National pool size?

I see alot of posts mentioning that there will be 150 appointments off the national pool, but how big is that pool?

Someone will correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it, the national pool is everyone who was nominated but didn't get a principal appointment. That number is in the thousands. However, it really isn't that large because it only contains applicants who are 3Q'd. I am not sure how big that pool is, but I want to say it is in the many hundreds (since you have to take the overall 3Q'd list and subtract those who already received appointments as a principal nominee). Hopefully, a BGO can give us more insight it my assumptions are wrong.

Please correct me too but as I understand it there are about 2200-2500 3 q applicants. MAybe 3000 tops? Of that they will appoint maybe 1300-1400 and those appointments include 300 from NAPS/foundation schools, 565 congressional appointments, 100 presidential noms. So that means about 300-400 come out of the national pool. I think by law they have to appoint the top 150 immediately but can add to the 150 to round out the class? Again, this is just my understanding...

National pool contains all 3Q applicants with noms who did not "win" their slate (slate winners include principal noms).

I hate to be the Debbie Downer here, but from past threads this is what I've taken away from the NWL: If you're on it make sure your plan B in in place.

No way of knowing how large the pool is. It largely consists of 3Q applicants from MOC slates who weren't charged to that MOC and Pres nominees not charged to the President. Not every MOC submits a slate, not every slate has 10 candidates, some MOCs may submit 2 slates in a year, etc.

And the numbers from the national pool are closer to 150. Each year, roughly 300 come from NAPS/Foundation and the Fleet and 100 from Presidential noms. MOCs generally contribute somewhere between 540 and 640 (remember, each MOC can have 5 mids at USNA at one time so some years will have 2, but not all submit slates or have 3Q candidates, and some outside the 535 can submit slates, such as DC delegates, Gov. of PR, etc.). That's roughly 940 - 1040. Then there are appointments from ROTC noms, children of deceased/disabled vets, etc.

Some posters are reporting that class size this year will be 1132. You can do the math.

Would it be a good bet to assume if you haven't heard either way it's the NWL for you? That's what I've been thinking at least

hopefulacademyguy said:

Would it be a good bet to assume if you haven't heard either way it's the NWL for you? That's what I've been thinking at least

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Not necessarily. Here is what has been explained to us regarding the process at this point as our DS is still waiting and has heard nothing to date.

The Academy may have reviewed but not yet determined the final qualification status of every candidate on a particular slate. That could be the case for any number of reasons-one of which is that a candidate on the slate had a medical DQ and is waiting on a determination regarding a waiver request. If so, they don't yet know who "won" that slate. Once the status of the pending item is determined, then Admissions office decides who won, what piles the other candidates go into including TWE, BFE, NWL, NAPS or Foundation.


Usna1985 is this correct?

I have no information on the current status. I would assume that most MOC slates have been reviewed but, for various reasons, probably not all for the reasons stated above.

To clarify nomenclature and summarize - correct me if any of this is wrong:

National Pool = nominated but not slotted to a specific slate (MOC, Pres., etc.). No letter from admissions indicating that a candidate is in the national pool. Per the above ~150 candidates appointed from the National Pool.

Wait List = those that were just beyond the cut off for BFE based upon target class size and assumed acceptance rate and could get an appointment pending lower actual vs assumed acceptance rate. Those on Wait List will get a letter from admissions stating that they are on the Wait List. Number of appointments from Wait List varies year-to-year and could theoretically be zero.

So, has the selection process from the National Pool commenced, or do all other categories need to be completed first? Admissions must surely be close- of course taking into consideration waivers and such, which may be pending.

tak508, I am afraid you are asking a question which no one here has an answer to.

I know what the term triple qualified means, but could someone shed some light on what the standard is to be deemed as such?

That of course is the million dollar question!

Triple qualified by the Admissions Board means a candidate has been found to meet the Academic, Medical and Physical standards to qualify as a candidate for admission. A noination from any available source is also needed to compete for an offer of admission from the Admissions Office.

The Admissions webpage sets out some of the basic standards that have to be met, there is a list of DQ'ing conditions over at DodMerb site and the CFA is fairly clear as a pass no pass and has established minimums required to "pass". Minimums in any area may not be enough to make someone "competitive" for an offer even though they passed. Don't strive for minimums.

What is hard to figure out is the academic portion because there are formulas and algorithims the Academy uses to caclulate a Whole Candidate Score for each applicant. If they don't meet whatever threshold is set, they don't make it to that particular "Q". They could still be in the running for NAPS or Foundation Scholarship though.

A candidate could be triple Q and still not have a WCS high enough to garner an offer of appoinment after all the ranking and stacking is done.

Only Admissions Board knows how scores are calculated and what each candidate's score is. I don't think anyone ever finds out what their score is or was-even after admittance.

Some of the above is partially correct.

Triple Qualified = Scholastically, Medically, and Physically Qualified.
Fully Qualified = Triple Qualified + Nomination (at least one)

The Admissions Board ONLY determines the Scholastic Qualification. Scholastic encompasses the Whole Person Concept/Assessment -- from academics, sports, ECAs, etc. While there is a Whole Person Multiple, this is an entering argument into the determination of scholastic qualification. Ultimately, the Admissions Board, as a whole, determines whether the candidate is qualified irregardless of the WPM calculation (therefore, it is subjective). There isn't a checklist, that if a candidate does X,Y, and Z, they are found to be scholastically qualified, it is simply the Admission Board's "feel" of the candidate. The WPM calculation becomes more of a factor when offering appointments (which is the follow on process for candidates who are fully qualified).

Medical Qualification is done by DODMERB and the Service Academy, using the Department of Defense and Department of the Navy medical standards. If a candidate meets all the standards, they are qualified. If they do not meet all the standards, then they are not qualified and in some circumstances, waiverable. Candidates MIGHT be considered for a waiver depending on how competitive they are (this is not normally known to a candidate unless the waiver process is initiated). The ultimate decision to grant a medical waiver is determined by the Superintendent with the advice and recommendations of the medical officer and Bureau of Navy Medicine. Basically, it comes down to a risk decision that the Superintendent makes.

Physical Qualification is determined by the CFA. If the candidate passes, they are qualified. Consequently, if they fail, they are not qualified. Candidates may attempt the CFA multiple times to better their score, whether qualified or not qualified, until the application window closes (Jan 31, this year). The minimum scores to "pass" are not published, but, generally most candidates have a good idea on whether they passed or not and can ask their BGO or Admissions about their physical qualification status. Candidates in decent physical shape normally have no issues passing/qualifying.

The Scholastic Qualification is normally the one "unknown" in the process. The Medical Qualification can sometimes be difficult for candidates who have had injuries/illnesses currently or in the past. The Physical Qualification, of all three, is the most straightforward, even though the minimum scores for each element aren't published.

Thanks for that, I was a little hazy on the Scholastic portion but believe I have a fairly firm grasp on the concept now.

Does anybody know if the "mandatory" 150 slots from the NWL have been determined?

dznavy19 said:

Does anybody know if the "mandatory" 150 slots from the NWL have been determined?

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What is the general feel on these appointments? Did they already happened, do they happen at a slow trickle? What happened last year? I couldn't find anyone added to the appointment list that thought they came from NWL, but guessing they didn't know.

I would think not many appointments from NWL are reported here since there are so few appointments and not a huge amt of applicants actually are on this forum. As of last week though there were still slates not figured out according to many posters...so who knows

usnadad10 said:

I see alot of posts mentioning that there will be 150 appointments off the national pool, but how big is that pool?

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This was my understanding from memory which I saw in the SA brochures somewhere ;

1. about 16,000+ students apply for USNA, every year in average

2. about 7,000+ or so completes the application. (The others drop or not complete the app.)

3. out of # 2, about 5,000+ gets nominations.

4. out of #3, 2,200+ gets nominations and are 3Qed. (maybe the current size of NWL can be estimated from this? which means that after the initial 500 appointment in Jan and others, the NWL size would be around 1100+ or so....which translates, if you look at #5, around 450 can be pulled off from NWL, the ratio of NWL receiving appointments would equal to "450 divided by 1100"=40.90% or so.)

5. out of # 4, 1,650+ or so gets appointed (This includes, 535 MOC & Senators' vacancy winners + 100 Presidential + 200 LOAs & Recruited Athletes + 75 actives + 75 reserves + 20 ROTC + 200 preps+ 150 top NWL + 300 additional NWL appointees (3:1 ratio)= 1655)

6. only 1,250 or so accepts the appointments.

Please feel free to correct the numbers if you have more accurate information .