Take Honors courses when you plan to reapply?

Would it be better to take honors courses in your freshman year of college if you plan to reapply to USNA or just stick with the regular courses?

It is hard to answer this kind of question without any context. If you can handle the subject, you should take the honors course. If you aren't getting a "B/B+" or above in the regular course equivalent, I wouldn't recommend moving up.

I joined the Honors College at my school. The honors class I had to take was ridiculously hard (harder than calc 3 and diffy q!). Ended up getting a C... Haven't heard back from USNA yet but I'd say from my experience it is not worth it.

My DS joined the Honors College, knowing that those courses would be more work and be graded harder. It turned out worth it for him. His grades were not perfect, but he said the classes were better. Chemistry is a 5 hour course in honors. Writing is more interesting (he did not have to take Freshman Comp. in the honors program) Generally speaking at his school, you get better teachers and have small classes with lots of discussion. I think you just have to look at the individual school's program to decide. DS knew he would reapply to USNA and had to think about not getting in a second time. If that had been the case he wanted to be in the Honors College all 4 years, so that's where he started.

Mom529 said:

My DS joined the Honors College, knowing that those courses would be more work and be graded harder. It turned out worth it for him. His grades were not perfect, but he said the classes were better. Chemistry is a 5 hour course in honors. Writing is more interesting (he did not have to take Freshman Comp. in the honors program) Generally speaking at his school, you get better teachers and have small classes with lots of discussion. I think you just have to look at the individual school's program to decide. DS knew he would reapply to USNA and had to think about not getting in a second time. If that had been the case he wanted to be in the Honors College all 4 years, so that's where he started.

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I have thought about it some more, and have come to the conclusion that I don't think it's honors or no honors as much as it is outside class involvement. I think that's what really made the difference in DS's case.

Also depends on the reason for the TWE. Grades/classes wouldn't make up for other deficiencies.

And that is the problem -- no one will provide specifics for the TWE, so do you assume you have to improve across the board? They say to take classes similar to Plebe year, but since most of the candidates receiving TWEs already took AP/IB/college level courses covering the plebe year curriculum, are you supposed to RETAKE in college, get excellent scores, reapply and hopefully get a 2nd time appointment? They state many Plebe actually validate out of 1st year classes, so this only complicates the question of what classes to take in order to get in 2nd time around. If anyone who got in 2nd time around could elaborate on what their "outside class involvement" was (ROTC, sports, comm. service, clubs, etc.) it would be helpful -- also how can one get into leadership positions their freshman year when so many leadership roles are determined at end of previous school year?

eagle16 said:

And that is the problem -- no one will provide specifics for the TWE, so do you assume you have to improve across the board? They say to take classes similar to Plebe year, but since most of the candidates receiving TWEs already took AP/IB/college level courses covering the plebe year curriculum, are you supposed to RETAKE in college, get excellent scores, reapply and hopefully get a 2nd time appointment? They state many Plebe actually validate out of 1st year classes, so this only complicates the question of what classes to take in order to get in 2nd time around. If anyone who got in 2nd time around could elaborate on what their "outside class involvement" was (ROTC, sports, comm. service, clubs, etc.) it would be helpful -- also how can one get into leadership positions their freshman year when so many leadership roles are determined at end of previous school year?

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Going to see if this helps. Last year, a half dozen admitted candidates were medically DQ'd at the last minute and were put on a special program where they needed to go to civilian college for year. They were directed to take courses that mirror Plebe year exactly as you have suggested the TWE states. The caveat was this; IF they had already taken AP level class in that subject in high school or validated it for the college they were going to, the expectation was to take the next level course up! NOT retake the class!

Outside class involvement...can be intramural or club sports, volunteer organizations or civic ones. Most college campuses these days have literally hundreds of these types of things that students can get involved in, but you need to find them. It's not the quantity, it's the quality... one sport, one organization.

Thank you! This is what i assumed, that you would mirror SOPHOMORE year classes. But IF you are admitted 2nd time, can you validate out of 2 years of classes? That seems unlikely.....

eagle16 said:

And that is the problem -- no one will provide specifics for the TWE, so do you assume you have to improve across the board? They say to take classes similar to Plebe year, but since most of the candidates receiving TWEs already took AP/IB/college level courses covering the plebe year curriculum, are you supposed to RETAKE in college, get excellent scores, reapply and hopefully get a 2nd time appointment? They state many Plebe actually validate out of 1st year classes, so this only complicates the question of what classes to take in order to get in 2nd time around. If anyone who got in 2nd time around could elaborate on what their "outside class involvement" was (ROTC, sports, comm. service, clubs, etc.) it would be helpful -- also how can one get into leadership positions their freshman year when so many leadership roles are determined at end of previous school year?

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I will tell you what my DS did, but every single application will have so many different aspects that you can never compare like activities from one candidate to another. He knew when he arrived at State University that he was reapplying (wait-listed the year before) so he looked at opportunities to help that application. He did honors coursework mirroring plebe year except for physics because he wasn't allowed to take it. He majored in engineering, so he went ahead and took those freshman courses as well. In the first semester he picked up his Scuba certification, pledged a Christian fraternity, joined the Chemical Engineering society, joined a church group where he is a musician, joined the university Fencing Team, and the biggest thing, I think, was he became a Volunteer Firefighter which required over 100 hours of coursework two nights a week. He was being interviewed to be on the student judiciary committee this spring, but now he won't need that. Every case is different. He chose not to do NROTC because he was bound and determined to go to USNA. He was a really busy boy. Like a previous post said, when you go to orientation they will tell you about everything there is to get involved in. Our whole family has agreed that this year's college experience was the best thing that could ever have happened. He has college study skills, has new accomplishments, and has already gone through saying goodbye to his family. He will approach plebe year a much changed man, as opposed to if he had gone out of high school. It was the best blessing EVER!

WOW! Very Impressive! That has been another concern -- that amount of time needed for NROTC makes it difficult to get involved with other activities. Anyone with NROTC experience who can provide info about the amount of time each week required, in addition to the Naval Science course you have to take?

WOW!! I hope my DS's first year at college works out that well. We've wondered whether the time spent at ROTC would be better spent in other EC's if you are truly going to reapply to USNA. Anyone know how much time is involved with NROTC, not including the Naval Science courses you have to take?

eagle16 said:

Thank you! This is what i assumed, that you would mirror SOPHOMORE year classes. But IF you are admitted 2nd time, can you validate out of 2 years of classes? That seems unlikely.....

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I'm glad this helped a bit...but...not exactly. You can do to the USNA web site on all the particulars of validating classes...but he's not going to validate 2 years for sure. It outlines it very well.

Agree with Sydney you might validate 2 years of math or Chem and physics, but you won't validate many of the other classes, because you can't. If you do validate a ton of classes it just moves you along and opens up options to VGEP or double major or minor. My room mate from USNA still holds the record for validation, trust me she had plenty of classes to take. She had a minor and VGEP. I wouldn't worry so much about the validation piece. USNA works this all out every year. In a few weeks give a call to your admissions counselor to discuss why a TWE. For some it is purely a numbers game. Only so many Noms exist and it's a highly qualified area with a large amount of candidates. For others there could be a weakness. And agree with the examples given on how to get involved at the post high school level and show leadership.

NROTC does take a lot of time, but also remember that NROTC has leadership opportunities, volunteer chances, etc. So even though it might be consuming, lots of things can stand alone while done under the umbrella of ROTC. But that is a personal decision and one a student must consider.

If I were to take a swag at NROTC time requirements as a FRESHMAN I would say 10-13 hours a week. One could have a leadership position as Hoops said but as a freshman it's probably not too far up the food chain.

3 hours Naval Science
3-4 hours PT
2.5 - 3 hours lab
2-3 hours other (eg. stadium cleanup)

For what it's worth, DD said she heard a plebe this year validated 56 or 57 credits after spending one year in college. He is also in varsity and has taken two classes in his major already...

Would the parents or the plebe please come forward...