My daughter's chances for an Army ROTC Scholarship

She is finishing up her junior year and is almost finished with the application process for the scholarship for Fall of 2013. I need some reassurance that she has some chance of evening getting the scholarship. Her grades are just not what they need to be (she has struggled in math). For those classes she struggled in, she has retaken them so maybe that will look a little better.

GPA: 2.9 out of 4.0 (3.3 on SCUGS)
SAT: 1000 (530 CR, 470 Math). Will be taking the ACT in June
PT: 31 pushups (she is so good at those) in a min, 54 pushups in a min, 1 mile run-9:27
Honors and AP classes: Honors Alg 1 (A), Honors Geometry (B), Honors Algebra 2(made a D in and retook for a B over the summer), Precal Honors (she will have a D as well-she is just not a math girl), Honors Eng 1 and 2 (both Bs), Ap Eng lang (high C-84), Ap Eng Lit(next yr), Honors Bio and Chem (both high Cs), AP Bio (next yr), Ap US History (high B), Mandarin Chinese (next yr), all other classes college prep. She will be retaking computers this summer as well as forensic science.

Interview: she has not done this yet but should nail it due to her pageant experience and the fact that she REALLY know what she wants

Leadership and Extracurricular: Just a note there was no time in her schedule for ROTC.

South Carolina Junior Scholar;studied Biology/Forensic Science at Clemson University for a summer program; studied Forensic science at Governors School for Science and Math for a summer program;spanish Spotlight Award; Who’s Who All American Scholar;recipient of All American Scholarship Grant from United States Achievement Academy;Who’s Who in Leadership and Service;Science Olympiad 11th

Gifted and Talented Art 3 years with an A average; artwork was featured in the Lexington 4 School District Calendar; artwork was auctioned off in the Picasso Project that was sponsored by the “Voices of South Carolina’s Children”; was recommended to bypass Art 1 and be allowed to enter Art 2 in 9th grade (Art 1 is a normal prerequisite for Art 2). Was the only 9th grader in Art 2 and the only student to ever be allowed to do this; completed Art 3 in tenth grade (no further Art classes available)

Trumpet 7 years; Region Band Auditions; concert Festival;received excellent and superior ratings;Solo and Ensemble Multiple Excellent Ratings;Jazz band; Attended University of South Carolina band camp with a final performance at the Koger Center for Performing Arts in Columbia, South Carolina; marching Band 2011-2012-3rd at Lower State Championships, 6th at 3A State;

Swansea High School Junior Varsity Cheer Squad 9th grade;handpicked to be a member of the Swansea High School Varsity Competitive Cheer (one of only 4 9th graders);Varsity squad tenth grade; took 11th grade off to do try marching band;Varsity Cheer Senior Year; Varsity Letter 10th grade

Made All Star Cheerleading Squad (not school related)and competed for 3 seasons.Received:3 Allstar trophies,3 Bronze medals,4 Gold medals,1 silver medal,1 3rd place ribbon,Most noted Allstar Cheer accomplishment: Winning the 2009 Small Gym National Championship in Charlotte, North Carolina in the Junior Division. This win awarded them a bid to the All Levels World Championship in Atlanta where they placed 4th; received the “Most Likely to Practice at Home” award;
Gymnastics 8 years; Received:4 trophies,9 2nd place ribbons,7 3rd place ribbons,1 1st place ribbons,2 1st place medals,Gymnast of the month

Miss Swansea Tiger 13-15 age division and Miss Photogenic;SC Teen Miss Caring Angel and Miss Photogenic;2nd runner-up Freshman division of Miss Swansean;Miss Elite SC;Miss October Starshine;State Finalist for National American Miss;Teen Miss Simplicity;1st runner up Teen Miss Glitz;2nd runner up and best smile National Teen Miss Caring Angel;community Service Award for Miss Caring Angel;1st runner up Miss Easter Bunny;Miss SC Supreme Queen/Overall Sports Attire/Overall Talent;2nd runnerup Little Miss SC prelim; People’s Choice Winner Miss Swansean 11th grade;Simply Gorgeous Girls prelim winner; Fabulous Fresh Faces prelim winner

Volunteer with Cullen Archangel Animal Rescue;Speaker at 1st Annual Bearcat Bonanza (for United Cerebral Palsy;Handed out lollipops in support of United Cerebral Palsy;Donated games to local elementary school after school program;Bell Ringer for Salvation Army;Volunteer reader at local library;Volunteer Junior cheer coach for Swansea little league football;Member of SOFAB-Special Olympics Friends and Buddies Club (Elected Officer of Public Relations for 2013 school year);Community Service Award for Miss Caring Angel;church youth group;church ministry camp retreat participant;Member of Fellowship of Christian Athletes; Prom Committee

Colleges she is looking at: North Georgia, Lander, Liberty, Campbell, Winthrop, USC Upstate, Francis Marion, Marshall. She will be doing ROTC at any of these schools.

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If she doesn't apply she will have no chance...If she applys, there is a chance she will get an offer. If she doesn't get an offer, she should still plan to attend college and enroll in Army ROTC if she really thinks she wants to be an Army Officer. Beyond that whatever you read on this board will be pure speculation, as the process has so many variables there is no way of knowing what her chances are.

are you "needing reassurance" b/c if she doesn't have a good chance, you will advise her to not go to the trouble of completing the App, the interview and the PT test?

If that is the case, she has a fantastic chance! Encourage her to apply.

If you really want to know, her stats make it an uphill climb, but it is still possible.

ROTC is looking for SALs (Scholar, Athlete, Leader).

One of the qualifications for scholar is 3.0 unweighted GPA and 1100+ on the SATs. A small increase in both of those areas would give her a much better shot at the scholarship.

Thanks guys. No I just want some reassurance this will be worth it. The process is pretty intense. Shes already done most of the application process(just waiting on school to fax presidential fitness scores, transcript and verification of height and weight). My biggest concern is her gpa even though the website says minimum of 2.5. Her classes beat her tail this year.

I would also get her enrolled in some SAT prep classes, those scores are really low, and the prep classes really help some people. She also might want to look at the classes she has signed up for next year. AP classes look great if you ace them, but if they are killing your GPA it might be better to go after some easier classes that will allow her GPA to climb up. In the end I think getting her GPA up will look much better than a low GPA with a bunch of AP classes.

Thats a catch twenty-two though because colleges dont like to see you go from ap and honors to regular. The good news is her gpa is mainly low because of math. Shes just not good at it and has really struggled (hence the low score on the math portion of the SAT. I dont think her SAT scores are very low. Most colleges I have talked to said that they are decent. She will probably do better on the ACT so we are trying that in June.

hathcoam said:

Thats a catch twenty-two though because colleges dont like to see you go from ap and honors to regular. The good news is her gpa is mainly low because of math. Shes just not good at it and has really struggled (hence the low score on the math portion of the SAT. I dont think her SAT scores are very low. Most colleges I have talked to said that they are decent. She will probably do better on the ACT so we are trying that in June.

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hathcoam, I hate to rain on your parade but those SAT scores leave a lot to be desired. I wouldn't go by what the schools tell you, but would look at the profiles of incoming freshman the the colleges under consideration. That being said, some folks do better on ACT than SAT so maybe that's the issue. I'm certainly rooting for your DD though, so please don't misunderstand. I think the profiles will give you a better idea where you stand... and SAT scores aren't the be all end all.

The average SAT scores are 508 CR and 520 Math, that is average. Her SAT scores are 28 points below that. If she doesn't bring those up she will be in big trouble, all of the services are looking for exceptional, not average. The SAT prep courses really help some students.

As far as classes I'm not sure, but what I have seen with my kids was there is usually a base line they want as a minimum, if she doesn't make that minimum she won't get in, if she can hit that minimum then they may start looking at which classes, but I'm not really sure about that. If she can get A's in the AP classes that is great, if she can't I would imagine she won't get a scholarship.

I would apply for the scholarship for many reason.

1. What If regrets
~~~ If she doesn't will she be left wondering if she would have received a scholarship?

2. Experience of insight to the ROTC scholarship process
~~~ Many units have scholarships for cadets at that particular college. Applying will give insight into some of the things they will be looking at, including the PFA portion.

3. Time management
~~~ She will have to learn how to juggle everything, and their sr. yr., applying to colleges, writing essays, doing sports, ecs, etc., with ROTC scholarship requirements on top of that will give a few seconds of what college life will be like.

On a different note, and not to be Janie Raincloud, but after going through the college process 3x now, and watching how the economy has made a dramatic impact on college applications, I would research some of these colleges deeper. Make sure you have a good mix of safety, matches and reaches in the pile.

The AROTC system is unique that if a scholarship is awarded it is tied to the cadet with the school. She could get a scholarship to Marshall, and at the same time a rejection for admittance, or vise a verse.

I do not know if your school has a program called Naviance, but if it does use it. It is very easy, they input their stats (cgpa, SAT) and it will show green yellow and red dots for students from that school in previous years with their stats. These dots represent in, waitlisted and rejection.

If you do not have that I would go to www.collegeconfidential.com This site has forums for many colleges, and the posters there are like us here, applying, at there, parents, etc. Kids do chance me all of the time.

I think she has a great resume, but JMPHO looking at her ECs I think she has too many of them when you see her low cgpa and SAT. Time management is something colleges look at for admission. They don't want the book smart 4.0 cgpa, 2400 SAT kid with no ECs, but at the same time they don't want the tons of ECs and low academic student either. The main reason why is college makes hs look like 1st grade, and if the academic foundation is not there prior to arriving she will struggle. Look at their glossy brochures and websites, they boast how many graduate within 4 yrs., part of that is due to the academic foundation in HS matches what they will face as freshman in college.

I agree with others, change her SR schedule, I think it will ding her cgpa, especially chinese, which is known to be one of the hardest foreign languages.

Finally a few things to investigate.

Contact the GC at the HS. You have stated she has done summer classes for re-takes, I am assuming it is to bump up the cgpa.
~~~ Does the official transcript annotate this at all? In other words, does it show just the re-take, or does it show the original, and the re-take?

I understand the pageant experience will calm her nerves, but the type of questions the interviewer will ask is nothing like pageant, they can range from what book did you last read that was not assigned to you TO should we have invaded Iraq TO career goals in the Army if you don't get your dream career field. DS had them all (except insert AF, not Army). The interviewer is looking for certain insight into the candidate and that is why the questions vary so much.

My best wishes, and as I always say, nobody here will have the exact same path into the military, some will have a direct route, some will have detours, but it is up to them when they decide where their path ends.

Hathcoam, You have received some good advice here. If your DD doesn't apply she definitely won't receive a scholarship; that is the only guarantee.

My suggestions are for her to study, take a prep course, do whatever it takes to get those SAT/ACT scores up. From the ARMY ROTC site: ( I would guess that today these numbers may be low.)

The most competitive candidates for an Army ROTC Four-Year Scholarship will have at least a SAT score of 1100 or an ACT score of 24.

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As a senior it is hard to change your gpa very much but if she can improve to at least a 3.0 that will help. I would agree that it may be good to take some non-AP classes to boost that gpa.

The EC's are good and necessary but they count for considerably less than the academic portion of her resume. Prioritize with that in mind.

Good Luck!

Great advice here. I have been thru the college selection process also 3 times. One AFROTC, one service academy and one private.....it can be daunting. My advice would be nothing ventured, nothing gained. And while the process may seem time consuming and additional stress for your high school senior if she gets the scholarship....Wonderful!!!!! If she doesnt... she will have gained valuable life skills and insight by the process. Both my military kids said they gained so much from the process itself. Best wishes for you and your daughter. And remember it is her process...guide her, help her keep on track but allow her the freedom to shine and to also make a few mistakes along the way....the confidence gained by taking ownership of the college process is oh so valuable.

I do not know the AROTC WCS system, but if it is like the SA system, heed Packer's advice.

WCS = Whole Candidate Score
60% of the score is PAR (Prior Academic Record)
20% of the score is EC (extra curricular)
20% of the score is Interviews, recs, PFA, etc.

I am sure on ECs she will max. Assuming her interviews, recs and PFA's are strong, she will max there too.

However, the PAR is the issue. She can get 100% on the 40%, but only mins on the 60%.

Before you freak out. PAR not only includes her transcripts and SAT/ACT, but also the school profile, class rank, etc. School profile includes % of students that go Ivy, 4 yr Private, 4 yr OOS, 2 yr., and nothing. If she has a low cgpa, class rank top 15%, but 25% go Ivy they will place that in the equation, just as if her rank is 45% and 25% go 4 yr., 50% go 2 yr., and 25% go to work. It tells the boards (ROTC and college) if the school is competitive academically, and whether they hand out A's like candy on Halloween.

Some HS, such as yours has a 7 pt scale (Noticed that with the C = 84), will be re-weighted to a 10 pt. scale so the cgpa may actually go up. However, in the wcgpa it can also go down the other way if the school uses a 6.0 wgpa for an AP.

Colleges will do this too regarding admissions.

I would apply without a doubt because in the end of the day it is worth the energy. Without a doubt I would have here spend Sept/Oct every weekend taking the SAT/ACTs. Unless you can say she is being recruited by any college as a cheerleader, gymnast, trumpet player or pageant queen, thus she needs to do it, she may be hurting her future academically from a collegiate perspective. JMPO, now throw it in the circular filing cabinet (trash can).

At this point IMPO it is about long term goals. If she wants to play trumpet for the NY symphony support her, if she wants to become an Olympian as a gymnast, go for it. Yet, if she says that come college none of her EC's will be used at college, than be honest and cut them back so she can get into her dream college by taking the SAT/ACT over and over again, by being able to study her 7th semester to take every grade to an A so as a freshman her academic foundation is solid.

Pima said:

AROTC WCS = Whole Candidate Score

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AROTC WCS =
Civilian Background Experience Form - 17.8%
PMS Interview - 14.2%
ROTC Physical Fitness Test - 11%
SAT / ACT - 17.8%
Scholar / Athlete / Leader - 14.2%
Board Members - 25%

All good advice. I would suggest you go out and buy an ACT prep book, and an SAT prep book with sample exams. You may not think her scores are low, but unfortunately, they are. The most important thing to do to study for the SAT is TAKE PRACTICE EXAMS. Getting used to the way questions are worded, noticing question similarities, and getting used to the timing of the sections and breaks is critical. Use a stop watch. Run through it like an actual test day. Try doing one per weekend. Same for ACT. The ACT is a bit different test. They include a science section, which could be a negative or a positive, depending on her science background. I think the ACT is known for being more difficult from the math perspective. You will find out more after she takes practice tests in both. I believe the Army will take your best scores (super score) for each section, so she can take the test multiple times to boost the score. As they say, practice makes perfect! Time to work on the academics. Boost the gpa and the test scores.

Definitely encourage her to apply for the scholarship. You never know! And the whole process is a lesson, in itself. Best of luck!

Interview score sheet:
http://www.armyrotc.msstate.edu/benefits/forms/cc159-R.pdf

Hello I'm currently a senior and I'm thinking about applying for an army ROTC scholarship in the schools that I've accepted into. In fact I've already started the application process but I'm afraid my stats aren't food enough to get it. I got a 24 on my act and as of the end of junior year I also had a 2.9 gpa (math isn't my strongest suit either). I was the varsity captain of my dance team, did school and church choir for 3 years, jv track and field for 2 years, Afjrotc and Njrotc, morning news director, yearbook editor, senior class government representative, model un, girl up, hospital volunteer, took Ap Euro, AP Lang, IB Spanish, IB chemistry, AP gov, Advanced Algebra. I'm currently taking Ap Psych., AP Lit, and College Spanish. Can anyone tell if they think I'll get it or not.

Your gpa and ACT are problematic for a national ROTC scholarship. Check with PMS of schools you are interested in for other options.

Rotcgirl! said:

Hello I'm currently a senior and I'm thinking about applying for an army ROTC scholarship in the schools that I've accepted into. In fact I've already started the application process but I'm afraid my stats aren't food enough to get it. I got a 24 on my act and as of the end of junior year I also had a 2.9 gpa (math isn't my strongest suit either). I was the varsity captain of my dance team, did school and church choir for 3 years, jv track and field for 2 years, Afjrotc and Njrotc, morning news director, yearbook editor, senior class government representative, model un, girl up, hospital volunteer, took Ap Euro, AP Lang, IB Spanish, IB chemistry, AP gov, Advanced Algebra. I'm currently taking Ap Psych., AP Lit, and College Spanish. Can anyone tell if they think I'll get it or not.

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All you'll get from us are opinions. No one here can tell you definitively.
Based on previous candidates, your GPA and ACT are low. But you know that, and other candidates have overcome low scores.
You'll never know if you don't apply. If you don't get a national scholarship you can still compete for a campus based scholarship those are assigned by the battalion. By all means apply, if that doesn't work out go to school, enroll in AROTC and work hard. If your motivation is to commission as an officer, there are many ways to achieve that goal. Most cadets MSI year report without scholarships. Lastly, pick a school that you can afford to attend with or without the scholarship. You will have more commitments with ROTC than the typical college student, it may be hard to work and do your best while going to school full time.