New Policies

JMC0759

JMC0759

S-USMMA '12 SUNY 15, D-USAFA '15 TTUHSC '20
10-Year Member
5-Year Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2008
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296
My cadet told me that there will be no more 'Section Eight" at football games and that IC's will no longer sit with their teammates at meals. All athletes will now sit with their squads. I wonder how the coaches will feel about that decision.
 
The Commandant of Cadets has made this decision with the agreement of the coaches.
It will be the responsibility of the cadet element leader of the table to ensure everyone gets their required amount of food.

With regards to Section 8... it's supposed to be for the rowdiest fans, but now it has simply turned into an excuse to not wear your uniform and just chill in civilian clothes at football games. This is why it was removed.
 
How will the Cadet Element Leader

know what is the required amount of food? Will C4C IC's then be able to eat instead of performing other requirements during meal time?
 
Spirit Cheese!!!

Years ago I used to have season tickets to AF football games. When AF made a touchdown the cadets and spectators would throw hundreds of kraft american cheese slices onto the field. Don't ask me why, it was in place well before I started going to games. It was discontinued in the mid to late 90's if I'm not mistaken. Go Zoomies!!!:jump1:
 
Question regarding this... is this for all meals? Prior to this policy, did a IC eat all meals with the team or just certain ones? Was this year round or just while in season? Sorry, I am from Navy and not as familiar with the AF way of things... mostly just curious.
 
When my DD was a 4C, (now a 2C), she had to eat breakfast with her squad, but she could eat lunch with her team.
 
AHS74 said:
When my DD was a 4C, (now a 2C), she had to eat breakfast with her squad, but she could eat lunch with her team.
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing, AHS. And please know... sincerely... I mean no disrespect in any way at all! But maybe a clue as to why the policy change has happened can be found in your daughter's choice of words...

Shouldn't the "had to" and "could" be reversed? I would think we want our IC cadets to desire being with their squad first, afterall they should be officers-in-training before college atheletes right?

Parts of this topic have already been politely debated in other threads; so I won't hijack this one. :) IMHO it sounds like the new policy might be a good change.
 
I was just stating the policy, not her frame of mind. She runs track and cross country, always in season. Believe me, she does not take advantage of her status as an IC.
 
Not hijacking the thread. But the academies have always been at a disadvantage in athletics to traditional school. Mainly because of size, weight, and academic standards to get into the academy. One way we've overcome this and have been as successful as we have been, is our team concept. Most traditional schools, athletes are involved in team building a couple hours a day during practice. Other hours, they are simply individuals who may clique together sometimes. The academies are all about teamwork. I have no problem with making athletes sit with their squadron for breakfast and possibly lunch. Dinner isn'tandatory formation. But having the athletes together enhances the team concept that much more.

Basically, I don't think athletes sitting with the rest of the squadron is going to improve the tzo gap.
 
My DD is an IC, and she was glad to have had the respite of IC ramps at lunchtime as a C4C but she thinks there are lots of ways for the ICs to bond together in other ways, not just at lunchtime. Usually the athletes troop in with their teams after practice for dinner and can eat as much as they want and at rest with their teammates, I understand. She also gave me a statistic that 58% of the cadets (some pretty high number) are ICs so I would imagine it didn't make much sense to maintain the separation at lunchtime.
Also I have heard that USAFA is trying to control food waste, so cutting down the number of tables served is certainly a way to do it. My DD says that her IC table consistently does not eat their share of food. As far as eating enough, my DD reports that there are bins of fruit, yogurt, those tuna/cracker packets, granola bars and whatnot that are there for the taking. I think the leadership will ensure that those who need to eat extra big can do so. They wouldn't just change one thing without adjusting in other ways as well.
 
My C1C DS started as a IC and sat with teammates at mealtimes C4C and C3C and first 1/2 of C2C years.
Over time, it appeared he was quite isolated from his squad (a mom's observation, not confirmed by DS). He ended up independently resigning from the IC team for various reasons. He is having a blast and developing nice qualities (mom's observation again) being bonded to squad and roommate.
Altho it saddened this mom when he left the team...he seems so much 'better' being a 'NARP'...altho it seems he spends way more time in the gym then in the classroom.....

Shifting time and experiences between the IC team and the cadet squad seems like a good idea overall (not yet substantiated by DS...purely conjecture by this mom).
(note: the complete avoidance of stirring-the-proverbial-pot!!)
 
Melinda. I think your daughters numbers are pretty far off. I can't right now tell you how many ice cadets there are, but basic math says 58% is way off base. There are 27 ic sports at the academy. Football has the most players. They don't keep all of them, but let's say they had 80 players. If ALL 27 sports had 80 players, that would be 2160 athletes. That would be right at 50% of the student body. Now, do you think basketball, soccer, track, and all those sports have 80 ic athletes each? Even if each only had 40 athletes, that would be around 25%. I think the last time I checked, it was between 20-25% of the student body that were also ic athletes.

Actually, if the majority of cadets were ic, I don't think there's be the tzo gap or a need to change policies. Athletes would be the majority.
 
Terrazzo Gap refers to the perceived difference in treatment that USAFA athletes receive over the other cadets. Some people don't think it exists and others seem sure it does.
 
It definitely exists. But such special treatment happens in all groups. Even d&b, wings of blue, and any other. Its just more recognized in sports because there's 27 different teams and about a fourth of the cadet wing.
 
Christcorp said:
Melinda. I think your daughters numbers are pretty far off. I can't right now tell you how many ice cadets there are, but basic math says 58% is way off base. There are 27 ic sports at the academy. Football has the most players. They don't keep all of them, but let's say they had 80 players. If ALL 27 sports had 80 players, that would be 2160 athletes. That would be right at 50% of the student body. Now, do you think basketball, soccer, track, and all those sports have 80 ic athletes each? Even if each only had 40 athletes, that would be around 25%. I think the last time I checked, it was between 20-25% of the student body that were also ic athletes.

Actually, if the majority of cadets were ic, I don't think there's be the tzo gap or a need to change policies. Athletes would be the majority.
Click to expand...

Hmmm....you're right. I didn't do the math. Not sure where she got that number.
Anyhoo, I'm sure her attitude that it's no big deal is colored by the fact that as a 3C it's not as big a deal as when you're a 4C. And since she's not one of those who needs to eat alot for her sport, it's not a big deal. Her dad, by contrast, who was an IC at USAFA about a million years ago, thinks it's too bad that they are doing away with ramps. He thinks the athletes have alot going on and deserve a little concession (yes, opinions will differ) so that they can eat lunch in relative peace. And he was also an athlete who needed to eat a ton of food just to keep from losing weight with all the rigors of USAFA life.
My impression is the cadets will deal with it and move on.
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here and admit that after lurking on SAF for over a year or so that DS and I decided maybe he DID want to think of pursuing his sports at an SA partially because of the ramps meals. I think it definetely sounds like the best way to eat meals...actually eating them and sharing the time with your team family rather than what the squads were doing (yes, that is a part of the academy, and future-officer building, I get all that). And that's a perspective of people that weren't even eligible to apply yet.

So I also wonder how many cadets may decide not to try for a walk-on position without these "perks." Which of course means the sport is better off without them if those are their reasons, however, everyone has their reasons and motivations for what they do.

But overall, agree with melinda, do think it will all blow over and the cadets will adjust as they always will.
 
I'm still perplexed at the ramps arguments. I was never unable to eat enough food at lunch during any year as a cadet. Lack of food was not a problem and I didn't know anyone else who had that issue. To include athletes who would come sit with the squadron at lunch. I also frequented the girls tennis ramps table and they certainly never felt lacking in food (lots of leftovers). Girls' diet aside, the availability of additional food in bins wasn't scarce.

I've always felt ramps was an unnecessary privilege that only made the NARPs resent the ICs. I lost count of the number of days I saw the football/soccer/hockey/baseball ramps tables with uniforms that would get one sent to a commanders office as an LT or the disgusting behavior that was common (food fights, blatant misogyny, hooting at the staff tower in appropriately even with VIPs around, etc). A welcome policy change....while it lasts.
 
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