whoever you are Rando123 - congratulations on getting the help you needed and for overcoming your personal demons.

I’m in sort of the same boat as you. Dropped for an academic board two days before graduation (was going to be class of 2015). Finished college two years later (another financial pain) now have a fantastic job making really good money...so I could not claim financial hardship. Unfortunately I have reached all dead ends with ways to lower my payments. They wanted all the money in the next four years ($289,941.99). They have been keeping my tax returns since 2015 as well. They would not let me request lower payments so I’m chunking out 6 grand every month. I don’t want to even talk to the DFAS people, lawyers, anyone connected to that world because I cannot get sucked back into it for my own sanity. I’d rather bite the bullet and take it up the tailpipe until they leave me alone. I refused to enlist for personal issues with how things were handled within the army. I went through legal battles for 2 years after my separation to get back in and all were not successful and pushed me into a dark place in my life. Literally the plan was to just shoot myself in the face and leave a check for the full amount taped to my corpse...but I was fortunate to get the mental help I needed. And I am embarrassed to admit that I was that broken by this whole ordeal. The academy was everything to me and I put way too much stock in that making me happy. When it went away I thought I was worthless. I never had any disciplinary actions taken against me as a cadet besides walking 5 hours for being late to class. I just struggled with a rigorous major and didn’t use all my resources early on and didn’t ask for help. I made one D senior year and that board did me in (I had one academic board previously Yuk year).

BLUF: recoupment is a sticky mess that I can’t get around. I’ll just be financially destitute for a long time until I can cash out on my 401k early to pay the remaining balance off. I’m probably one of the few people in the world to go to an elite school, get a degree in mechanical engineering, work for one of the largest medical diagnostics companies in the world, and still not have enough money to my name to rent a $400 studio apartment. Ive been living with my grandparents so I can care for my grandfather with Alzheimer’s and I have the best fiancé in the world. She’d walk through hellfire and spit in Satan’s soup if I asked her to. She saved my life. It’s not ideal but better than some folks have it. Life will keep kicking you when you’re down but you can find happiness if you know where to look. No problem I encounter can break me anymore. I’m going to be finically set once I pay this off so it will be ok.

I just joined this forum so I don’t know if you can PM me but If you ever need someone to talk to or just shoot the breeze I’m here for you always!