What are my chances?

I know that a ton of these pop up and that the responses aren't the set in stone truth, but maybe this will help me gauge where I may stand or at least what I need to improve upon.
I'm a senior at a public high school who has applied to USMA and has nomination interviews scheduled. I currently am taking 4 AP classes as well as an engineering class. My Unweighted GPA is 3.35 (I really bombed my freshman year because I thought I would enlist and that I wouldn't need to do well in school) and my class rank puts me in the 2nd quintile. I got a 29 on my ACT and I'm hoping for a better score once I get the results for the October test. I am a four year varsity wrestler and and a current team captain. I am also a member of our school's Service Leadership Club and have participated in numerous service programs throughout my local community. I live in a pretty competitive area though I am confident that I will receive a nomination. Is it likely that I will be selected from a national pool? My girlfriend currently attends West Point (she is not the reason why I want to go there) and that is how she received appointment. What should I do to distinguish myself further? should I make a school club? There's just quite a bit swimming through my head and I would like to find out where I stand. Thanks!

I don't know how much weight this carries but I was a foreign exchange student and I am also a member of the Civil Air Patrol, though I just joined and only recently received my first promotion.

You have a 3.35 and (you say)

Tiger2016 said:

I live in a pretty competitive area though I am confident that I will receive a nomination.

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. Really? From a competitive area?

What would make you so confident? Your senior year entrance into CAP?

Your wrestling should help and I suppose this service club is also in your favor. The 29 ACT is NOT.

fencersmother said:

Your wrestling should help and I suppose this service club is also in your favor. The 29 ACT is NOT.

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The average ACT scores for the class of 2018 was 28 English 28 Math 27 Science and 28 Reading.

I am in Ohio's 2nd district. I did see that the average ACT score for USMA is 29. I know that I should get scores above the average, but would the 29 really hold me back that much in the national pool? My girlfriend has told me that she's met cadets who had gotten in with 26's. I also feel confident that I will receive a nomination as I interview well, have improved my grades drastically, have worked 80 hours weeks between three jobs, as well as having accomplished a variety of other goals.

Well keep us posted on your progress, please. For me its always interesting to hear about the progress. The three hot areas for competition are Southern California, North Texas, and mid-eastern coast. Because of the competition, there're some stunning applicants who receive appointments.

Push Hard, Press Forward

Tiger2016 said:

My girlfriend has told me that she's met cadets who had gotten in with 26's

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Does she understand the charging process for appointments...Presidential, Sec. of Defense, MOC and ROTC ? Did she ask if they were a Prepster?

Tiger2016 said:

I also feel confident that I will receive a nomination as I interview well,

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I have to ask how did you come to the decision that you interview well? Not trying to flame at all, just trying to get your opinion.

This was what screamed out to me in your original post that nobody picked up on:

Tiger2016 said:

my class rank puts me in the 2nd quintile.

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A quintile means by definition:
Any of five equal groups which a population can be divided.
If that definition is true, than Tiger is ranked somewhere between 21% to 39% class rank.

The fact you are working 80 hours will help because it show you can juggle academics and outside life.
However, I have to throw up a red flag here. That means you are working @25.5 hrs weekly for each of your 3 jobs. Assume you get home from school at 2, report to work at 3, you will get off from work at 11 for an 8 hr shift. Do this 5 days a week and you are at 40. That means on Sat and Sunday to make that 80 hr work week, you have to work 20 hrs each day.
~ Most states have minor working laws, in other words if you are under 18, you can't work past 10 pm at night.

Basically you are saying you work almost 12 hrs a day 7 days a week on top of attending school. Add in 8 hours for school and that means Monday through Friday you live on 4 hours of sleep due to your school and work schedule.
~ Financially it means you are pulling in 30K a yr at min. wage at the ripe old age of what? 17
Sorry, but I have a very hard problem believing that you work 80 hrs a week. Even if you are doing it to help the family financially, than it begs the question how going off to an SA next year if they rely on your paycheck to meet the family's needs.
~ If it is not for financial needs, and I have a problem as a parent biting off that the folks agree to you working until 10 or 11 every night and 20 hrs a day on the weekend.

Do you really want to stick with that 80 hr a week number, or would you like to revise it? Even if we are talking summer job and no school. That still works out to 11.5 hrs a day 7 days a week.
~ That does not include a mandated by law break of 1 hour, nor the commute to work. Work at 1 job for 8 hrs and than go to a 2nd, it means more likely that you are out of your home for 13 hrs a day, 7 days a week during the summer.

Yes, candidates get in every year with below average scores. That should be a good indication that many have above average scores. Remember, there is no average cadet, only an average profile. That profile doesn't give you the picture of the average QNS either.

If 225 out of 1200 come from the prep school where they had to be academically disqualified to gain admission (ie, likely low to well below average scores), that is already 1/6th of the class. Throw in some of the recruited athletes, some of the under represented minorities, and weak districts, there are about another 1/6th+ that could have below average but qualifying scores.

If you expect to make the national waiting list (top 150 that don't win a district), you'll need to be on the other end of the spectrum (top 1/6th) which means above 700s, above 32s.

If you hope to come in with average scores in an average or competitive district, you better have something else that is outstanding - excellent leadership, valedictorian of a larger school, division I caliber athlete (recruited), under represented minority, principal nomination, significant college experience and GPA, etc.

Pima, I'm very sorry about the confusion. I was only stating that I have worked 80 hour weeks in the past, particularity over the summer. I was no longer a minor at the time and despite my parents objections it was my decision. During this time I was able to balance work, college test prep classes, physical training, and the Civil Air Patrol. Once school started I was resigned from one of my jobs and now work 24 hours a week. I'm sorry for the confusion, I was only trying to say that I had a very difficult schedule in the summer and I was successfully able to manage it.
Yes I am ranked somewhere between 21%-39%

845Something, I do appreciate those statistics. I will continue to push hard and make myself a more competitive candidate.

I'm stating the obvious here but there IS a sticky at the top of this USMA forum page titled "What Are My Chances?" and it was started back in 2010. If you do your homework, many of the questions and concerns associated with "your chances" are addressed by many who have been around this game for a long time. When my DS first expressed interest into WP, this was one of the first places he came...and then I came....to ask the same things. What he learned was invaluable and that's an understatement. NO ONE is going to chance you. They will provide counsel and advice to make you a better prepared applicant but save them some of the work you need to do and you'll take take a lot of the anxiety and angst out of it.

When DS got his appointment to WP, he said he didn't think he could have done it without a lot of the insight he found here. Half of all knowledge is simply knowing where to find it. You found some of it, heed their advice and do your homework.

I wish you well in your pursuit.

I'm stating the obvious here but there IS a sticky at the top of this USMA forum page titled "What Are My Chances?" and it was started back in 2010. Have you gone through it? If you do your homework, many of the questions and concerns associated with "your chances" are addressed by many who have been around this game for a long time. When my DS first expressed interest into WP, this was one of the first places he came...and then I came....to ask the same things. What he learned was invaluable and that's an understatement. NO ONE is going to chance you. They will provide counsel and advice to make you a better prepared applicant but save them some of the work you need to do and you'll take take a lot of the anxiety and angst out of it.

When DS got his appointment to WP, he said he didn't think he could have done it without a lot of the insight he found here. Half of all knowledge is simply knowing where to find it. You found some of it, heed their advice and do your homework.

I wish you well in your pursuit.

Tiger 2016,

I have seen many candidates/young people in the situation similiar to you - having a goal and hoping. When applying to SAs being lucky is better than being good. But most grown ups will tell you that we don't get lucky often.

Well, I will chance you as to if you are lucky you will get an appointment. You might even be determined to be fully qualified. But what kind of competition you will face in Congressional district will determine the outcome. With your numbers, not likely to get selected from the National Waiting List.

But more important question is what are you going to do if you don't get in this year. I think if you improve your ACT/SAT and do really good on your college classes, your chances will be much more higher. I have worked with many qualified not select candidates. Most of them tell me they will reapply, but they don't.

Good luck.

Also, remember that if you come in with "below average" stats, unless you make some truly drastic changes to study habits, athletics, work ethic - what ever you have that is "below average" - these things are likely to stay below average at USMA (or any of the SAs).

So, you've worked an 80 hour week, during the summer, and... well, and didn't bother to read the stickies... and are in CAP. That second 21-39% is not in your favor.