Law School?

I am on an AROTC scholarship as an Aeronautical Science major at Embry-Riddle and hopefully will enter the Aviation branch when I commission. I may be thinking a long way down the road but what is the possibility of being able to go to law school after a few years as a pilot? I know the FLEP program is extremely selective so are there other options that I can go to law school while still serving?

Tooler_1024 said:

I am on an AROTC scholarship as an Aeronautical Science major at Embry-Riddle and hopefully will enter the Aviation branch when I commission. I may be thinking a long way down the road but what is the possibility of being able to go to law school after a few years as a pilot? I know the FLEP program is extremely selective so are there other options that I can go to law school while still serving?

Click to expand...

Trying to do it on AD without any special program making it your full time job (very rare) is essentially nil. Just go when you get out then you have the time and energy to attend a tier 1 program.

This is besides ed delay and I don't think GRADSO applies in this situation obviously because of law school length.

Tooler_1024 said:

I am on an AROTC scholarship as an Aeronautical Science major at Embry-Riddle and hopefully will enter the Aviation branch when I commission. I may be thinking a long way down the road but what is the possibility of being able to go to law school after a few years as a pilot? I know the FLEP program is extremely selective so are there other options that I can go to law school while still serving?

Click to expand...

First, congratulations on your scholarship.

As I'm sure you know, Aviation is the hardest branch to commission, start strong and be prepared to continue that hard work for your first 3 years. A few things you should shoot for, a Min. 3.5 CGPA at the end of your junior year, 300 APFT, every EC you can belong to or participate in ROTC, train hard because you will need an E at LDAC. If you can finish in the top 10% of the Active Duty OML you'll be guaranteed your choice. Best advice is to do the best you can with the things you can control GPA and APFT.

As far as law school after a few years as a pilot that is going to be tough.

Remember that the Service Obligation for the Aviation Branch is different then every other branch. While ROTC Scholarship cadets are required a 4 year Active Duty obligation (If they commission AD), Aviation has it's own obligation.

The service obligation for Aviation is 6 years after you graduate Flight School. Flight School can take anywhere from 14 to 18 months to complete, sometimes longer. From the time you graduate college and commission it may be months and up to a year before you even start Flight School.The Army is going to want those 6 years in branch from you due the the amount of money they have spent training you.

So if you branch Aviation you can figure you will be Active for nearly 8 years before you have completed your obligation.

If you are thinking about Law School you may want to consider a different branch when it comes to commission. You'll have plenty of time to work all this out.

Also please correct me if I am wrong but LT's,Capts and higher don't get to fly very often. Most flying done by WO. Is that correct?

I was shown round a Chinhook last year, the pilot was a Major, maybe rare, but please don't tell him WO's do all the flying. PS he was from Fort Campbell.

sheriff3 said:

Also please correct me if I am wrong but LT's,Capts and higher don't get to fly very often. Most flying done by WO. Is that correct?

Click to expand...

This was true in the past, but has changed in recent years. There was a time when a Battalion Commander may only have about 500 total hours. With the recent change in philosophy, this is now very rare. Hard to command and lead troops if you have not experienced what they are experiencing.

LTs and W2s are now getting relatively the same flight time. There is a big push to make sure all LTs are PICs and in some units even Flight Leads.

sheriff3 said:

Also please correct me if I am wrong but LT's,Capts and higher don't get to fly very often. Most flying done by WO. Is that correct?

Click to expand...

Most commissioned officers will be very close to 1LT by the time they get to their first unit due to the length of Flight School.

LT's will fly the normal amount along with the Warrants. LT's will be the Platoon leaders, CPT's will be the Troop Commanders. Both will fly, the Platoon leaders make the schedule after all.

Once you move up in command past the Troop level flying time will most likely decrease but they will still fly, as Renegade13 said, the philosophy has changed.

Flight hours for everyone have decreased due to the drawdowns from deployment. Progression through the different levels take a little longer now depending on the units.

My son sat in HHC for about 3 months before he got in the air and progression from RO3 to RO2 took longer then in the past, he will take over as Platoon leader when he returns from NTC toward the end of the month and things should level out a bit then.

The point is that these LT's and CPT's still fly and get their hours.

That is very good to know. DS has expressed interest but was under the impression he would not get much time flying. Thanks for the education.

So as an aeronautical science major, would it be difficult to branch into something other than aviation? At Riddle they have an Aviation Law minor program, would this allow me to branch to JAG? Even though I wouldn't mind practicing aviation law, I would rather deal with sexual assault cases because I don't think those get enough attention (touchy subject I know)...

Tooler_1024 said:

So as an aeronautical science major, would it be difficult to branch into something other than aviation? At Riddle they have an Aviation Law minor program, would this allow me to branch to JAG? Even though I wouldn't mind practicing aviation law, I would rather deal with sexual assault cases because I don't think those get enough attention (touchy subject I know)...

Click to expand...

Your major will not matter in what you want to branch overall.

There are however branching programs that will allow you to select a branch if you hold one of the branches required majors. Just remember you can request any branch no matter what your major. My son branched Aviation and he was a History Major.

You won't be able to branch JAG right out of ROTC.

If you truly want to be a military lawyer then you might consider skipping ROTC altogether, complete college and Law School and apply for a direct commission into JAG. You might also consider, if you do complete ROTC, going reserves or National Guard and then pursue your Law Degree, pass the Bar and then apply to JAG.

Tooler_1024 said:

So as an aeronautical science major, would it be difficult to branch into something other than aviation? At Riddle they have an Aviation Law minor program, would this allow me to branch to JAG? Even though I wouldn't mind practicing aviation law, I would rather deal with sexual assault cases because I don't think those get enough attention (touchy subject I know)...

Click to expand...

Just because you go to law schools doesn't mean you'll get accepted into JAG. I know a few guys who did ed delay, graduated law school and did not get branched into JAG. It happens.

You are still pretty young but focusing on one thing at a time is key. You want to be an aviator right? Well if the Army branches you aviation they expect you to fly not be a half and half law student/aviator. Law school is not like med school where any program you get into will suffice, you NEED to attend a Tier 1 (maybe 2) program for it to really mean something down the road.

P.S. It doesn't matter your major is, you will be branched according to OML in 95% of cases which means a history or nutrition major could beat you out for an aviation slot.

Aglahad said:

P.S. It doesn't matter your major is, you will be branched according to OML in 95% of cases which means a history or nutrition major could beat you out for an aviation slot.

Click to expand...

My son chose a major based on his desire to fly...he knew OML was key, so he majored in what he considered "easy." Besides, the dean said he already had a job after grad: 2LT.

sheriff3 said:

That is very good to know. DS has expressed interest but was under the impression he would not get much time flying. Thanks for the education.

Click to expand...

One thing to remember, as a commissioned officer he will only be "Hands On" for a while, if he continues past his original obligation he will begin to see more staff time no matter what he branches. I guess the big question for these cadets is what they want to "Have" their hands on until they move to more staff positions.

Oh the joys of being a JO, I have to chuckle when I hear my son tell me..."Getting up flying and training is a great break from planning the Battalion Golf Tournament, Dining Out, Family Days, the Christmas Party, and Hail and Farewells." He told me that serving Shaved Ice to a constant line of 40 screaming kids at Family Day was more work then any day flying.

That brought back sooooo many memories.

Off topic, but on topic.

Jcleppe,

For AF, the wash out rate at UPT is @25%, and the precursor school (IFS} has a wash out rate of 25%. Place those tow equations together and the chances of winging for the AFis 60%. Will not even go down the first hurdle road, selection for UPT.

What is the Army's winging rate out of pilot training?

Just putting it out there for posters that dram of being an Army help pilot based in Hawaii.

Also what is the commitment time owed once winged? AF most will be graced by the hand of God if they can walk at the ten year marker....PCS, promotion and TA(Masters), plus the 25k a year bonus usually equates into 20 years.

Pima,

The Army's wing rate is fairly high, you pretty much have to really mess up not to finish, they work hard to get the flight students through the program. Most that leave do so because of non flight school related issues, though there are those that don't make it, just not a large number, nowhere near 25%, none of the students in my son's class left due to not passing the school.

mom3boys said:

My son chose a major based on his desire to fly...he knew OML was key, so he majored in what he considered "easy." Besides, the dean said he already had a job after grad: 2LT.

Click to expand...

I don't recommend passing up a free education for an "easy" degree with such an uncertain future for the military but to each their own. 20 years AD isn't guaranteed nor is his desire to want to stay in that long.