FWIW, this is an interesting critique:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs=comments
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs=comments
FWIW, this is an interesting critique:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...mod=WSJ_article_comments#articleTabs=comments
That's odd. You're right, when you open the link in my post you can't read the article. But if you google "Lindsay Rodman" "Wall Street Journal" you can get to the article and read it. it is well worth the read in light on the issues discussed on this thread.
This whole issue to me is about are we letting the right people into the SA's and are we removing them when we find out they are not right for the SA.
An excellent article on this http://usnaorbust.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/what-is-the-usna-honor-code/.
I 100% agree with Dick Couch: "No, said Dick Couch, a retired SEAL captain who taught ethics at the academy last year and is a well* known writer on ethics in the mili*tary. “Honor is being treated as a teachable thing, as if there is some trial and error with it, and that’s the current stance. I don’t particu*larly agree with it,” he said."
OK, call me a simple man - but - if you feel that the selection process you presently use had issues, then you should correct those things feeding in to the system before you get the finished product, right?
Let's look at a manufacturing process. If you are examining the things coming out of the production line - a line you completely own and control - and that you designed; and you find an inferior product coming out the other end, what do you do?
1. Stop the production line, find out where the errors are taking place, correct or replace those things causing the errors; or ..
2. Keep the same process in place, hire a bunch of guys with hammers and files, and toss the finished product to them to correct and smooth the product before delivering it to the customer.
Guess which choice our Navy has chosen?
This whole issue to me is about are we letting the right people into the SA's and are we removing them when we find out they are not right for the SA.
An excellent article on this http://usnaorbust.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/what-is-the-usna-honor-code/.
I 100% agree with Dick Couch: "No, said Dick Couch, a retired SEAL captain who taught ethics at the academy last year and is a well* known writer on ethics in the mili*tary. “Honor is being treated as a teachable thing, as if there is some trial and error with it, and that’s the current stance. I don’t particu*larly agree with it,” he said."
I keep thinking for every well qualified excepted cadet there was 14 who were not accepted, and I am sure one of them would have demostrated they have honor, intergrety and discipline built into their core that all parties involved did not demonstrate.
The underage cadet lacked discipline and drank alcohol illegally. Her guilt stops there!!! The football players lacked discipline, intergrety for allowing underage cadets to drink at their party and for serving accessive amounts to an individual. They lacked honor by posting what they did on social media.
(I will not comment on other issue until evidence is provided)
Know of a kid who did not get accepted but had a great resume who on his own accord, would not give another boy a ride home from an event because he was only 17.99 years old (4 hours from turning 18) and you have to be 18.00 years old to legal drive with another sub-18 year in our state. He waited with the kid until his parents showed, than drove himself home...That is what SA should be looking for when it comes to honor, intergety, and discipline.
I have a question, Please understand I am making no negative comments towards any of the Academies.
There have been several stories such as the one that started this thread regarding sexual assaults at various Acadamies. What I have not seen is articles about ROTC cadets being charged with sexual assault. I tried a couple google searches and could only find a couple cases that involved instructors with JROTC, disgusting in itself, but I could not find any for Senior ROTC.
Is the culture different at the acadamies, is it due to the large percentage of male to female ratio.
I am in no way claiming that there have not been any cases involving ROTC, I just couldn't find any, someone else may know.
I have a question, Please understand I am making no negative comments towards any of the Academies.
There have been several stories such as the one that started this thread regarding sexual assaults at various Acadamies. What I have not seen is articles about ROTC cadets being charged with sexual assault. I tried a couple google searches and could only find a couple cases that involved instructors with JROTC, disgusting in itself, but I could not find any for Senior ROTC.
Is the culture different at the acadamies, is it due to the large percentage of male to female ratio.
I am in no way claiming that there have not been any cases involving ROTC, I just couldn't find any, someone else may know.
I have a question, Please understand I am making no negative comments towards any of the Academies.
There have been several stories such as the one that started this thread regarding sexual assaults at various Acadamies. What I have not seen is articles about ROTC cadets being charged with sexual assault. I tried a couple google searches and could only find a couple cases that involved instructors with JROTC, disgusting in itself, but I could not find any for Senior ROTC.
Is the culture different at the acadamies, is it due to the large percentage of male to female ratio.
I am in no way claiming that there have not been any cases involving ROTC, I just couldn't find any, someone else may know.
I keep thinking for every well qualified excepted cadet there was 14 who were not accepted, and I am sure one of them would have demostrated they have honor, intergrety and discipline built into their core that all parties involved did not demonstrate.
The underage cadet lacked discipline and drank alcohol illegally. Her guilt stops there!!! The football players lacked discipline, intergrety for allowing underage cadets to drink at their party and for serving accessive amounts to an individual. They lacked honor by posting what they did on social media.
(I will not comment on other issue until evidence is provided)
Know of a kid who did not get accepted but had a great resume who on his own accord, would not give another boy a ride home from an event because he was only 17.99 years old (4 hours from turning 18) and you have to be 18.00 years old to legal drive with another sub-18 year in our state. He waited with the kid until his parents showed, than drove himself home...That is what SA should be looking for when it comes to honor, intergety, and discipline.
ROTC students would have statistics rolled into the college statistics. They are not treated as separate from the student population. There are current studies that suggest that 1 in 5 to 1 in 4 women at civilian colleges are subject to sexual assaults, usually from an acquaintance and often while intoxicated. In fact at Yale the rate of sexual assaults is greater than that of the city of New Haven which is a city that ranks among the highest in the United States for crime. Another way of looking at it is that you would be safer from sexual assault in downtown New Haven at midnight than on the campus of Yale.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-combat-historic-sexual-misconduct-rates.html
I think the service academies are the big shiny objects. Everyone there is in the military. For ROTC, the story is a college student raped someone... and in the story somewhere he was also an ROTC cadet. At an academy.... you already know they serve.
I have no doubt there are plenty of sexual assault cases involving ROTC programs. But like cheating in a civilian school, they don't make the headlines.
Not to pick on falconfamily but keep in mind that sexual assault includes but is not limited to rape. Nor, in the case of a flasher, does it actually involve assault on anything other than the eyes. As a country I think we need to do a better job of describing the statistics as most people think sexual assault always involves, at least, something more than mere undesired physical contact. Just saying we need to treat these stats with a grain of salt unless we also understand what lies beneath them.
Not to pick on falconfamily but keep in mind that sexual assault includes but is not limited to rape. Nor, in the case of a flasher, does it actually involve assault on anything other than the eyes. As a country I think we need to do a better job of describing the statistics as most people think sexual assault always involves, at least, something more than mere undesired physical contact. Just saying we need to treat these stats with a grain of salt unless we also understand what lies beneath them.
In the State of Washington if you pull over to the side of the road, stand behind a bush and, well, releive yourself and are caught in the act by the police, you have to register as a Low Level Sex Offender. Gives a whole new importance to "Make sure you go before we leave the house"
I fully understand that point, but given your example, one might also wonder how broadly these SA statistics are impacting the military. Numbers are just numbers, unless one can fully understand the context. But it is unwise to dismiss them just because you don't like what they seem to be saying.
At least 1 in 4 college women will be the victim of a sexual assault during her academic career. Hirsch, Kathleen (1990)”Fraternities of Fear: Gang Rape, Male Bonding, and the Silencing of Women.” Ms., 1(2) 52-56.
There are 35.3 incidents of sexual assault per 1,000 female students on a campus as recorded over a 6.91 month period (the academic year of ‘96 – ’97) as reported in the 2000 DOJ Bureau of Justice Statistics report “The Sexual Victimization of College Women.”
Never meant to say I would dismiss what they say, just that they should be expanded to differentiate the specific abuse.
Given these statistics, online universities look very attractive.