Less spots, fewer chances

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USCGA2017hopeful

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While the state of the economy has caused hardships for many people, at the U.S. Coast Guard Academy it has had one surprisingly positive effect: cadets are sticking together more and taking care of one another.

The Coast Guard doesn't need as many new officers because record numbers of officers are staying in the service instead of venturing out into an uncertain job market. Last year only half of all captains were allowed to stay in the service.

Class sizes at the academy have been shrinking. The Class of 2016, which started at 248 and now stands at 223, is the smallest in more than a decade. The Class of 2017 is going to be even smaller, with only 235 spots available.

Cadets who break the rules or don't meet the school's standards often are not getting a second or third chance, as they may have in the past.
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"We're not making any efforts to shove people out," she said. "But on the other hand if they make the choice to get in trouble or not to comply with the standard, then they do it at their own risk because we don't have the service need to give them all those chances."

Regardless of whether the Coast Guard needs to grow or shrink, Stosz said, she is firm with cadets who don't adhere to the service's core values of honor, respect and devotion to duty.
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Explains the same thing is happening with AFA, and likely the other academies as well.


http://theday.com/article/20130114/NWS09/301149957/1017
 
I don't know about the officer retention stats on the officer side, but yes, USMA's entering class size is getting smaller and we have been told that there is a mandate to kick at least 200 people out by the end of this semester, so it is definitely becoming more competitive here.
 
PDB88 said:
I don't know about the officer retention stats on the officer side, but yes, USMA's entering class size is getting smaller and we have been told that there is a mandate to kick at least 200 people out by the end of this semester, so it is definitely becoming more competitive here.
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Part of the issue has to do with the statutory limits of 4000 Cadets in each of the major Service Academies (USMA, USNA, USAFA), I understood that USMA had about 4600 in 2012 and was mandated to get to 4400 by this year. However that is still more than the statutory limit. It will all depend on force structure, if the Army gets smaller there will be less demand on leaders. As it stands now the strategy is for the least amount of restructuring in the Navy and Air Force. Additionally it appears that USAFA is very close to it's statutory limit right now, with USNA about the same size as USMA.
 
I still believe the authorized size of the USMA Corps and USNA Brigade are still 4400 as authorized by congress. I have not heard that the service secretaries have mandated smaller bodies for them:

USMA:
(a) The authorized strength of the Corps of Cadets of the Academy (determined for any year as of the day before the last day of the academic year) is 4,400 or such lower number as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Army under subsection (j).
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(Title 10 › Subtitle B › Part III › Chapter 403 › § 4342)

USNA:
(a) The authorized strength of the Brigade of Midshipmen (determined for any year as of the day before the last day of the academic year) is 4,400 or such lower number as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Navy under subsection (h).
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(Title 10 › Subtitle C › Part III › Chapter 603 › § 6954)

I believe that Air Force has reduced its Corps size to 4000, but it is still allowed by law to max at 4400.

USAFA:
(a) The authorized strength of Air Force Cadets of the Academy (determined for any year as of the day before the last day of the academic year) is 4,400 or such lower number as may be prescribed by the Secretary of the Air Force under subsection (j)
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(Title 10 › Subtitle D › Part III › Chapter 903 › § 9342).
 
In addition to smaller classes, don't expect to see many more of those "he was honest about breaking the rules, so we'll keep him around" honor/conduct violation cases. There most likely won't be that many second chances, and very few third chances.
 
USCGA2017hopeful said:
In addition to smaller classes, don't expect to see many more of those "he was honest about breaking the rules, so we'll keep him around" honor/conduct violation cases. There most likely won't be that many second chances, and very few third chances.
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...says the voice of the experienced candidate?
 
scoutpilot said:
...says the voice of the experienced candidate?
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... Says the voice of someone who knows how to read an article.

Cadets who break the rules or don't meet the school's standards often are not getting a second or third chance, as they may have in the past.
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Simply trying to start a discussion since another user recently posted about lying on his application regarding drug use after receiving an appointment.

There is no need to jump down my throat for that post. It involved nothing that needed personal experience.
 
An honor violation generally ends in getting the boot. A conduct offense was more up in the air, but yes, it seems that no seccond chances.
 
USCGA2017hopeful said:
In addition to smaller classes, don't expect to see many more of those "he was honest about breaking the rules, so we'll keep him around" honor/conduct violation cases. There most likely won't be that many second chances, and very few third chances.
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Exactly 2017! I was right there with you when I read this.

USCGA2017hopeful said:
... Says the voice of someone who knows how to read an article.



Simply trying to start a discussion since another user recently posted about lying on his application regarding drug use after receiving an appointment.

There is no need to jump down my throat for that post. It involved nothing that needed personal experience.
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scoutpilot said:
Often declared, rarely enacted, it seems.
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I saw, maybe 2-5 second chances as a cadet (not my chances, others) for honor. Yes, more chances for conduct, but from what I've heard from someone there now, you have a whole lot less rope now.
 
LineInTheSand said:
An honor violation generally ends in getting the boot. A conduct offense was more up in the air, but yes, it seems that no second chances.
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Former Supe RADM Burhoe gave lots of 2nd chances, he retained many of whom were recommended for disenrollment by the Commandant(s).

RADM Stosz is an iron fist, not even waiting for the Commandant to hold the Mast, she is doing it herself (I don't think Burhoe ever held a Mast while at CGA).

The same Conduct and/or Honor offenses, as well as borderline PFE and grades that were "remediable" in the past, are getting the boot during her tenure - it is being both "declared" and "enacted" with regularity.
 
Luigi59 said:
RADM Stosz is an iron fist, not even waiting for the Commandant to hold the Mast, she is doing it herself (I don't think Burhoe ever held a Mast while at CGA).

The same Conduct and/or Honor offenses, as well as borderline PFE and grades that were "remediable" in the past, are getting the boot during her tenure - it is being both "declared" and "enacted" with regularity.
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Well that Mast was a special case - it was a 1/c cadet who was stealing large amounts of money/valuable from the Corps. He had started doing it when he was the Swab Summer Officer, and was eventually caught at the end of the first semester. The only other way to deal with that case would have been court-martial, and his class would've already graduated by then.

As for the rest, it is true that you're way less likely to get retained if you get masted. 9 of my classmates were masted last semester for a conduct case over the summer, and only a third of them remain. It really is getting tougher around here if you get in trouble.

Sadly, my class is almost as small as 2016. :frown:
 
SamAca10 said:
Well that Mast was a special case - it was a 1/c cadet who was stealing large amounts of money/valuable from the Corps. He had started doing it when he was the Swab Summer Officer, and was eventually caught at the end of the first semester. The only other way to deal with that case would have been court-martial, and his class would've already graduated by then.

As for the rest, it is true that you're way less likely to get retained if you get masted. 9 of my classmates were masted last semester for a conduct case over the summer, and only a third of them remain. It really is getting tougher around here if you get in trouble.

Sadly, my class is almost as small as 2016. :frown:
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33% getting a second chance is still pretty good.
 
scoutpilot said:
33% getting a second chance is still pretty good.
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They were all originally recommended to be disenrolled, but luckily their appeal went through. And they had a lot of character witnesses/high performance (academic,military,physical) built up from their time spent here, which certainly helped
 
I was pre-Rear Adm. Burhoe, who, we may want to remind people, was an OCS grad.

Rear Adm. Van Sice gave a few "second chances" for honor violations, two of which I put up and were voted 9-0 and 5-4 disenrollment (or was it a 7-person honor board, then it would have been 7-0, 4-3).

Honor, for me, should send you out the door, no second chances. Conduct is case by case. I can't remember a single classmate who was recommended for disenrollment but graduated with us. Maybe one got by, but I can't remember any.
 
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