AFROTC EA Chances 2012?

Hey, I am kind of concerned about my chances of getting an EA. I go to the University of Missouri - Columbia (Mizzou) Here is my stuff:

Major: Political Science
CGPA: 3.66
PFA: 98.4
ACT: 27
Commander's Ranking: Bottom 1/3

The thing I don't get is my commander's ranking. My detachment is really competitive but I just don't get how I was ranked that low. I don't know where in the bottom third I am. I am in Pershing Rifles drill team, AAS, Color Guard, CAP, and I'm in Mizzou Honors College. I also got the Silver Valor Award last fall.

Any feedback would be appreciated!!

I'm not at all familiar with AFROTC, but is it possible your commander is trying the "game" the system a bit? He may feel you're likely to get an EA on the strength of your stats alone, and is trying to give some of the other, weaker cadets a boost with a higher evaluation.

Not trying to accuse this particular commander of anything below the board, but wondering if this happens, in general? I would imagine a higher % of EAs in the detachment would reflect positively on the commander.

I've thought about it, but I don't think my commander would do that. When I talked to him he told me that I didn't seem like a natural A-type personality and I wasn't one that my peers would regularly turn to as a leader. That is pretty fair, but there are very few of those types in my class at all. I doubt I can do anything to change my ranking at this point though, I'm concerned about my chances right now.

What is your det "job", i.e. leadership? It maybe he racked and stacked using this as a determination. I agree I am shocked by this since as a C100 you won a national award which is not something everyone in your unit will win.

You have strong stats, and as I always say look within your det to see where the cut off was last yr regarding cgpa, PFT and det ranking. It maybe possible that it will avg out and you will be perfectly safe.

That is the thing, I haven't had any actual assigned leadership positions. (Unless it was Flight Commander for a week or whatever) The only positions open to AS200 at my detachment are jobs within AAS and just one job in the wing structure, the GMC liason. I think I will talk to my APAS this week and try to get some more feedback.

I know little of AFROTC as well and I surely don't know what the silver valor award is. You're clearly a very active participant in the unit. However, unless I'm missing something, or you overlooked mentioning it, I didn't see anything that refers to leadership roles. I don't know what leadership rules are available to freshman and sophmores in AFROTC, but could the low ranking be based on leadership or lack thereof? I ask with all due respect because otherwise your stats look good to me.

That is a perfectly legitimate question and it seemed to be what the commander was focused on in his discussion with me. He just seemed pretty vague in describing my failures in that area. Again, he mentioned the A-type personality and my natural leadership. The thing is, I had a meeting with him last semester, I've had several meetings with my APAS, and I never had any negative feedback. I was never given any reason to believe I would be ranked so low amongst my peers. Last semester my det commander even said I had "done some things to impress him with my leadership." I didn't expect top third, but I definitely didn't expect bottom.

clear77 said:

That is a perfectly legitimate question and it seemed to be what the commander was focused on in his discussion with me. He just seemed pretty vague in describing my failures in that area. Again, he mentioned the A-type personality and my natural leadership. The thing is, I had a meeting with him last semester, I've had several meetings with my APAS, and I never had any negative feedback. I was never given any reason to believe I would be ranked so low amongst my peers. Last semester my det commander even said I had "done some things to impress him with my leadership." I didn't expect top third, but I definitely didn't expect bottom.

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Well, I would think it would be legitimate to request another meeting with him or your cadre advisor to get detailed specifics. I would handle it respectufully and from the vantage point of trying to determine how you can improve. Regardless as ro whether you get a slot or not this would seem to me to be helpful, either as an SFT participant, a 500, or a civilian. In my opinion they owe you detailed feedback.

Let me guess your CC has a flying background?

I say that because most fliers are A type personality. It is not so much you being able to see others going to peers, but what the command sees, including your Instructors and NCOIC. They are looking from a different perspective than how you view your peers.

Yes, you are the guy that is involved, but like we say to scholarship candidates it is not about being in 50 great things, but more about doing great in 5 things. That is where we talk about leadership, because traditionally it is the person who is in 5 things that will shine through with leadership over the 50 things person.

Currently it appears that you are in everything offered for college and AFROTC, but from a leadership perspective you have just membership.

Remember every organization that is tied to AFROTC also has an advisor from the det. This also allows the AD leadership to see you in another setting. Since you are in every organization, what they may have seen regarding Type A is others who are in just HG or Drill shine/lead more in that setting.

These organizations, such as AAS also build camaraderie among the cadets, and many times there is even a little rivalry, puffing, or bragging which is the best out of all of them. The forges help to foster that competition.

You maybe the "GO TO" guy among C100's who want to know the ins and outs of each organization to decide which to join because you are in all of them, BUT not the "GO TO" guy when it comes to just 1 organization, even though you are in it. AGAIN, why 50 is not better than 5. The cadet who is in 1 and gives 110% will have the support of the FCC when names come up compared to you who gives 100%. AGAIN, goes to the camaraderie aspect. Why rank you higher than someone else if outside of AFROTC that someone else gives more than you for an AF organization. What will happen is this will repeat itself with every organization down the line, and now all of the sudden your initiative to be involved has become a hindrance.

The cadets that have the leadership position in the organization will say to the advisor...great guy, always here gives 100%. The advisor will follow up with the same question for everyone in that group, and eventually the cadet will say great cadet gives 150%. Most likely the leaders in HG, CAP, AAS, Drill, etc. will all be at least C300's. That means they all went to SFT and are all POCs. If they can only give their top 3 or 4, and assuming that it is rare to have every cadet in all of these groups. The AD Instructors have just been given 12-16 names. That just dropped you to the bottom 1/2 of the pile if you have 30 cadets fighting for a spot.

Now add in the fact that some of the cadets are in Wing positions in the unit, no affiliation to any organization. They rack and stack their flight, based on just abilities, nothing more. If you don't rack up in a flight of 30 as top 50% and there are 5 flights. You get the double whammy because the outside organizations didn't rack you, and now the AFROTC POC's didn't either.

Type A personalities vary. Bullet IMPHO and our DS are both Type A's. Driven, committed and basically similar to a dog with a bone. Sweet without the bone, but once they have it best to let them do their thing because their main goal is that bone. There are also some type A's that are like "prison wardens".

That being said notice they both have something in common. When it comes to it regarding their goals, they will obtain their desires. He may feel with you being in everything and anything that at this point you are going with the flow and what will be will be. He may believe you are still trying to determine where your path lies and in that case it is why you are not in his eyes Type A.

If you do get selected for SFT you need to assert yourself and prove him wrong there. SFT accounts for 15% of your OML, something he can't take away.

If you do not get selected and rolled over to 500, you need to step up next yr from a make yourself heard perspective. If that means dropping out of a couple of these organizations do so and place that time to the ones you are in already. If they have weekly GMC nights at your school, GO and mentor the new 100's.

Type A personalities will work the system to highlight their positives in any manner possible. If it means shoveling crap to create a great garden, they will shovel it.

Good luck.

I'm a 200 cadet over at St. Louis U

I can't really say anything about your CC ranking or anything about the "why's." But as a fellow FTP cadet, eagerly awaiting EA's to come out, I can say don't fret it. I see plenty of people at my detachment freaking out, over what? True, we ALL want EA's (I would hope so) and unfortunately not all of us are going to receive them. But you just got to remember its out of your control. Whatever happens happens.

Personally, since packages have been submitted I have been researching civilian careers within my degree field. Its not that I don't think I'm going to get an EA, or don't want one, its just making sure that I'm not one of those cadets who doesn't get an EA and is now unsure of what to do with his life. Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

So thats just how I've been dealing with the whole stress of FT selection. Know that life isn't over. And as Pima said, there's still the chance of being a 500, and if you're really lucky, OTS, but I've heard thats really hard to get into so I won't get into that.

Good luck and hope to see you at Maxwell.

LEWAF,

Great post!

That is truth. Packages are submitted, and you may want to know chances, but the fact is there are too many factors to give you a chance. Your CC is not yanking your chain by being evasive. Things change yr to yr., even if the rumor mill says they will have 2200-2300 slots nobody except AFROTC HQ knows if the rumor is true.

Not one person here knows the impact of the college rigor regarding the board.

Not one person here knows their manpower needs for 14.

If you can look in the mirror and say "I gave it my all, I couldn't give more" than that is the only thing that matters.

We all get that reassurance factor, but remember nobody here is a CC or on the board. Take our opinion, be it yes or no, and throw it in the circular filing cabinet when you are done because we are guesstimating.

If you look at chances boards for scholarships and apptmts. you will see people swearing they are in, and swearing others should find another Plan B. However, every yr there is that one who got it or didn't get it where every poster pulled their jaws off the floor.

You need to forget about this and put your nose to the grindstone to show the command that you are moving on as if you are going.

Not saying you aren't, just saying that the CC will be looking at you regarding how you deal with this pressure.

Remember if your CC is an O6, he lived through this for O4, O5 and O6. The submit DP/P/DNP goes in about 6 months before the results are released. That entire time they worked as an AF officer knowing their career could be gone.

clear77 said:

Any feedback would be appreciated!!

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The feedback you truly need to get is from your AS instructor. He is the subjective force being your commander's ranking. You need to get in his office (whether for your term counseling or just by making an appointment) and ask for honest feedback. Where does he see your strengths? Where does he see your weaknesses? How should you go about improving them? Etc, etc. If he just responds by giving you vague, useless feedback - TELL HIM THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. Make it clear that you want to improve, and you're coming to him for help.

Your grades, PT, test scores are all good to go. The only thing to hold you back is that ranking. And no one on this board can really give you accurate advice on how to improve that, since we're not the ones ranking you. For that you have to approach your instructor and straight up ask.


Good luck

I agree with everything nick4060 has stated, and you should take his words of wisdom to heart since he is a C400.

However, I would tweak his response a little.

Reality is your packet has been submitted and is at Maxwell as we speak. I would be pro-active and ask:

If I do not get selected will you support me for C500?

Not every C200 will convert to 500. You need to plan on Plan B.

Currently, life is unkown for you and of course your dream is being at Maxwell this summer sweating it out in 99 degrees with 99% humidity.

However, what you all really want to know is the what if answer. So make an appointment and ask the "what if" question. That is basically 1 sentence.

What if I don't get selected, is it over for me?

As nick, myself and others have stated only your CC can answer that question. You will sleep better if you know that answer, regardless of the board results. The unknown is answered for the worst case scenario and you can make plans either way.