KP least competitive service academy?

I've heard that KP is the easiest academy to get into because not many people have heard of it; especially the land locked states. Is this true or not?

SamAca10 said:

I've heard that KP is the easiest academy to get into because not many people have heard of it; especially the land locked states. Is this true or not?

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If you look at the acceptance rates for all the academies, they all group between 14-18% (I think this is for people who complete their applications but I could be wrong). More people may know about the other academies so they have more apply but KP only takes a little under 300/year.

no academy is easy to get into. and it might be true that we're the easiest to get into (pure speculation) however, we're the hardest to graduate from. i can pretty much promise that. with the blend of the regiment as well as exceptionally difficult academics, we lose a lot of people.
my last started with around 270-280 people, i'm pretty sure we're down to about 170-180 left, and several more people will go before graduation. with the new policies that are being instated, it'll be even harder to make it through this place. however, IT CAN BE DONE. i'm proof that anyone can make it through. i'd say most people here are smarter than me, but i've done what i have to do and i'm now 350 (give or take) days from graduation.
if this is what you want, you can make it. don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
Acta Non Verba... don't say it, live it.

SamAca10: Is2day4him gave a great response and it's right on. I'll add and amplify - all the Acadmies are hard to get in and getting harder. That said, from an average standard test score perspective and possibly from an average class rank perspective KP may indeed be easier to get into from one of the 25-40 states that aren't the usual top 10 sources for KP applicants. This is probably more so from the perspective that you are more likely to get a nomination from your own Member of Congress and you could possibly get one of your home state's spots rather than competing in the national pool.

That said "Is2day" is also I believe correct in saying that KP is historically the hardest to get through if you look at graduation rates and graduating class ciszes versus entering class sizes. Like him I believe it is primarily because of the Academic Calender. To get your four year degree you basically have to complete 4 years of on campus work in the 3 years you are not at sea. To do that you will at least currently be on a trimester schedule with 14 week trimesters. If you look at a typical course sylllabus for common stnadard classes like say Calculus II and compare the KP course, which is delivered on a 14 week trimester to a corresponding course that is delivered at a typical college in a 16 week semester you'll see it's basically the same material in two less weeks of contact time. Add to that fact that in addition to the usual demands on your time of academics you also have regimental duties to do and even if you are one of the few USMMA Midshipmen who does not participate in some Varisty Sport or large scale xtra-curricular program like the Regimental Band and even for smart guys like most entering Plebe Candidates, it is a challenging program to say the least.

So yes, it may be easier to get into Kings Point from a state like Kansas then say West Point since unlike places where pools of likely interested future West Pointers might come, such as Fort Riley, there's no corresponding location like The Port of Baltimore for Kings Point, getting in is just the first part of the battle. I too wouldn;t want to discourage ANYONE from applying but I will say, none of the Service Academies are easy to get through either and to do so, you usually have to want to go there and be willing to do what it takes to "be from there" four years after entering.

Is2Day4Him - you said "with the new policies that are being instated"

Could you please elaborate.

Thanks. A concerned dad trying to give his son advice on a major
Dave W.

Thanks guys. Especially Is2day4him. I think KP has amazing possibilities: the fact that they can commission into any branch of the armed forces, the Sea Year. However I was wondering about majors...it seems really limited. I want to pursue electrical or mechanical engineering. Does KP have any way of letting me do that?

SamAca10,

Stop trying to talk yourself out of KP. You know it is the right choice for you. The fact is you wouldn't be asking these questions if you weren't serious about taking advantage of his great opportunity.

I am sure you will be good at whatever you decide to do where ever you decide to do it.

Wher are you from anyway? Maybe it would be a good idea to contact the parent association in your area so you can talk to them face to face.

I really hope to see you here next year.

currently, the Superintendant has made it known that second chances are basically a thing of the past around here. if you can't hack it, regardless of your effort, he said he'd send you packing. i'm going to take his word for it and do my best.

as far as majors go, and yes i am exceptionally biased, engineering is the way to go. while yes, it only shows that we have 3 engineering majors, in any of them you learn how to be every kind of engineer. you learn mechanical engineering, electrical, naval architecture, system design, etc... if you do well, you can get a concentration in one of several arenas (may not be a complete list): naval architecture, nuclear power, offshore, mechanical, electrical, environmental, etc...

basically, the engineering majors are pretty intense, but you learn how to do a lot of stuff that engineers that might study at a conventional college would never dream of doing as school work. you'll be turning wrenches, getting dirty, etc, and at the same time it requires a lot of thought and mental foresight. for example, here in about 10 minutes i start a 3 hour lab period on marine refrigeration units. we have to know the ins and outs of how this stuff works prior to taking the EPA certification test in october. this will require a lot of working on units that i've seen and worked on out at sea, which makes it a lot easier now because it's nothing new.

once again, if you want it, go for it. the only thing that'll stop you is you.

So What Do You Take @ KP if you wanna be a "real engineer"

SamAca10 said:

Thanks guys. Especially Is2day4him. I think KP has amazing possibilities: the fact that they can commission into any branch of the armed forces, the Sea Year. However I was wondering about majors...it seems really limited. I want to pursue electrical or mechanical engineering. Does KP have any way of letting me do that?

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Sam: Then it's really a no brainer you take Marine Engineering Systems, study hard, get both the necessary theoretical education you need to sit for your EIT upon graduation, get practical engineering education and experience second to none, graduate with great "Options & Opportunities" - get a job upon graduation that along with your EIT both satisfies your service obligation and lets you sit for your PE Liscence in 5 or 6 years, and probably provides you an interesting career start working for a company that helps you with tunition reimbursement for you grad school program for you MSEE or MSME. Though to be sure the KP experience is even better for Mechanical Enginering than Electrical Engineering.

That said first you have to get in and get through whatever college you decide to focus on. I say this because it's great to explore the future possibilities but in my own case now 25 years into what is basically my third career since leaving high school, my advice is go for what you think you want today but don't worry too, too much about what it all will mean 25 years from now. It'll be a different world in many ways by then. So living in the moment and practicing Acta Non Verba for me hasn't been a bad way to go.

Good Luck

Correct me if I am wrong, but you guys are saying that KP will give me a "hands on" experience as well as the theoretical/mathematical background of engineering? Also, would I be guaranteed the chance to commission into any of the branches of the military? No offense to anyone, but I don't want to be an officer in the merchant marine. One thing that got me interested in KP was the fact that they could keep their options open...Speaking of options, does KP have any sort of summer experiences like the other SA's? For instance, could they go aboard the Eagle or participate in any sort of flight training?

SAM, KP has trimesters, so the summer carries a different weight. As far as summer experiences go, KP meets or exceeds other summer experiences. There is not an academy out there that has more sea time than the KPers....and I didn't go to KP, so that's saying something if I'm actually sticking up for them.

One of the things that make KP unique is the sea year experience. If you choose engineering you will spend 300+ days at sea in the engine rooms of U.S. flagged ships. A certain portion of this time has to be spent on steam ships so you will get a broad range of experience. While you are out there you will get plenty of hands on experience and many, many opportunities to get your hands dirty. By the time my DS returned from his first sea period he was the third best welder on the ship. If you major in marine engineering (straight engine) you will get more hands on training while at the academy than if you major in systems or shipyard management. On the other hand, systems and shipyard are ABET accredited courses which may make any post graduate work a little easier.
If I were you I would consider systems. If it doesn't work out you can change to straight engine. The only problem I see with shipyard is that you will spend 100 days in a shipyard which will count as "sea days." If you change majors it is not real clear how that will effect your sea year requirement.
Yes, if you go to KP you can commission into any branch of the military as well as NOAA. If you choose to sail you will be commissioned as an Ensign in the Navy Reserve.
In addition to the sea year experience you will also be required to complete a 2 week internship in an area of interest to you. If, for example, you have an interest in aviation they can usually make that happen for you.
There have also been mids who have attended jump school at Ft Benning as well as the Army helicopter assault course.
That was a lot longer than I intended ...sorry

KPMarineopsdad said:

One of the things that make KP unique is the sea year experience. If you choose engineering you will spend 300+ days at sea in the engine rooms of U.S. flagged ships. A certain portion of this time has to be spent on steam ships so you will get a broad range of experience. While you are out there you will get plenty of hands on experience and many, many opportunities to get your hands dirty. By the time my DS returned from his first sea period he was the third best welder on the ship. If you major in marine engineering (straight engine) you will get more hands on training while at the academy than if you major in systems or shipyard management. On the other hand, systems and shipyard are ABET accredited courses which may make any post graduate work a little easier.
If I were you I would consider systems. If it doesn't work out you can change to straight engine. The only problem I see with shipyard is that you will spend 100 days in a shipyard which will count as "sea days." If you change majors it is not real clear how that will effect your sea year requirement.
Yes, if you go to KP you can commission into any branch of the military as well as NOAA. If you choose to sail you will be commissioned as an Ensign in the Navy Reserve.
In addition to the sea year experience you will also be required to complete a 2 week internship in an area of interest to you. If, for example, you have an interest in aviation they can usually make that happen for you.
There have also been mids who have attended jump school at Ft Benning as well as the Army helicopter assault course.
That was a lot longer than I intended ...sorry

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And I have trained four (4) Air Force pilots that were KP grad's...

Of course, "we" gave them serious "grief" about that!

(but they're all VERY good pilots and their sea stories are plenty interesting)

Steve
USAFA ALO
USAFA '83

you want hands on? you got it.

SamAca10 said:

Correct me if I am wrong, but you guys are saying that KP will give me a "hands on" experience as well as the theoretical/mathematical background of engineering? Also, would I be guaranteed the chance to commission into any of the branches of the military? No offense to anyone, but I don't want to be an officer in the merchant marine. One thing that got me interested in KP was the fact that they could keep their options open...Speaking of options, does KP have any sort of summer experiences like the other SA's? For instance, could they go aboard the Eagle or participate in any sort of flight training?

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KP will give you more hands on experience than any other engineering program i'm aware of (other maritime schools provide a close second from what i gather from those that i've sailed with). spending a year at sea, you are working every day on engine machinery that requires in depth understanding of engineering principles and theory. this hands on experience not only shows that you know your stuff, but helps you understand the more advanced principles more clearly.

as far as commissioning goes, there are ample opportunities to commission where ever you'd like. some require you sign the dotted line earlier than others, but either way you can do it.

as for saying you don't want to be a MM officer, that's fine, but i wouldn't come to conclusions at your stage in life about what sea life is like. i said the same thing when i was still in the application process, and after spending a year at sea, a lot has changed in how i view going to sea. while i still don't think i would want to make a full career of it, i won't close that door just yet because YOU NEVER KNOW. sea life is quite interesting and is quite enjoyable...most of the time.

as far as "other training", and no offense to the USCGA, but the Eagle's got nothing on what we do at sea. that'd be like comparing AA high school ball to the NY Yankees. if you want to do a flight internship, bring it on. many of my friends did internships with fighter squadrons and flew backseat on several occasions. they also offer Airborne and Air Assault trainings through the Army, CG search and rescue helo ops, etc...

for my internship, for example, i worked with the US Army Research and Development Engineering Corps in NJ to assist in the redesign of an armor system that is currently being used in theatre.

i guess i say all that to say this: if you want unique, hands-on training, don't waste your time looking elsewhere. i have friends at USNA, USMA, USAFA, and USCGA, and none of them have done the kinds of things i've not only been able to do, but been required to do. while they still have great opportunities, you'd be hard pressed to find guys from the other SAs that have been around the world 3 times, been in the middle of civil wars on the other side of the world, etc... and know how to do everything from mathematically analyze bearings to weld and rebuild complicated pieces of machinery.
you want a challenge? come on.
you want to become a competent engineer? let's go.
you want an experience that no other school in the world will offer? bring your A game. you'll need it.

Is2Day4Him is absolutely correct. To put it bluntly, KP is a vocational school. Have a friend whose son is an 08 grad and was in San Diego for his two weeks reserve. They were being given a tour of a Navy Frigate, were in the engine room and the DCA (Damage Control Assistant) was their tour guide. He pointed to a piece of equipment and said something like " . . . and, uh, this is a pump" and continued on. Friends son, an Engineering Grad, thought to himself, "yes, it a centrifigual pump; diamater of the output pipe is about 3 in so it can pump XX many gallons per min, and I can probably take it out, rebuild it and have it reinstalled in two hours!"

On a Naval Ship, if something breaks, it's the Pettty Officers who repair it, supervised by the Chief. On a Merchant Ship when something breaks as sea,(I'm assuming) the Chief Engineer, 1st, 2nd and 3rd Eng Mates are all intimately involved in the repair process.

My son is thoroughly enjoying the hands on things he's doing in KP-100. He's looking forward to taking the welding course and numerous other opportunities provided at KP which are not available at the other Academies/universities. Dave W.

Thanks as a Mom of a plebe I have learned so much from this thread. You are all great. Thanks for the education.

nadofr8dog: Gee. I've never heard of academies being referred to as 'vocational' schools. i'm guessing you'd classify the others that way as well.. assuming their vocation would be soldier, airman, midshipman, ... as many of the KPers will become as well.
I'll have to admit, if you classify it thusly, it's the only one I know of that requires the MULTIPLE levels of Calculus, Differential Equations, Physics, Chemistry... especially for the electrical engineering and nuclear engineering vocations as well.

Granted, by spending basically a year at sea, you are going to be learning and applying active principles (all while doing your sea project as well). You will be working side-by-side for extended periods will more of a cross-section of personalities and professionals that you could have dreamed possible.
You WON'T have a two-week assignment to see what a ship LOOKS like... (while your 'keepers' are prevented from giving your real responsibilities).
Bring your A-game.

Zonker: Sorry, I'll maintain that any school that teaches you how to rebuild a pump, service a HVAC system or tear apart an engine is a vocational school. The nice thing about KP is that you learn the theory behind what you are doing, and then go out and do it!

I'm a USNA grad and I can guarantee you we didn't do any of this stuff. As I said in my previous post, officers don't get involved in the "hands on" repairs. I've been told one of the problems with KP'ers who go navy line, ship drivers, is they want to do the work rather than leave it to the Petty Officers. They've got to learn to take a step back and supervise.

I will also maintain that any KP'er who goes Navy Air probably has a better understanding of acft engines, hydraulic systems and basic aircraft maintenance right out of the chute than a Boat Schooler. The Naval Academy gives one little to no hands on training. If they did, then why do grads going surface line attend Baby SWO?? Or Aviators go to Primary??

KP'ers have their license! They are a Third Mate upon graduation, Any Ocean / Any Tonnage, walk aboard any ship and do the job. No other academy, University or Maritime School can boast that.

FWIW, Dave W.

Nice try !

"I've been told one of the problems with KP'ers who go navy line, ship drivers, is they want to do the work rather than leave it to the Petty Officers. They've got to learn to take a step back and supervise."

I would'nt doubt that. I would say the same thing if I could'nt do the job, and I had the same engineering degree. I would try to make it look like a weakness that the other guy could actually get the job done. Of course if my senior enlisted where incapacitated. My ship might be in trouble because I could'nt fix it!

SamAca10 said:

No offense to anyone, but I don't want to be an officer in the merchant marine.

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If you make it to KP I'd advise keeping this to yourself. Any cadet I had aboard my ships who told me some version of this was in for a rough trip. I'd try for a bit to change thier perspective, but after that it was not worth my time to teach someone my trade without any interest on thier part. Ship's officers have plenty of work to do without helping out a disinterested cadet.