Post Academy plans

E

Eneq

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Just a quick question, I'm sorry if this is has already been asked before. My two plans for after the USNA are either being a SEAL or a pilot. If my SEAL plans don't turn out, how hard is it to get back in the pilot pipeline? Thanks in advance
 
I'm sure someone with better insight will answer this, but I would imagine that would be very difficult. If things don't work out as a SEAL, either because you change your mind or you're not good at it, it does not look good for you. Best bet at that point might be to kill someone, assume their identity, apply to an academy with the new identity and work hard to be selected as a pilot. If you can fake the death of your real identity and collect the insurance money, so much the better
Edited to add I'm assuming you are talking about wanting to be a pilot if things don't work out after you are selected for SEAL.
 
I'd assume same, i.e. that you are assuming you are one of 30 or so who are selected for BUD/S training, you go, flunk out, which is, as you know, a not unusual or infrequent occurance.

The general answer is that being picked up by one warfare community after being separated from another can be challenging and a real crap-shoot. The powers of one are reluctant to take cast-offs from another community, not wanting to be viewed as the "dumping ground" for those who did not cut it in another community. Politics and egoes rear their heads. Still, I know one who was recently ex-communicated in week #1 in BUD/S and managed to land an EOD slot. That one was also a "no-go" and the ensign was reassigned to a restricted line desk job. All those steps are unpredictable, perhaps even unlikely. This specific case may have been enabled by the Navy's call to diversify and prioritize, which does not end with graduation and commissioning. Not for us to know, only observe and speculate.

But in any case, suffice it to say, none should put many or any chips in the pot of the gamble in being able to change from one select to another community after the fact of entry.

And while your situation is "down the road", watching the pending reductions being orchestrated by our administration, this may become even more daunting, and definitely not a realistic plan. Not saying it can't happen. Just saying I'd not place a plug nickel on it absent some specific circumstances.
 
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This reminds me of when I was an enlisted going through an aviation A school (many years ago). We were regularly warned that if we rocked out of our school we would go to ordnance or crash fire rescue. No offense to those communities, but no one wanted that. There would be no lateral transfers to air traffic control or avionics. No sir.
 
Whistle Pig said:
I'd assume same, i.e. that you are assuming you are one of 30 or so who are selected for BUD/S training, you go, flunk out, which is, as you know, a not unusual or infrequent occurance.
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As I had it explained to me at CVW by someone who had a roommate select SEALs, the BUD/S graduation rate for those coming out of USNA now is actually quite good (upper 90%) because of the extent of pre-screening they now put Mids through in the service selection process for SEALs.

That being said it is still a challenge to select SEALs or a pilot position from USNA. Both are highly sought-after selections that will go to those at the top of their class.

However, it's possible that if you figure out early on in your Academy experience that SEALs won't be a viable option, there is the possibility you could go pilot. I just wouldn't count on leaving BUD/S and then getting a chance to go to flight school.
 
It seems you've some misinformation and/or misunderstanding about how this works. No doubt others will clarify a bit.
 
If you fail BUD/S, you will NOT get to go to flight school. Maybe once upon a time, but not anymore. The way things are right now you will at best redesignate to SWO and more likely end up either restricted line or a civilian.

Navy pilot is not hard to get. Pass a flight physical and the ASTB? You've got a good chance.
 
Hurricane12 said:
If you fail BUD/S, you will NOT get to go to flight school. Maybe once upon a time, but not anymore. The way things are right now you will at best redesignate to SWO and more likely end up either restricted line or a civilian.

Navy pilot is not hard to get. Pass a flight physical and the ASTB? You've got a good chance.
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Thanks Hurricane.

While I've not seen reliable stats on USNA grads success in completing BUD/S and ensuing SEAL training, generally 75-80% do not. Seems to me suggesting that USNA alumni succeed in "the high 90%s" would be unlikely. Anyone know?
 
Whistle Pig said:
Thanks Hurricane.

While I've not seen reliable stats on USNA grads success in completing BUD/S and ensuing SEAL training, generally 75-80% do not. Seems to me suggesting that USNA alumni succeed in "the high 90%s" would be unlikely. Anyone know?
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Can't say I know the stats but 90% seems out of the question. I have read of excellent pre-screening programs that have achieved 70% (see
SEAL of Honor: Operation Red Wings and the Life of LT. Michael P Murphy (USN)) but these were not at the Academy. As you state, generally 70-80% do not complete BUD/S. That being said I would think the pre-screening program at USNA would have a success rate far higher than the general USN population. The mental toughness required is truly incredible.
 
Thanks for the info. It seems that I have to pick one or the other.
 
More correctly, the Navy will pick. The rule, while overstating the realities, is always "needs of the Navy" prevail. But that is not usually as one-sided and heavy-handed as it appears.

As you might get to your service select time at the Academy (generally early fall of the firstie/senior year), you will inform your superiors of your "preference." While most will receive their top preference, or maybe one of two top preferences, that is somewhat misleading in that by that time most have a good feel for the potential for being selected from their preferred warfare communities.
 
I'll just put out there that while I don't know if the percentage is as high as 90%, Academy guys traditionally do very well at BUD/S not just because of the screening process but because they don't get sent until they're ready. The SEAL Officer on yard makes sure those guys are very well prepped.
 
They try not to broadly publish the numbers but I've heard that about 33% is the current graduation rate for a BUD/S class -- this may NOT include rollbacks though (or it may) -- so 33% might be understating the percentage chance of any one individual to complete BUD/S (if it just looks at finishing "on time" with your class and doesn't count rollbacks).

Friends in the SEAL community have confirmed that (a) the overall graduation rate for officers in BUD/S is significantly higher than for the enlisted guys; and (b) even for officers, the USNA graduation rate is significantly higher.

On the first point, my friends generally think it's a combination of factors: (1) officers in BUD/S trend older than enlisted, so they often have a better sense of what they want and are better able to resist distractions during BUD/S; (2) it is more selective to get an officer slot; (3) officers know it is pretty much "one and done" whereas enlisted guys know they have a better chance of going back into the Fleet and getting another shot at BUD/S down the line; and (4) the USNA guys have great preparation and that drives up the overall officer success rate.

Specifically looking at number (4) above, as Hurricane referenced, USNA not only has a good screening process (lots of PT monsters learn they actually can't stand immersion in cold water during the SEAL screener, it turns out) but then preps the guys big time before they head to BUD/S.

I think 90+% is high -- there's still the injury risk -- but from anecdotal accounts of USNA guys on their BUD/S experience, I could see the USNA rate as being around 70%. Still just guessing on this, though.
 
GoSox said:
They try not to broadly publish the numbers but I've heard that about 33% is the current graduation rate for a BUD/S class -- this may NOT include rollbacks though (or it may) -- so 33% might be understating the percentage chance of any one individual to complete BUD/S (if it just looks at finishing "on time" with your class and doesn't count rollbacks).

Friends in the SEAL community have confirmed that (a) the overall graduation rate for officers in BUD/S is significantly higher than for the enlisted guys; and (b) even for officers, the USNA graduation rate is significantly higher.

On the first point, my friends generally think it's a combination of factors: (1) officers in BUD/S trend older than enlisted, so they often have a better sense of what they want and are better able to resist distractions during BUD/S; (2) it is more selective to get an officer slot; (3) officers know it is pretty much "one and done" whereas enlisted guys know they have a better chance of going back into the Fleet and getting another shot at BUD/S down the line; and (4) the USNA guys have great preparation and that drives up the overall officer success rate.

Specifically looking at number (4) above, as Hurricane referenced, USNA not only has a good screening process (lots of PT monsters learn they actually can't stand immersion in cold water during the SEAL screener, it turns out) but then preps the guys big time before they head to BUD/S.

I think 90+% is high -- there's still the injury risk -- but from anecdotal accounts of USNA guys on their BUD/S experience, I could see the USNA rate as being around 70%. Still just guessing on this, though.
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I can believe 70 or even 80%. But, as my wife reminds me, I've been known to be wrong from time to time.
 
As far as the graduation rate from BUD/S, for my class from USNA (2009) all, but one successfully completed the pipeline. The one was someone who lateral transferred from another community after a tour. The rates tend to vary from class-to-class, but I would peg graduation rate from BUD/S for USNA types at the high-80%/low-90%. Much due to the preparation, and level of screening conducted prior to reporting for training.
 
The percentage I've heard thrown around NAPS is roughly 85-86% success rate, but I've haven't been able to find confirmation online from a reliable source.
 
USNA success rates at BUDS is extremely high, especially compared to the other commissioning sources and enlisted side. At one point when I was at USNA, they had only one drop out in approximately 10 years of USNA grads. My class and the other classes I went to school with were slightly less than that. I think my class ended up with 2 drops total. Our SEAL selectees were smaller in number then also, they select many more now from the numbers I have seen. That seemed to be roughly the trend I saw with my neighboring classes as well. USNA does a very thorough job between screeners, mini-BUDS, interview, etc of who will make it and who won't. The enlisted and officer SEALS on the yard spend a tremendous amount of time preparing the Mids. Especially with service selection being a few months earlier than it used to be I think that can only help.

And yes as mentioned for anyone who doesn't make it through schools it will be at the needs of the Navy. In today's current climate I believe that means also becoming a civilian very quickly. We have some very young grads in our Alumni Chapter gatherings who were not given a choice when they didn't make it through schools.
 
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