Marine Bias against Naval Academy?

This week I went to have my NROTC MO interview and PFT. Obviously, some of the officers there advised me strongly to consider NROTC MO over the Naval Acadeny because you WILL get a commision into the USMC through their program and possibly not at the Naval Academy. However, many of them ALSO believe that the Naval Academy produces inferior (Obiously not EVERYONE, but overall) Marine Officers and that- direct quote from a NROTC MO Midshipman at VMI I am talking to- "avoid the "Naval Academy like the plague". Is there anyone else who has a similar view on this topic? Or is it just the usual bias that one would show towards their program?

stlcards2012 said:

This week I went to have my NROTC MO interview and PFT. Obviously, some of the officers there advised me strongly to consider NROTC MO over the Naval Acadeny because you WILL get a commision into the USMC through their program and possibly not at the Naval Academy. However, many of them ALSO believe that the Naval Academy produces inferior (Obiously not EVERYONE, but overall) Marine Officers and that- direct quote from a NROTC MO Midshipman at VMI I am talking to- "avoid the "Naval Academy like the plague". Is there anyone else who has a similar view on this topic? Or is it just the usual bias that one would show towards their program?

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Considering the source "NROTC MO Midshipman," I think it's an biased opinion.

Any of the officers who advised you a Naval Academy grad?

No disrepsect to the MO Midshipman (does anyone know if it is proper to call NROTC participants midshipman?), unless he is a prior service, his is not a Marine and lacks any expereince to provide an opinion like that.

Why would Naval Academy produce inferior Marine Officers? Something in the water they drink?

MemberLG said:

(does anyone know if it is proper to call NROTC participants midshipman?),

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Yes, midshipman is the accepted term, with two exceptions:

1) active duty Marines who transfer in to participate in NROTC (the MECEP program), in which case they are formally called Marines, and

2) actuve duty Sailors who transfer in to participate in NROTC (the STA-21 program), in which case they are formally called "Officer Candidates" while in NROTC.

stlcards2012 said:

This week I went to have my NROTC MO interview and PFT. Obviously, some of the officers there advised me strongly to consider NROTC MO over the Naval Acadeny because you WILL get a commision into the USMC through their program and possibly not at the Naval Academy. However, many of them ALSO believe that the Naval Academy produces inferior (Obiously not EVERYONE, but overall) Marine Officers and that- direct quote from a NROTC MO Midshipman at VMI I am talking to- "avoid the "Naval Academy like the plague". Is there anyone else who has a similar view on this topic? Or is it just the usual bias that one would show towards their program?

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There is one grain of truth here. When you enroll in NROTC MO, that's it, you're going Marines assuming you complete the program successfully and commission. If you enroll in the Naval Academy it's not guaranteed you'll go Marines. These days about 20-25% are selected for Marines. I think I read somewhere on this forum (no direct knowledge myself) that many who want Marines don't get it.

That being said, if you go to the Naval Academy and rank high on the OML you'll get Marines if that's what you want.

I don't believe the crap about one set of officers, in general, being better than another. I will say, and it's only my belief, that because they are already committed to Marines, the NROTC MIDN get to focus on that more than Navy stuff, but I don't really think there is any advantage there... and if there is, there are offsetting advantages to the Academy that trump that.

Edit: Not that I would use this to make a decision, but the course requirements for NROTC MO do not include the Calculus and Calculus based physics. You will be taking those courses at the Academy. Frankly, I think its a good thing to take Calculus, not that most people will ever use it... but if you're pursuing engineering or economics you will or at least might. Criminal Justice or History? Not so much.

Edit: <OK Scout, time to pile on! >

MemberLG said:

Considering the source "NROTC MO Midshipman," I think it's an biased opinion.

Any of the officers who advised you a Naval Academy grad?

No disrepsect to the MO Midshipman (does anyone know if it is proper to call NROTC participants midshipman?), unless he is a prior service, his is not a Marine and lacks any expereince to provide an opinion like that.

Why would Naval Academy produce inferior Marine Officers? Something in the water they drink?

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One of them way. A major, he thought that me applying to WP/USNA/ROTC/NROTC MO was a good thing so that I could have options but pointed out that if Marines was my top priority the Naval Academy could be a risk because of the obvious possibility of being a SWO.

stlcards2012 said:

One of them way. A major, he thought that me applying to WP/USNA/ROTC/NROTC MO was a good thing so that I could have options but pointed out that if Marines was my top priority the Naval Academy could be a risk because of the obvious possibility of being a SWO.

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And he is correct but to some degree, at least, it's a risk that's in your control. Grades and Physical Fitness will be the biggest factors I expect. You can work hard at both but in some courses and some muscle groups it's just never enough, so it's not entirely in your control. Plus its still a competition.

I don't think I'd spend a lot of time worrying about this, but the risk he stated is a fact. There's also other considerations like cost, military life-style while in college, etc. which should have much more bearing on your decision.

stlcards2012 said:

One of them way. A major, he thought that me applying to WP/USNA/ROTC/NROTC MO was a good thing so that I could have options but pointed out that if Marines was my top priority the Naval Academy could be a risk because of the obvious possibility of being a SWO.

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So this Major also tell you that Naval Academy Marines are not as good as NROTC MO?

It's easier for me since I have made many mistakes and learned from it, but you have to start making decisions based on FACTS. Trust but verify. What do you about this NROTC MO midshipman? Someone's opinion is not a fact. I am assuming you are a good student, if so you should be smart enough to distinguish facts from opinions.

Lastly, if your desire is to be leader and serve you country in the military, Marines is not the only option. I could never understand when a kid tells me that he or she wants serve our country by becoming a military officer, but only in a specific branch.

MemberLG said:

I could never understand when a kid tells me that he or she wants serve our country by becoming a military officer, but only in a specific branch.

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I can. I'm sure in most cases it's just an extremely strong preference perhaps because of family legacy or because of some other fondness for that service. But I can also imagine people being so in love with the water and sailing that serving in the Army or Air Force would be abhorrent to them. Perhaps they grew up on the sea. And I'm sure there are other cases going the other way, like "I'm terrified of the water and can't swim".

Take engineering as an analogy. Some people do just want to be an engineer and don't really have a preference for the type of engineer. Some have more specific aspirations and want to become a chemical engineer, or a mechanical engineer, or an electrical engineer. I don't think you would tell them 'you should just want to be an engineer regardless of what type of engineering it is'. Same is true for services. Some will only thrive in one and not the others. I know my DS has always felt so strongly about becoming a Marine that nothing else would do for him (try as we might to get him to apply for AROTC and AFROTC as well as NROTC MO. Absolutely no luck there ).

MemberLG said:

So this Major also tell you that Naval Academy Marines are not as good as NROTC MO?

It's easier for me since I have made many mistakes and learned from it, but you have to start making decisions based on FACTS. Trust but verify. What do you about this NROTC MO midshipman? Someone's opinion is not a fact. I am assuming you are a good student, if so you should be smart enough to distinguish facts from opinions.

Lastly, if your desire is to be leader and serve you country in the military, Marines is not the only option. I could never understand when a kid tells me that he or she wants serve our country by becoming a military officer, but only in a specific branch.

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No he did not.

I agree with you, I was just looking for some opinions and thoughts. I understand that it is also their opinion, and not fact, and frankly I have never been a marine or experienced this situation personally so I am looking for an unbiased opinion from a former USNA midshipman/marines/ NROTC Midshipman.

stlcards2012 said:

No he did not.

I agree with you, I was just looking for some opinions and thoughts. I understand that it is also their opinion, and not fact, and frankly I have never been a marine or experienced this situation personally so I am looking for an unbiased opinion from a former USNA midshipman/marines/ NROTC Midshipman.

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Opinion

1. a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.
2. a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

By nature, opinions are biased.