class rank and GPA

I am just curious how these things are objectively looked at. Is being 3 out of a class of 50 really better than being 30 out of a class of 400? In the smaller school, there is a lot less competition. Not that you shouldn't be proud of being 3rd but in a bigger school, it may not have been top 100, you just dont know. Also, how do you compare GPA when some schools use 93 for an A and some use 90?

Thanks

dc67 said:

I am just curious how these things are objectively looked at. Is being 3 out of a class of 50 really better than being 30 out of a class of 400? In the smaller school, there is a lot less competition. Not that you shouldn't be proud of being 3rd but in a bigger school, it may not have been top 100, you just dont know. Also, how do you compare GPA when some schools use 93 for an A and some use 90?

Thanks

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I don't really know the answer to the first part of your question, but as for the GPA... go to Collegeboard.com and there is a GPA calculator that can help you.

dc67 said:

I am just curious how these things are objectively looked at. Is being 3 out of a class of 50 really better than being 30 out of a class of 400? In the smaller school, there is a lot less competition. Not that you shouldn't be proud of being 3rd but in a bigger school, it may not have been top 100, you just dont know.

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First, don't assume small schools are less competitive than large schools. Trust me on this one. USNA has a pretty good idea how competitive most schools are. Not always, but most of the time.

Second, the courses you take count. Being 5/500 but having taken no calc, no chem, no physics, no advanced language, no AP/IB/honors courses . . . not going to be all that impressive.

Also, just b/c you go to a super-competitive h.s. (e.g., magnet school) even one that has competition to get in, don't assume that being "average" means that USNA will decide you would have been at the top in a less competitive school.

Also, how do you compare GPA when some schools use 93 for an A and some use 90?[/

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You can't. This is one reason class rank counts more than GPA.

Finally, remember that teachers are writing recs. These count. A lot. And you have standardized tests that -- somewhat -- level the playing field.

This, BTW, is why it's almost impossible for anyone to make predictions solely based on numbers and why other things come into play.

I didn't mean to imply that small schools couldn't be competitive. My sisters kids go to a small Christian school that academically is very hard. I just don't see how you compare one to the other. I guess sport wise, I see my nephews starting varsity sports as Freshman, because thats all they have enough players for. So they have 4 years of varsity sports where as, bigger school they might not even have that opportunity until 10th or 11th grade. Just curious. Standard tests are the same for everyone, so they should be a good judge.

I know there is a total package that goes into it, average entrance scores from other years at least give you an idea what it may take.

Thanks for the responses.

There is a difference in viewing academics and athletics. You're right that, if it takes about 25 men just to field a football team and there are only 20 men in a class at a given h.s., your odds are pretty good (1/4). Thus, being a varsity athlete at a small school may not be a huge deal -- unless you can back that up with something like district/regional honors. Or your team defeats at big school for a championship. Or you're in a sport where you can show times (e.g., track, swimming).

Having attended USNA, I didn't see any difference in overall quality among those who attended large vs. small high schools, or private vs. public, or magnet vs. non-magnet, etc.

And now you throw home-schoolers into the mix . . .

I can only say that you generally have to trust the process. I'm not naive enough to think it's 100% fair but, unfortunately, no one has yet been able to design a system that is.

dc67 said:

I guess sport wise, I see my nephews starting varsity sports as Freshman, because thats all they have enough players for. So they have 4 years of varsity sports where as, bigger school they might not even have that opportunity until 10th or 11th grade.

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This is one I wonder about. All of the academys seem to put a lot of emphasis on varsity letters. I have seen the situation that you describe where kids that go to the small school letter in a sport or sports for 4 years and the kid of similar abilities at the larger school fails to ever make the varsity squad.

Those students who attend a small high school may indeed be able to letter varsity in their chosen sport all 4 years. However, they will have very few sport choices in comparison to a large high school, and if they are lucky their school will offer an AP course. They will not be able to put on their resume that they have taken 10 AP courses, IB courses, etc., over their high school career. The resources to provide those classes to a small student population just aren't there. Even so, there are amazing, hardworking, student/athlete/leaders at both large and small schools. I think USNA1985 is right, the process is designed to take all of these factors into account. It may not be 100% fair from any of a number of ways to look at it, but it does give the applicant an opportunity to present themselves and their high points.

Also, just b/c you go to a super-competitive h.s. (e.g., magnet school) even one that has competition to get in, don't assume that being "average" means that USNA will decide you would have been at the top in a less competitive school.

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Is this true? How much weight is placed on school competiveness? I attend a school that is consistently ranked in the top ten nationally by many different rankings. I am barely in the 25th percentile in my class, and I have taken 12 college level classes going into my senior year, where I will take 7 more. My best friend from middle school went to my local non-magnet high school and is 2nd in his class of about 1200. He has taken fewer college level classes then me and has essentially, in his own words, coasted through the first three years of high school. His stats are still more favorable?

As 1985 noted, Admissions takes several factors into consideration, and one of them will be a school's track record on graduates going on to college, percentage graduating, so on. Be careful not to become so obsessed about how Admissions selects candidates for appointments that you lose your focus on becoming the best candidate YOU can become! I have worked with successful candidates from schools with 50 in the graduating class that is just a few miles from a school with 1,000 in the graduating class that doesn't produce a successful candidate. What Admissions is going to focus upon is just how well YOU have performed academically, athletically, in ECA's, and as a leader in the school and your community. It is fascinating to try to ferret out the inner workings and hidden mechanisms in the selection process, but I think most BGO's will tell you that after a while we just focus on giving the candidates the best guidance we can to become successful. Focus on things you can effect during the next few months - that time will pass very quickly and seven or eight months from now you will be stalking your local postman looking for the big envelope. Best wishes to all of you - sincerely.

Is GPA the sole criteria?

I doubt that GPA, in and of itself, is the sole criteria. Of course the academies want candidates that have proven academic excellence, but I also believe they take a holistic approach...what was studied, was it below the demonstrated ability of the student (i.e. the student took classes less challenging than their ability indicated for the purpose of maximizing GPA). In my limited experience, the candidate is viewed In Total, and therefore even the limited snap-shot . by academics, sports, community activities, interests, and achievements paints a picture of the individual being considered. Grades are important, no question about it, but, except perhaps in the extremes of geniuses and naturals, what sort of picture is represented by the whole. Has the individual faced any adversity, really challenged themselves, risen above, failed and rebounded...demonstrated character.

I alway offer this advice (its free so its worth exactly what you paid for it):

Take the most difficult courses your school offers and excel; then prove you understand it on tests.

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