excellent info re West Point & process

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WayneH

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This link is an EXCELLENT source of information regarding West Point from qualifications, academics, program descriptions, admissions, nominations, and such...all info was attributed to "Courtesy of the United States Military Academy (West Point)" and all of it is available from many other and various sources.

I however have not found all of this info in one easily accessed place and especially not all in ONE article such as this. Kind of a "one-stop-shopping" source of great information. In reading through the info, about the only item that struck me as incorrect or questionable was the part explaining the Summer Leaders Seminar which the article called "Invitational Academic Workshop (IAW)" which I believe was the old name of it. The info offered was fairly accurate as far as I could tell though.

Perhaps a moderator can make use of the link or possible copy and paste into a post or document that could be posted to this forum as a "sticky" so it is a readily available source of info at the beginning of the forum

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyjoin/a/armymilacademy.htm
 
A lot of the information is inaccurate as it is very outdated.

One thing to remember about West Point - it's always changing. It is a very fluid environment responsible for training future officers to fight in two current wars and future wars. The only constant thing about West Point is change.

The most up to date and complete accurate information is found here:
http://admissions.usma.edu/
 
JAM,
I must disagree with you, at least in principle.

What little information in the link was outdated, it was of very little consequence when taken in the entire context.

This info is good because it lists very basic information that covers almost every aspect of what is involved with applying to WP from beginning to end.
It is not to be taken as gospil but a convienient and quick resource for somebody to read when they are asking themselves "what is West Point? and Do I want to try to go there?"

To say this info is outdated is not necessarily correct. The info in "Absolutely American" is outdated, so should we no longer recommend people read that?

If you can confirm incorrect or out of date info, please by all means, update the info. I still say this info would be a great initial "read" for any new person to the forum to give them a better understanding of the WP process and experience WITHOUT having to post & read 200 questions and go to several different websites to forage and plow through much more info than they may need...not when a brief article could be made available that would answer many of those initial questions.

This (and others) forum is here to provide usefull and easily accessible information and when one has the chance to pin some something up to the wall for easy access rather than making them search for it, that makes all the more sense.

Just my thoughts...do what you want with the info.
 
I read the article and it's obvious it hasn't been updated in many years.
I found incorrect/outdated information on every page. I could go through it and point it all out for you but that would take some time.
When I have time I will point out a few inconsistencies.

What is on that website that is not found on the admissions page?

Absolutely American has a date attached to it. When one looks at an undate webpage they may think the information is correct.
 
In fairness, that page includes as it's first hyperlink: "PreCandidate Questionnaire" and that directs you to the West Point main admissions page.
 
Just_A_Mom said:
I read the article and it's obvious it hasn't been updated in many years.
I found incorrect/outdated information on every page. I could go through it and point it all out for you but that would take some time.
When I have time I will point out a few inconsistencies.

What is on that website that is not found on the admissions page?

Absolutely American has a date attached to it. When one looks at an undate webpage they may think the information is correct.
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Hey, I have a great idea. Since you refuse to acknowledge any value to the article, how about you write up a similar one of your own that covers the wide spectrum of the basic process of WP in a consise and readable format.

Please, no need to point out to me the inconsistancies you find as I am well aware of most of them. My post and the link to the article was never intended to be an "official" source of info but simply an easily accessible source that a new forum member could go to for those initial WP questions BEFORE they go through the process of asking a million questions through posts to the forum. One would think that you would welcome the chance to have forum members "more informed".
I am sure that your similar article / post of information will be completely up to date and much more accurate. I am sure that there are many current & especially future forum members that would love to see a similar source of information such as this. I look forward to yours.
 
No need to get snotty WayneH. I like to provide the most accurate information I can to candidates which is why www.USMA.edu is the best source. The site has lots of information about every aspect of the academy, candidates just have to spend some time looking at each link.

I looked through the article quickly and it does give an okay overview of life at USMA but I wouldn't call it an excellent source. Just doing a quick look I found the following things that have changed.

You must also complete the Physical Aptitude Examination, which consists of five events: pull-ups for men or flexed-arm hang for women; a basketball throw from the kneeling position; the standing long jump; a 300-yard shuttle run; and a two-minute period of push-ups. You are permitted just one examination, and you should practice the five events prior to taking the examination.
Click to expand...
This is now called the candidate fitness assessment (CFA). They no longer do the standing long jump, it is a one mile run instead.

Academic Program:Currently 21 optional majors are offered along with 24 fields of study.
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Currently 42 majors are offered to cadets.

At the end of your second year you decide on a major or field of study and select the appropriate elective courses.
Click to expand...
At the beginning of the second academic year is when cadets have to declare a major.

You are instructed in fundamental military tactics and leadership during a 2-week intercession period between the first and second semester each year.
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They no longer do this. This training is spread out over the academic year.

Cadet Field Training is conducted during your second summer at
West Point. Eight weeks of field training is given at Camp Buckner, various locations throughout the West Point military Reservation, and at Fort Knox, Kentucky…
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CFT during second summer is four weeks. The other part of the field training was moved to the fourth summer.

West Point conducts the Invitational Academic Workshop (IAW) for high school juniors going into their senior year.
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Now called Summer Leaders Seminar (SLS).

There may be more, but those are the ones that I saw right away.
 
WAMom68 said:
No need to get snotty WayneH. I like to provide the most accurate information I can to candidates which is why www.USMA.edu is the best source. The site has lots of information about every aspect of the academy, candidates just have to spend some time looking at each link.

I looked through the article quickly and it does give an okay overview of life at USMA but I wouldn't call it an excellent source. Just doing a quick look I found the following things that have changed.


This is now called the candidate fitness assessment (CFA). They no longer do the standing long jump, it is a one mile run instead.


Currently 42 majors are offered to cadets.


At the beginning of the second academic year is when cadets have to declare a major.


They no longer do this. This training is spread out over the academic year.


CFT during second summer is four weeks. The other part of the field training was moved to the fourth summer.


Now called Summer Leaders Seminar (SLS).

There may be more, but those are the ones that I saw right away.
Click to expand...


JAM, (oops I thought I was talking to JAM)

WAMom68, I assume that JAM can handle herself in a conversation.
And I really dont think that after your response we need to be debating "snotty" do we?
In response to you however...1st, as I said before, there is no need to dazzle us by pointing out the out of date info with all of the corrected information.

You may want to re-read my posts for what was actually said and intended and consider a more efficient use of your time other than trashing me or my post for such trivial reasons. It is counter productive. In the time you and JAM have spent "circling the wagons" you could have copy & pasted the info from the article (since you did agree it was "okay") and edited the portions you felt needed corrected or updated, then posted your new version complete with your stamp of approval on it.

Sheesh, I get the impression that my post made some feel like an intrusion into their territory.
 
It would seem that the article is as accurate as the Service Academy Forums at times. Perhaps it gives a decent first taste, although it is not entirely correct, neither is everything we put on here. While West Point may be "always changing" in many ways it is very much the same (all those traditions...). What am I saying? I'm saying the website may have some value. Wayne did concede in the original post that it may not be completely accurate. Obviously the most accurate source for information on West Point is West Point's website, and quite frequently, as is true for many government websites, it's not always easy to find all of the information there.


Territory is highly protected sometimes Wayne.
 
LineInTheSand said:
It would seem that the article is as accurate as the Service Academy Forums at times. Perhaps it gives a decent first taste, although it is not entirely correct, neither is everything we put on here. While West Point may be "always changing" in many ways it is very much the same (all those traditions...). What am I saying? I'm saying the website may have some value. Wayne did concede in the original post that it may not be completely accurate. Obviously the most accurate source for information on West Point is West Point's website, and quite frequently, as is true for many government websites, it's not always easy to find all of the information there.


Territory is highly protected sometimes Wayne.
Click to expand...

hahaha, thanks LITS, I can see that now...like stepping into a hornets nest!
I guess I will go back to only READING the forum and stay out of the "territorial waters"
 
WayneH said:
This link is an EXCELLENT source of information regarding West Point from qualifications, academics, program descriptions, admissions, nominations, and such...all info was attributed to "Courtesy of the United States Military Academy (West Point)" and all of it is available from many other and various sources.

I however have not found all of this info in one easily accessed place and especially not all in ONE article such as this. Kind of a "one-stop-shopping" source of great information. In reading through the info, about the only item that struck me as incorrect or questionable was the part explaining the Summer Leaders Seminar which the article called "Invitational Academic Workshop (IAW)" which I believe was the old name of it. The info offered was fairly accurate as far as I could tell though.

Perhaps a moderator can make use of the link or possible copy and paste into a post or document that could be posted to this forum as a "sticky" so it is a readily available source of info at the beginning of the forum

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/armyjoin/a/armymilacademy.htm
Click to expand...

This does seem to be a pretty good overview of USMA which is accurate enough to give a good snapshot for a prospective who is looking at USMA for the first time. There may be a few inaccuracies but nothing of any substance, and certainly nothing that essentially would cause a kid to feel like they got bad gouge on the day they show up ("Wait- I'm only at Camp Buckner for 4 weeks my 3rd class summer, not 8? That's it- I'm outta here"). Thanks for pointing it out.
 
I am not attempting to fight JAM’s battle and this isn’t about “territory” either.
I was only trying to correct some of the inaccuracies in the article you posted…isn’t that what you suggested here:
WayneH said:
If you can confirm incorrect or out of date info, please by all means, update the info.
Click to expand...

If you go back and read JAM’s two posts in this thread, they are rational and not hostile.You were the first to get your back up which is why I used the term snotty.

I stated in my post that I thought this was an okay article, but I don’t agree with you that this is an excellent article. My definition of “excellent” must be different than yours. So if you can’t handle disagreeing with people in a friendly manner than please do not respond to any of my posts.

LITS – I didn’t know you had any knowledge, experience, or interest in West Point but you seem to always have something to say in this forum. Very interesting….maybe you are regretting USCGA and wishing you had applied to USMA.:wink:
 
WAMom68 said:
I am not attempting to fight JAM’s battle and this isn’t about “territory” either.
I was only trying to correct some of the inaccuracies in the article you posted…isn’t that what you suggested here:


If you go back and read JAM’s two posts in this thread, they are rational and not hostile.You were the first to get your back up which is why I used the term snotty.

I stated in my post that I thought this was an okay article, but I don’t agree with you that this is an excellent article. My definition of “excellent” must be different than yours. So if you can’t handle disagreeing with people in a friendly manner than please do not respond to any of my posts.

LITS – I didn’t know you had any knowledge, experience, or interest in West Point but you seem to always have something to say in this forum. Very interesting….maybe you are regretting USCGA and wishing you had applied to USMA.:wink:
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okay, based on your reply it looks like I am going to have to respond.

I said to "update the info" not tear apart my post. The "updates" given so far do nothing to update the "okay" article in question. Three days or two months from now nobody in the world besides you and me will know about or remember the article we are talking about. THAT is why I have recommended you and/or JAM (or anybody else for that matter) make the needed corrections to an article that provides the basic framework for a concise "read" to beginning forum members. It would not take much time to edit the info and make it available to the forum, after all, between JAM & you this forum has been blessed with over 3000 posts, I really do not think it would be a stretch to see either or both of you take on this huge task of reviewing and editing a good article with some out of date info that needs updating.

Territory? Come on....24/7 if anybody posts on this forum it is almost chisled in stone they will be answered by one of a select very few "moms". And this applies to ongoing conversations as well...always a correction, comment, or point of view. I am not talking about a moderator either. Just other forum member / parent. Ummm, 2400 posts? Tell me there isnt some kind of "territory" issue in place.

Definition of "excellent"....hmmm, this brings back memories of Bill Clinton (I refuse to call him "President" because I never did consider him anything besides *trash that got lucky) playing that same debating game with a Grand Jury while he lied to the entire country.

Then the attack comes..."So if you can’t handle disagreeing with people in a friendly manner than please do not respond to any of my posts"
CHECK THE ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR and figure it out.

Last but not least, how does this entire conversation warrant a personal attack on LITS?

I believe there are a few people on this forum with entirely too much time on their hands. LITS and Maximus, you better watch out cause the hornets are beginning to swarm.
 
"LITS – I didn’t know you had any knowledge, experience, or interest in West Point but you seem to always have something to say in this forum. Very interesting….maybe you are regretting USCGA and wishing you had applied to USMA.:wink:[/QUOTE]"

I have been looking at these posts on this thread, and it saddens me a bit. I'm am not here to take sides or anything, but some of these posts are downright mean. I wish we could all just respect each others posts and threads(as long as they're are sensible, rational, and appropriate).

WaMom68-truly, with no disrespect whatsoever intended, I thought this comment toward LITS was quite inappropriate. All I'm hoping for is that we can all get along and be respectful towards one another.( I am greatly sorry if this has offended anybody, I had absolutely no intention to do that).

Very sincerely and respectfully, USMAalltheway
 
WayneH said:
okay, based on your reply it looks like I am going to have to respond.

I said to "update the info" not tear apart my post. The "updates" given so far do nothing to update the "okay" article in question. Three days or two months from now nobody in the world besides you and me will know about or remember the article we are talking about. THAT is why I have recommended you and/or JAM (or anybody else for that matter) make the needed corrections to an article that provides the basic framework for a concise "read" to beginning forum members. It would not take much time to edit the info and make it available to the forum, after all, between JAM & you this forum has been blessed with over 3000 posts, I really do not think it would be a stretch to see either or both of you take on this huge task of reviewing and editing a good article with some out of date info that needs updating.
Click to expand...

First, how did I "tear apart your post"? All I did was point out a few of the inaccuracies in the article you attached...did you write the article...is that why you are getting so upset about this?

Second, why would I want to fix this article and post it when all the correct information is already on USMA.edu?

WayneH said:
Territory? Come on....24/7 if anybody posts on this forum it is almost chisled in stone they will be answered by one of a select very few "moms". And this applies to ongoing conversations as well...always a correction, comment, or point of view. I am not talking about a moderator either. Just other forum member / parent. Ummm, 2400 posts? Tell me there isnt some kind of "territory" issue in place.
Click to expand...
FYI, I was a moderator for about 2 years on this site but I quit recently. One of the reason is because I was tired of having to "play nice" with people like you who attack for no reason. I don't think of the USMA forum as my territory, but until now I have felt more comfortable in this forum so I have posted here the most. I don't feel comfortable going into the USAFA, USNA, USCGA, or USMMA forums and giving advice or opinions on academies I am not familiar with.

WayneH said:
Definition of "excellent"....hmmm, this brings back memories of Bill Clinton (I refuse to call him "President" because I never did consider him anything besides *trash that got lucky) playing that same debating game with a Grand Jury while he lied to the entire country.
Click to expand...
How does your opinion of former Pres. Clinton apply to this post at all?

WayneH said:
Then the attack comes..."So if you can’t handle disagreeing with people in a friendly manner than please do not respond to any of my posts"
CHECK THE ATTITUDE AT THE DOOR and figure it out.
Click to expand...
Why should I check my attitude? As I said before JAM and I posted our opinions of the article, you are the one that turned it into a personal attack. I am allowed to state my opinion here just as you are. I was pointing out that if you don't like my opinion and only want to attack me than I don't want to read it.

WayneH said:
Last but not least, how does this entire conversation warrant a personal attack on LITS?
Click to expand...
If I joke that maybe LITS is hanging out in the USMA forum because he is an Army wannabe...that is a personal attack? Wow, you must have some thin skin. :rolleyes:

WayneH said:
I believe there are a few people on this forum with entirely too much time on their hands. LITS and Maximus, you better watch out cause the hornets are beginning to swarm.
Click to expand...
What I do with my own time is my own business. If I want to spend 24/7 on the internet...what do you care?
 
I feel no need to be in the Army, and no wish to have been an alum of West Point. I am proud of my service (that being the U.S. Coast Guard) and my alma mater (that being the U.S. Coast Guard Academy).

That being said, I do like the Army, and I have a few West Point grad friends. On top of that, I have Air Force friends, Marine Corps friends, and Navy friends.

I was not aware however WAmom that you attended West Point. :wink: I saw CGA win more football games....and they're DIII.
 
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