Just Wondering

I'm wondering if anybody would know what chances my son will have at receiving the NROTC scholarship. Clearly he will be like the many that apply; however, some details may give a better idea on where he stands.

3.64 GPA
NHS
AP Classes - Bio and Phy
Currently Classes - Cal, Physics, Student Teach Under AD, etc.
Team Captain - Team of 92 athletes - Voted into position by the athletes
Link Crew Leader
AD Select for Region Sports Leadership
Varsity lettered in three sports
Volunteer coach for two different athletic youth programs
Volunteer referee
Volunteer beach clean-up
Volenteer at a middle school to promote learning other languages
Volenteer at several fund raisers
Volenteer for incoming freshman to inform them on sports venues within the school
Jr. Lifeguard certified
Certified Babysitter
Hunter Education Certified
Well you get the picture, there is much more but I hope this is enough...

His application was very detailed before it was sent and his essays were outstanding.
Wants to study Mechanical Engineering in college.

The last piece was the interview where the interviewing officer (very high active ranking type, "VERY HIGH", got lucky) gave him a glowing review and nailed all 5's.

I understand there will be no firm answers; however, as a father I want to give him guidance and feedback if the chances are slim.

Thank you....

ACT/SAT?

gojack said:

ACT/SAT?

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You stole my question.

I would imagine they will need to be high considering the GPA and depending on his class ranking.

Nice, that would help...thanks

SAT - lower 700 range on each.
Class Rank - Top 16%

Plans on retaking the SAT, he thinks he could do better. He will also take the ACT this month.

Retake? Why? He did really well. He looks like a good candidate to me.

Thank you...

Regarding the retake, I said the same thing; however, he feels he did not do all that he could do. I hope he is a good candidate but I'm certain that all these kids have alot to offer.

It's difficult to find any good information on how the system works.

On the proud side of things, I'm third generation enlisted he is 4th. generation and the first as an officer.

Blacklab said:

Regarding the retake, I said the same thing; however, he feels he did not do all that he could do.

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He sounds like a strong candidate to me. More leadership positions can't hurt. Also, it can't hurt to retake the SAT. He has nothing to lose. Finally, you didn't mention his PFT scores so I assume he hasn't taken it yet. Make sure he is working out and ready... although I suspect he already is.

Kinnem

All the best to your son, while I served I had the opportunity to be around a bunch of Marines, great guys. I'm also originally from NY, I knew 22 firemen that went down in the towers. Two of them were very close friends of mine and both were Marines. God speed to your son.

Blacklab said:

Regarding the retake, I said the same thing; however, he feels he did not do all that he could do. I hope he is a good candidate but I'm certain that all these kids have alot to offer.

It's difficult to find any good information on how the system works.

On the proud side of things, I'm third generation enlisted he is 4th. generation and the first as an officer.

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If he feels he can do better then by all means retake it. Ya a PFT score would be nice to see. However, if he has decent cardio endurance, lifts and or does sport work-outs he should be fine.

PFT

He was told that the PFT will happen once he gets the word on the NROTC application. He has the requirements on what's expected which he began working on in March. Right now he has a 12:47 two mile run, once soccer is over he starts indoor track and then in January crew starts. This is where almost all cardio endurance will come together. He uses an erg a few times a week and come March he will row on the water every day this will rounds off the year. If you know anything about the erg he pulls a 7:11 2k. He want to get that down to a 6:30 this year, he has been working on that since June. I'm confident he will post a very good PFT score. He just saw his doctor and everything looks good. I made a deal that if he gets the the NROTC I'll set him up with a friend of mine who is a PT. It's better then buying a car.

You are actually still missing an important piece of info. What colleges?

If your DS has very competitive colleges the answer could quickly change. NROTC is tied to the cadet and the school it is not like AFROTC where the school plays no part in deciding if they receive a scholarship.

For ex let's say this is his list:
1. Notre Dame
2. UNCCH (OOS)
3. UVA (IS)
4. UMich
5. UPenn

I would say it is not a slam dunk.

Now let's say this is his list:
1. Notre Dame
2. UVA (IS)
3. VT (IS)
4. ERAU
5. Penn State

I would say he has plenty of matches on his list and the chances look good.

Another question

Pima said:

You are actually still missing an important piece of info. What colleges?

If your DS has very competitive colleges the answer could quickly change. NROTC is tied to the cadet and the school it is not like AFROTC where the school plays no part in deciding if they receive a scholarship.

For ex let's say this is his list:
1. Notre Dame
2. UNCCH (OOS)
3. UVA (IS)
4. UMich
5. UPenn

I would say it is not a slam dunk.

Now let's say this is his list:
1. Notre Dame
2. UVA (IS)
3. VT (IS)
4. ERAU
5. Penn State

I would say he has plenty of matches on his list and the chances look good.

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Based on other threads in this forum do you think it reasonable for anyone to expect a NROTC scholarship this year? Seems like people are reporting it's VERY difficult for those applying for NROTC scholarships.

Of course there will be scholarships available, HOWEVER, what is more likely will be how they spread the wealth, giving more scholarships to IS over private/OOS.

I think you will see that due to the economy the pool will be larger, thus competition will be stiffer.

Finally, it is going to be IMPO, a lot about matching the college with your stats. That is always the tricky part. You don't want to have all reaches because you may end up with a scholarship, but a TWE from the school. That means in the spring you will be scurrying around to transfer the scholarship to the school that did admit you, and if they are full, than you will not have a scholarship.

I am not saying put down all safeties, I am saying have at least a realistic safety on there that you area willing to attend.

Remember they require 1 IS school, and again due to the economy many kids, not ROTC are also going to apply which may change that school from the traditional safety to a match. Our DS's school had over 30K applicants with 11K selections for 4K to matriculate. 1 in 3 chance of getting in. He is an OOS student, and the regs are only 30% can be OOS. DD's was the same way 31K for 11K, This is a CoC school, so applicants that were asking to go Corps had an edge even if they were OOS.

Some schools "talk" to the ROTC units when it comes to admittance. VT quickly comes to mind, because they do give an edge to cadets going into the Corp program. All ROTC cadets must be in the Corps. Some schools "don't talk". UVA is one of these that do not talk.

A 3.64 IS with only 2 APs and if you are from NoVA it just isn't going to be strong enough to cut it.

Another reason to take the SAT over again is because of the A/NROTC system. It is 2 prong. Although they only take the best sitting and do not superscore, colleges do. So, if blacklab's son has a 1400 now, but takes it and gets higher in just one section, the school will look at that superscore.

It really is about looking at it from both sides, scholarship and school. If you have yet to go onto www.collegconfidential.com I suggest you do. The forum is segregated into each college and you will be able to do a chance me thread for admittance, put in you are planning on being in ROTC. Inevitably somebody will be able to tell you if admissions talks to ROTC and if that will give you an edge. They are brutally honest and tend not to sugar coat your chances. Many times they will provide the links of the previous yrs admittance profile.

I would also suggest you use Naviance, but beware this can be skewed since it is just stat oriented. Schools are like the scholarship process they decide based on the Whole Candidate Score, and that includes volunteer hours, special awards, recs, hooks and essays. So just because it puts you with green dots, you can be missing pieces of the pie.

I don't think the school selection for NROTC hurts or helps your scholarship application at all from a "credentials" point of view. Rather, the way Navy "spreads the wealth" is that it allocates only so many scholarships per school. If the NROTC focus in a particular FY is more in-state schools, then it will increase the numbers at the in-state schools and tighten the numbers at pricier, private schools. This is done without reference to any particular scholarship applicant. When the NROTC slots are filled at a school, there's simply "no more rooms at the inn".

But for the NROTC scholarship board, just because an applicant lists high-end schools does not make him or her a weaker candidate from the NROTC scholarship selection board's point of view. Here's what the school selection list means for the applicant:

For people who file their NROTC applications EARLY (and are awarded a scholarship on the first board), the school selection list is less important and the applicants will have a significantly higher chance of securing a scholarship AND securing a slot in the school of his or her choice. Late filers (or those applicants who were not selected in the early boards), however, will have a tougher time finding a school with open slots, and thus, the successful NROTC applicant will have a more difficult time finding a place to "park" his or her NROTC scholarship award.

What NROTC also does is award scholarships to applicants even if there are no open slots ANY the schools on the applicant's school selection list. In such circumstances, NROTC simply assigns the scholarship to a random school to which the applicant NEVER applied (schools like Univ. of San Diego are frequently used as "placeholders" until the scholarship awardee's transfer request is worked out).

My suggestion for those who do not receive a scholarship on the first board is to contact the schools on your list to see if their slots have been filled from the first selection board. If so, you can evaluate whether you want to stick with that school and go on the NROTC's waiting list for that school or whether you want to change your school choice list. However, I don't think listing more competitive schools adversely affects your scholarship application.

Patentesq, it is important to try to meet the 1st board, but it is also important to understand that the 1st board is usually a baseline board. They traditionally hand out the least amount of scholarships because that pot of money is not going to increase, but decrease and they need it to last. They don't want to say sorry to the March board we cancelled it because we didn't plan it out properly. Especially if that candidate would have won a scholarship.

*Caveat, it is also important because although the school does not weight in awarding a recipient, it does have limited amoun that can be assigned to the school as patentesq stated.

Except for the last board, it is not common for them to make it through the whole stack in one sitting. Those that did make the deadline date, but were at the bottom of the pile will be placed to the top of the pile for the next board. FiFO (First In First Out). http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19043 Three candidates out of three had their packet for 7 months with no response.

If you do get a result from the 1st board it probably will be due to the fact that they can quickly see no matter how many apply you are going to be awarded. OR that no matter how many apply you are just not competitive to win a scholarship. The people in the middle will be those that they need to see how things shake out. That is why you see people get re-boarded multiple times. It is that from a statistical perspective they need to have a bigger pool.

I agree that the schools will not be looked at for the awarding of the scholarship, but they will come back later and award it to the schools, trying to use your list. That is what I am referring to regarding matching the school.

Here are just a few of our posters who were in this boat of scholarship not school, school, but no scholarship.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=18128
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=18301
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=17103
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=17049

Last, but not least
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=18725
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19125
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19273
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=19433

These are just a quick few, and I really suggest to all posters they take the time and read these threads.

This will be the rollercoaster ride of your life time, and the more you investigate the more you will feel comfortable about how it will work over this yr.


Good luck.

BlackLab: Sounds like you have a wonderful son and glad to hear he wants to serve his country. Since his chances of getting a scholarship are based on the current applicant pool, U.S. economy, military rosters, etc it is tough to know how competitive he will be. I am going to avoid commenting on that.

You posted so you could him provide guidance and feedback and here is what I suggest:

1. Make sure the application is complete - all reference letters, forms, etc.

2. Check on the PFT - someone will know for sure but I thought that the test results were part of the application.

3. Go ahead and retake the SAT and ACT tests. They measure different things: one measures IQ and the other measures your ability to succeed in college. Some people do better on one than the other. I also think I have read that many students do better on successive attempts. It costs a few bucks but if you can swing it I recommend taking each test a few times.

4. Review your 5 college choices. There is a TON of commentary on this subject. After reading and reflecting, develop your own strategy on this subject and change your college choices if appropriate.

5. As suggested by others, this forum is a great place to learn from others. It is a sharing community. LOTS of good information - so take the time to educate yourself. It will help manage both you and your son's expectations.

Good luck!

USMCGrunt said:

3. Go ahead and retake the SAT and ACT tests. They measure different things: one measures IQ and the other measures your ability to succeed in college. Some people do better on one than the other. I also think I have read that many students do better on successive attempts. It costs a few bucks but if you can swing it I recommend taking each test a few times.

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Pima and USMCGrunt, you both provide very good points.

On the point quoted above re SAT/ACT, if I recall correctly, NROTC uses the highest score for each test category (i.e., Math, Verbal, etc.) to come up with its overall OML composite score. As such, I believe it only works to the applicant's advantage to take the SAT/ACT more than once if you think you can obtain a higher score. My DS had a good day when he took his ACT last year, so he ultimately decided not to take it more than once. But I recall looking into this question and this is my recollection. Am I wrong?

USMCGrunt said:

Check on the PFT - someone will know for sure but I thought that the test results were part of the application

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I thought so too.

The PFA is part of the scholarship packet for AFROTC, it counts for points with the WCS. PFT is for cadets in ROTC, PFA is for candidates applying.

If the candidate is applying SA and ROTC, you must take the PFA and CFA since the tests are different.

The DoDMERB exam will occur later on because DoD has decided even for some SA's that it is costing too much to give the exam to every one when some will never be considered competitive.

For the OP, I would believe he will be deemed competitive.

This is another issue that candidates should keep an eye on, especially if they know there is a medical issue in their history that may require a waiver. You cannot contract unless you are medically qualified. If you are planning that the only way you can attend X college is with a A/AF/NROTC scholarship, you need to understand the impact that the exam can have.

Do not try to hide the medical issue, they will find it, be now prior to awarding the scholarship or later on prior to commissioning. Waiver process is not a few days. DodMERB makes the decision and send it down the pipeline to the branch. The branch decides to give waivers. So it takes the time to go down and back up. Add in time to schedule additional exams if they send you for a remedial or further testing and you can be looking at 6 weeks before a decision on a good day. Place that into taking the exam in Jan., and that time line shortens up a lot when the school demands an answer, but you need the waiver to give the answer.

Use this time now as a time to get paperwork in order.

If you have a medical issue, even as minor as a food allergy, pull your medical records and get the proof to prove it is not a DQ issue.

Waivers are a privilege, not a guarantee. When money is flowing and they are not meeting their personnel quota, waivers are giving out like candy. When they can meet the quota without giving waivers, than that is what they will try to do.

patentesq said:

On the point quoted above re SAT/ACT, if I recall correctly, NROTC uses the highest score for each test category (i.e., Math, Verbal, etc.) to come up with its overall OML composite score. As such, I believe it only works to the applicant's advantage to take the SAT/ACT more than once if you think you can obtain a higher score. My DS had a good day when he took his ACT last year, so he ultimately decided not to take it more than once. But I recall looking into this question and this is my recollection. Am I wrong?

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I spoke out of turn and assumed that NROTC is comparable to AFROTC and NROTC MO.

Qualifying scores on Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) or American College Test (ACT)

SAT/ACT Math and English / Critical Reading scores can be from two different tests; applicants can combine best Math w/ best English / Critical Reading scores to achieve qualifying scores. (Navy and Nurse Option only)

SAT: 530 Critical Reading; 520 math
ACT: 22 English 21 Math

If applicant is in the top 10% of his/her high school graduating class, the SAT/ACT test scores can be below the above stated minimum. (Navy and Nurse Option only)

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What I am reading here is strange, because they are saying that the 21 for Math would be taken, but the 530 CR for the SAT would be also taken and making a new composite score.

I do not believe the USNA allows. They allow the best superscore of one test.

As always each branch has a funky twist.

I know they are trying to sell the scholarship for Navy, but I think that their website hurts everyone. They are giving hope to candidates with less than 1100 combined or 22 composite, they have a shot, when in reality that is not true. I have not seen any candidate here in 4 yrs get a scholarship with that low of an SAT/ACT. Not saying that they haven't, just saying if you want to feel comfortable getting a scholarship don't use those scores as a bar to pass unless you have something extraordinary in your packet.

Also, NROTC MO is different than NROTC

Achieve a qualifying score on the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT), Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT), or the American College Test (ACT). The SAT math and critical reading scores must be from the same and most recent test. Applicants cannot combine their best math and critical reading scores from the SAT to achieve the qualifying score for application. (Marine Corps Option only).
SAT: 1000 Combination of Math and Critical Reading Only
ACT minimum combined score of 22 on the Math and English portions of the test
Armed Forces Qualification Test (AFQT): 74

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Patentesq: Yes, it would only benefit you to retest if you score higher. But I don't think it could hurt you if you score lower. Worth investigating to know for sure.

Pima: that is great advice. Getting on top of any medical paperwork is time well spent.

I guess I should add one other bit of guidance a parent should prepare to offer his child. Since this comes up occasionally on this forum, it is important to note that staying clear of any misdemeanors or other infractions of the law is critical at this time. We have all read of scholarship award winners who lose the scholarship before it even begins due to legal difficulties.