ROTC cadets, recent graduates offered release from service commitments

T-Bone said:
http://www.airforcetimes.com/articl...ates-offered-release-from-service-commitments

Has this type of thing ever occurred before?
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I was assigned to the Air Force Personnel Center (AFPC) from '86 to '90 and we instituted similar reductions in '87 although ROTC cadets on scholarship were required to pay back everything. Not sure if we did something similar with the big drawdown in the mid-90s or not. Link takes you to an article in the AF Magazine written by the then AF/A1 Lt Gen Hickey outlining the actions the AF took in '87.

http://www.airforcemag.com/MagazineArchive/Pages/1987/May 1987/0587manpower.aspx
 
Yes it has happened before. At our DS det. it happened in 10, except back then they did not find out until March, and they were not offered the opportunity to leave, instead they were told that they would not be commissioning.

I know it happen back in the late 80's/early 90's too.

This is like when they offer VSP for ADAF. It is targeted to certain yr groups and certain career fields. In the AF they always try to maintain a ratio not only between officer to enlisted, but also between flag to field, field to company grade. If one of the ratios are off, than they will do something like this.

OBTW the mods need to combine this thread with the other one already started.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=34894

I have to say I am a little shocked that it is happening to this yr group because if I remember this is the yr group that they cut the amount of AFA appointments and AFROTC scholarships, and their SFT numbers were the same as previous yrs. They also dis-enrolled anyone not selected for SFT. I would have thought between AFA and AFROTC this would be the lowest yr group in yrs.
 
Back in 90's the AFROTC unit at my school only commissioned a couple of people. The rest were told thanks for the effort, but we have no space for you. There was no requirement for repayment of scholarship.

While I was in Naval flight training in the 90's, there were at least three times we were offered the opportunity to leave with not strings attached. One of them was post winging awaiting a RAG slot. Only a couple of people took it.
OS
 
Pima said:
I have to say I am a little shocked that it is happening to this yr group because if I remember this is the yr group that they cut the amount of AFA appointments and AFROTC scholarships, and their SFT numbers were the same as previous yrs. They also dis-enrolled anyone not selected for SFT. I would have thought between AFA and AFROTC this would be the lowest yr group in yrs.
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This is the AFROTC class (2014) that they cut the HSSP scholarships. USAFA began their cuts with class year 2015.
 
Pima said:
Yes it has happened before. At our DS det. it happened in 10, except back then they did not find out until March, and they were not offered the opportunity to leave, instead they were told that they would not be commissioning.

I know it happen back in the late 80's/early 90's too.

This is like when they offer VSP for ADAF. It is targeted to certain yr groups and certain career fields. In the AF they always try to maintain a ratio not only between officer to enlisted, but also between flag to field, field to company grade. If one of the ratios are off, than they will do something like this.

OBTW the mods need to combine this thread with the other one already started.
http://www.serviceacademyforums.com/showthread.php?t=34894

I have to say I am a little shocked that it is happening to this yr group because if I remember this is the yr group that they cut the amount of AFA appointments and AFROTC scholarships, and their SFT numbers were the same as previous yrs. They also dis-enrolled anyone not selected for SFT. I would have thought between AFA and AFROTC this would be the lowest yr group in yrs.
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Pima, do you think this voluntary separation period will be followed by a RIF-like period in ROTC?
 
The article lists specific career fields...but my DS has not been told what his will be. Do other cadets of 2014 know their AFSC?
 
homewith4 said:
The article lists specific career fields...but my DS has not been told what his will be. Do other cadets of 2014 know their AFSC?
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He should be finding out his AFSC this week. They were released December 2nd.
 
SoleTrain said:
Pima, do you think this voluntary separation period will be followed by a RIF-like period in ROTC?
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It depends on how many they need to cut. If you look back to infamous 92 RIF, they had targeted the 85 ROTC grads. 95% was their targeted number to get rid from the reserve group. They did not save any AFSC from the chopping block including fighter pilots. In the end they did do a big RIF because the economy stunk, and most believe, especially fighter guys that earned medals only a yr earlier for the Gulf.
~~~This was also the time that you saw the UPT pipeline almost down to a drip. If you pop over on the AFA threads you will see that at some bases the classes are being backed up by 3-4 months. Not only for UPT, but UNT too, thus history is repeating itself again.

The point is if they need only a small %, than chances are great that they will not do a RIF like release, but if it a high % than the chances are greater. Again, the economy will likely play a factor, especially for those that were not scholarship because financially the toll is not very high compared to not being able to find a job right out of college.
~~~I.E. our DD (not ROTC) is graduating in May, most/all of her friends, and herself already have their post graduation life in order, or near in order. She spent the fall applying for grad school fellowships, received her fellowship before Thanksgiving. Her other friends have been interviewing for jobs, and deciding which offers to take upon graduation.

These cadets thought they had their careers sewn up, and now over winter break they need to look for plan B and let's be honest if you live in Utah or Idaho and want to return home, there is not a big world of employers that need people that speak Arabic located there. On the flip side they may believe that speaking Arabic will keep them safe if they were to RIF so they won't volunteer to separate.

Which comes back to the fact it is going to come down to the % they need to release. Arabic may save them if they need to RIF another 10%, but not if it is going to be 50%+ because the fact is they most likely have enough already in the system to spread the wealth for Arabic, since many have been majoring/minoring for yrs in Arabic, and now the powers that we are looking at is Chinese and those would be the ones that might be safe since very few will have a degree in that major.

It will be interesting to see what the AF does for AFROTC SFT selection since they are now saying that non-tech majors wanting non-rated slots are the in jeopardy group for EA selection.

I think come Feb/Mar a lot of news will be flying around for 14, 15 and 16. 15 for the rated boards. The last few yrs rated selection was @95% nationally, so if they drop statistically it might impact the non-rated board for them, and they could be in the same place as 14.
 
Just wondering if any Det's have briefed their 400 cadets on the reduction in AFSC slots? I would imagine that not to many 400's would volunteer for this after spending 3+ years of their life in AFROTC.
 
FlyingWildcatDad said:
Just wondering if any Det's have briefed their 400 cadets on the reduction in AFSC slots? I would imagine that not to many 400's would volunteer for this after spending 3+ years of their life in AFROTC.
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It's not so much a reduction of AFSC slots but overall officer production needs. With AFSCs released a cadet might jump on this if:

(1) They have received an AFSC that they did not want

(2) Are on scholarship and walk away from the program with no obligation

Pretty good deal then!
 
Not sure I agree.

Cyber is on that list.

No offense to Personnel, Acquisition and Contracting, I am with Flying. This economy is not booming, and companies aren't spending money currently.
The problem IMPO comes back to their major and where they want to live.
~~~~ Arabic major, with military background can find a nice job at the UN or in DC, but not in TX or AZ.
~~~~ Econ major might find their ROTC background will help them with Raytheon, Lockheed, Booze Allen, SAIC, L-3 ,Comm.

The problem is they will not truly don't know if he should bolt unless he uses the next 6 weeks sending out resumes.

As a Mom of a UPT student, he entered taking the chance they will give him anything when they tracked. The Guard peers entered knowing they would get whatever their state flies.

The article even says contact your ANG unit. The fact is there are full time officers at the Guard unit, and many AFROTC cadets don't place it into the equation.

Lastly, this was my red flag.
Recent graduates in the Individual Ready Reserve who are waiting to enter active duty also may be eligible for release from their military service commitment, according to a release.
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In essence, they are saying they want to reduce even the 13 grads.
 
I talked to my DS tonight and asked him if he had heard of any 400's at his Det being briefed on the article published in the Air Force Times, and he said that they were and some were offered the release. So I guess the cadre are talking to the non rated 400 cadets that received AFSC's that were listed in the article for reduction?
 
Looking at the list I would say that they are going to be talking to the majority of the cadets.
 
I forgot to say, one thing that will be interesting is what will happen to the rated officers if they bust UPT/UNT/ABM/RPA schools for the 13 and 14 yr group.

Typically @25% will bust either IFS or UPT/UNT. It happened at DS's IFS class, and during the T-6 phase. One of his classmates busted, and was than sent to Goodfellows to become an Intel officer.

I am thinking they will go back the 90's way. Bust either of these schools and the likelihood of getting walking papers will be quite high. The pressure not to hook a ride, especially if they have to take an 88 is insane, now add onto it if they know that they will be shown the door permanently as in their AF career.
 
My friend who is IRR, waiting to start active duty, got an email that said all AFROTC grads with an entry to active duty date after February 2014 were offered the chance to voluntarily release from their contact.
 
Correct from what I see, posted by the Det CC at Auburn with a list of AFSC's yesterday.

V/R

ROMAD :eek:
 
sancontoa said:
My friend who is IRR, waiting to start active duty, got an email that said all AFROTC grads with an entry to active duty date after February 2014 were offered the chance to voluntarily release from their contact.
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Wow, when the AF Slash and Burns, they really Slash and Burn.
 
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