AFA to AFROTC Semester Exchange

What are your thoughts on this type of program?

You'd see a lot of cadets who wouldn't want to return...

Why?

Waste of time and money.

My 37 1/2 cents worth...

I think it'd be a waste of resources. I can readily understand the value of an "interservice" exchange between the academies: this is an excellent opportunity for some high-achieving cadets/midshipmen to take a semester to see a sister service's methods, environments, and to build budding relationships that just might last over a career.

To take cadets or midshipmen and simply "ship" them off to a civilian college where they would go from a 24/7/365 military leadership laboratory and insert them into an environment that is predominantly undisciplined, filled with a myriad of distractions that aren't germane to the development of career officers in the same fashion as the mission of the various academies (not slamming ROTC, their mission is simply different in scope and methodology) seems to me to be counterproductive to the missions of the academies.

Hmm....did I say that right?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

From what I have heard, there can be a bit of a disconnect between Rotc and academy students. If the point is to bridge this gap, perhaps it would be better to have ROTC members participate in some of the summer training programs with the cadets.

Semesters in sister academies make sense. Academic and military standards are similar. A semester in a mainstream college with rotc, seems to be asking the academy cadets to take a step back. It would not be an equal exchange of experiences. Not all college education is comparable.

Though some cadets may see it as a mini vacation....sleep late, take naps, have something other than chicken to eat, date fellow students (better guy/girl ratio), casual dress, no mandated football games(fall only), come and go as they please, less limitation on Internet acess, better cell phone service, no mandated lights out/closed door.......

I can't see why they would do it at all. There just is not a semester that would be compatible with AFA. As sophomores they are training for field training. As juniors it is being a POC. Most juniors are also concerned about the rated board selection, which is released in FEb/Mar. The spring of that year than it is about getting those selected through the TS clearance and setting up their FC1 physical for the summer at WPAFB.

The biggie for AFROTC cadets is they vie for jobs within the unit, bringing in an AFA cadet takes the job away from a cadet. They need these positions for how the OML system works where 50% of the score is the CoC ranking
~ If USAFA cadet Jones comes over and the CoC gives him flight lead position, than that means AFROTC cadet Smith does not get the opportunity.
~ Likewise if they don't give cadet Jones a job, than what was the purpose?

I know at our DSs det. they have had AFA grads on ED in their unit, but that cadet was more a part of the cadre than a cadet. Their real job was to get their Masters, and part time job was AFROTC.

Finally, even if there is a disconnect between the two, jmpo that is not an issue once they are all AD, which suppprts everyone else's thoughts of it being a waste of resources

I don't see this as being very popular with some ROTC students - ever.

And, by the time they are commissioned and AD, most people (from my limited experience) don't look for that big ring when they meet at UPT or wherever. They become officers in the AF - not officers who went to USAFA or State U's ROTC.

My son was told about an Astro opportunity to spend a semester doing an internship in California. I believe it was something they were still working on. In addition to the internship, he would still have to take classes and participate in a local ROTC program via Stanford. This isn't really an 'exchange' but could be what someone heard about and could interpret as an exchange. This would be a scenario where this could make sense. Otherwise, I agree with previous posters. No benefit to the pure exchange.


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The Academy is moving forward with an AFA to AFROTC exchange program for the Fall of 2015.

I might just put my name in the hat.

Akrogan said:

You'd see a lot of cadets who wouldn't want to return...

Click to expand...

Bingo!

I'll agree with the limited return on investment, unless you are talking about trying to get more civilian style academics, and sending cadets to MIT/Harvard type schools. The ROTC/USAFA divide really only lasts until people figure out that it doesn't matter, which usually doesn't take long. ...and for those who don't realize it, a semester exchange probably isn't going to fix their issue.

I have to agree with most others. I think having some sort of a swap between academy cadets and ROTC for a semester is a waste of time and resources. It might give the ROTC cadet a better perspective of what a 24/7 military really is; compared to their "Part Time" military experience that they are living in ROTC; but I think it does absolutely nothing for the academy cadet. It's not like they would be attending a school and receiving a "Better" education. The academy is one of the best schools in the country. So what is gained? Nothing. The academy cadet spends a semester NOT being a full time military member. They spend a semester with much less discipline. I honestly believe that a semester at a civilian school in an ROTC program would have negative affects on the academy cadet when they returned back to the hill. This is not a slam on ROTC. But both methods of education and commissioning have their growing pains and methods for assimilating into that style. Taking either away from their norm and swapping will cause problems re-assimilating. More problems for the academy cadet coming back than the ROTC going back from the academy.

As has already been mentioned, once both students graduate from either the academy or ROTC, the "DIFFERENCE" and attitude of the new 2nd LT, only lasts a very short time. After that, they are BOTH just plain old O-1 officers going to their career field training. It no longer matters where they went to school or how they received their commission. ROTC can come to the academy, and it's no different than one of their summer training experiences. They play "Full Time" military for a few weeks and go back to college. Sending academy cadets to an ROTC det at a civilian school for a semester is a waste of time, resources, and will negatively impact the cadet when they return to the hill.

flieger83 said:

My 37 1/2 cents worth...

To take cadets or midshipmen and simply "ship" them off to a civilian college where they would go from a 24/7/365 military leadership laboratory and insert them into an environment that is predominantly undisciplined, filled with a myriad of distractions that aren't germane to the development of career officers in the same fashion as the mission of the various academies (not slamming ROTC, their mission is simply different in scope and methodology) seems to me to be counterproductive to the missions of the academies.

Hmm....did I say that right?

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

Click to expand...

Yes, yes you did.

Yes... He did? He did what? "Slam ROTC". I don't think there's a slam here. Different schools and commissioning methods have their own unique methods; which require a unique set of missions and goals for training their students. Obviously, an ROTC program that deals with military mentality for a finite number of hours per week is different than the academy that lives a 24/7 military lifestyle. As such, there's a different approach in goals and how to train their students.

Christcorp said:

Yes... He did? He did what? "Slam ROTC". I don't think there's a slam here. Different schools and commissioning methods have their own unique methods; which require a unique set of missions and goals for training their students. Obviously, an ROTC program that deals with military mentality for a finite number of hours per week is different than the academy that lives a 24/7 military lifestyle. As such, there's a different approach in goals and how to train their students.

Click to expand...

Maybe he was saying "yes you answered the question" since that was the question asked at the end of the post?

OK. Thx.

Sorry Christcorp, yes, he answered the question. Sorry for any misunderstanding. My bad.

Oh, BTW, my better half is an ROTC grad....no way I would slam ROTC (and live to talk about it).

I think Pima brings in a good concern about a USAFA cadet potentially taking a leadership position from a ROTC cadet, and that's pretty similar to the challenges with exchange cadets/midshipmen from the other academies. I don't necessarily know if the costs of this program are enough to justify it, but I'm interested to see how it goes.

I think there are some cadets here (can't speak for the ROTC guys) who could benefit from experiencing a different training atmosphere. There are a lot of things AFROTC does that we don't (more small unit drill for all four years or unit PT for example) and they certainly experience different pressures. For summer 2014 wasn't the non-tech, non-rated field training selection rate less than 20%? I think, depending on the detachment, it could provide some good contrast in experiences to bring back to USAFA. While we do have a "24/7" military experience, we also really only interact with each other for four years. I could see some benefits from understanding the officer training from another commissioning source.

Also, it's not like they're going to receive horrible educations for that semester...there are only four schools involved in the proposed exchange for the fall. I'd argue that an engineering major would probably receive an acceptable education at GA Tech.

Wow I wish they had this before. I would've loved a semester off