108 Billion Forgiven......

I've had this conversation before with Jcleppe.
FWIW, I'm borderline boomer/genx. born in '65
I too am in the design (now management) end of concrete construction. Got an Assoc. degree right out of high school. continued my education on my own dime while I worked and went to school. With the same company for 30 yrs. Our GM went to Vo-Tech. Our sales manager went to Vo tech and maybe 1 year of college. Our company owner graduated from K-State and was a SEE BEA in Vietnam. He is retired and leaves it too us to make him money.

I personally don't think a lot of kids coming out of high school know how satisfying (financially too) a manual labor job can be and how you can still get an education in time with your own money and move their way up the corporate ladder. And they probably won't know until the parents and schools start teaching them.

I'm a Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) fan. I think Trump needs to put him on his staff.
 
As a first generation college student of 2 factory workers with grandparents who didn't attend school beyond 5th grade - what???????

So the kids who chose the school they couldn't afford because it was "perfect" get off and go about their merry way leaving the rest of us to pay? Someone is going to pay. This is unreal.
 
Interesting conversation - and here's my 2 cents. DH does not have a college degree - he turned 18 before completing high school and enlisted in the Navy (you could, back then). Ultimately, the Navy had him get his GED, and that is where his education ended. He became unemployed this summer through no fault of his own, but in 20 weeks of steady applications and resumes, he has had a total of 3 interviews. Since college grads are now a dime a dozen, many jobs are requiring at least an associates to even be considered. It's a fast way for the assistant to sort the 150 apps so the the manager only has to look at 25. DH is being told he is too experienced for entry-level stuff, but not educated enough for anything else. He's now working part time as a bus driver for the local school. Recently our local contracted food service for the public school ran an ad - part time employment, associates required, bachelor's preferred. That's right, a bachelor's degree to be a part time lunch lady (apologies for the gender bias). Didn't specify a bachelors in nutrition, so apparently an bachelor's in Art History makes you better for the job than a parent of three who volunteers with Scouts and a soup kitchen. I see a lot of people complaining that tech schools aren't being supported by students, but from what I've seen the last few weeks, employers don't want them either.

The digital/information age means fewer and fewer people actually need to be employed. Elon Musk (the Tesla guy) believes there won't be enough work to go around. http://fortune.com/2016/11/06/elon-musk-universal-basic-income/

I'm just grateful my DS seems to be good in math and great in science. I feel kind of sorry for kids not comfortable with STEM.
 
Interesting conversation - and here's my 2 cents. DH does not have a college degree - he turned 18 before completing high school and enlisted in the Navy (you could, back then). Ultimately, the Navy had him get his GED, and that is where his education ended. He became unemployed this summer through no fault of his own, but in 20 weeks of steady applications and resumes, he has had a total of 3 interviews. Since college grads are now a dime a dozen, many jobs are requiring at least an associates to even be considered. It's a fast way for the assistant to sort the 150 apps so the the manager only has to look at 25. DH is being told he is too experienced for entry-level stuff, but not educated enough for anything else. He's now working part time as a bus driver for the local school. Recently our local contracted food service for the public school ran an ad - part time employment, associates required, bachelor's preferred. That's right, a bachelor's degree to be a part time lunch lady (apologies for the gender bias). Didn't specify a bachelors in nutrition, so apparently an bachelor's in Art History makes you better for the job than a parent of three who volunteers with Scouts and a soup kitchen. I see a lot of people complaining that tech schools aren't being supported by students, but from what I've seen the last few weeks, employers don't want them either.

The digital/information age means fewer and fewer people actually need to be employed. Elon Musk (the Tesla guy) believes there won't be enough work to go around. http://fortune.com/2016/11/06/elon-musk-universal-basic-income/

I'm just grateful my DS seems to be good in math and great in science. I feel kind of sorry for kids not comfortable with STEM.


I would say a lot depends in what part of the country you live in as to whether tech schools are frowned upon or not. And I agree that there are companies out there that just flat out say a college degree is required.
We have a very exceptional tech college in our area that even works with area 4 yr colleges so kids can get their pre-reqs out of the way with them without overloading the bigger colleges with a bunch of freshman. Even some of the specialized degrees (medical fields, business, etc) you can take 2 yrs worth of classes before transferring. They work together on the curriculum.

My wife is a bookkeeper for a General Contractor. She has a few colleges course but nothing really to speak of. Her company definitely pays people with a college degree more, not that they necessarily know more.

Aa a person that interviews and hires, I will more than likely hire a kid/person that worked his way thru college and got B's and C's before I hire a kid that went straight thru college out of hire school and got A's and B's.

But I am a little more old school and a lot of the people doing the hiring nowadays are the ones that went thru college and got their degrees so that is what they know. I am in no way saying a college education or degree is bad, just that there are options.
 

COLLEGE DEBT CRISIS IN A NUTSHELL

1. Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005. Makes it impossible to discharge education loans through bankruptcy filings.
2. Lenders quickly grant education loans more freely, knowing that these loans must be repaid, i.e. borrowers can never escape them.
3. Colleges dramatically raise tuition, knowing that lenders will loan whatever it takes & students will borrow ever higher amounts.
4. Result: College financing becomes a drain on the economy. College grads buy fewer new cars & houses (life blood of a healthy economy) while taking years longer to pay off college debt.

SOLUTION:
REFORM THE 2005 BANKRUPTCY REFORM ACT (Were things really so bad before 2005?)

REALITY:
Too much money being made by lenders & colleges to make this happen. They will bribe congress (ooops, I mean make political contributions, of course) not to change the law. Crisis continues. Rest of world shakes their heads at America allowing high finance eat up young people's finances. Nowhere else in the developed world does this happen.
 
3. Colleges dramatically raise tuition, knowing that lenders will loan whatever it takes & students will borrow ever higher amounts.

Naaaw....they would never do that...would they?

Forgiving and restructuring current student debt will just be a temporary band aid on the problem if the government continues to give loans at the current pace and private lenders ramp up lending in the future.
 
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Wow Scout Pilot we are finally on the same side of a debate! The only ones that are worse than the Boomers are the "Lucky Few" they were so much in demand they got paid to get the training that the younger generations had to pay for and think it was all due to their incredible work ethic.
 
COLLEGE DEBT CRISIS IN A NUTSHELL

1. Bankruptcy Reform Act of 2005. Makes it impossible to discharge education loans through bankruptcy filings.
2. Lenders quickly grant education loans more freely, knowing that these loans must be repaid, i.e. borrowers can never escape them.
3. Colleges dramatically raise tuition, knowing that lenders will loan whatever it takes & students will borrow ever higher amounts.
4. Result: College financing becomes a drain on the economy. College grads buy fewer new cars & houses (life blood of a healthy economy) while taking years longer to pay off college debt.

SOLUTION:
REFORM THE 2005 BANKRUPTCY REFORM ACT (Were things really so bad before 2005?)

REALITY:
Too much money being made by lenders & colleges to make this happen. They will bribe congress (ooops, I mean make political contributions, of course) not to change the law. Crisis continues. Rest of world shakes their heads at America allowing high finance eat up young people's finances. Nowhere else in the developed world does this happen.
Day-Tripper I have to disagree.
1- This first statement is patently incorrect. You can still file (and receive) bankruptcy relief, even for student loans, but the post-2005 means testing is much stricter... As it should have been all along. If you have student loans and drink Starbucks, pay for cable, have a beer at a 'trendy' bar, or own an iPhone... You don't require government mandated debt relief/restructuring/forgiveness.
2. This statement should be amended to read: "Borrowers continue to enter into a legal binding contract to receive ever larger loan amounts in order to subsidize their educational and lifestyle choices." You can then add your bit.. Except the part about 'escaping' the loans, see my closing remarks below for a proposed solution to this oversimple (to solve) conundrum.
3. The effect you describe is a byproduct of a well functioning market economy and is a direct result of the producers and consumers who utilyze it to conduct their transactions. Incidentally, this even occurs in the worst of economic systems. See current value of 'Socialist Utopian' Venezuela's currency (the black market 'actual' rate, not the government established one you'll see on XE) for another illustration of this process. Adam Smith's first principles always apply.
4. I am not a learned economist, but suspect there is a bit more to it than your simplification regarding cars and homes. However I will concede it plays a appreciable part in a 'healthy economy', by whatever metric one wants to measure that assertion against. Regardless, borrowers (even the products of an 'everyone gets a trophy' - 'you can be anything you want' upbringing) have a legal, and probably MORE importantly, a M-O-R-A-L obligation to repay a fiduciary commitment incurred through the exercise of free will.

Personal Responsibility is what is lacking. The members of our society who are to become the future workforce need to sit down (or BE SAT DOWN by their parents/current providers/friends & confidants) and map out a rough outline of their considered future BEFORE signing loan paperwork or accepting that 'dream' college admissions offer. Use simple math, maybe a spreadsheet but certainly write it down so it is 'real'... reference a calendar and apply personal historical context... and above all inject realistic actuary information and/or honest answers from DS or DD regarding prospective costs, earnings potential, bills, living expences, life expectations, and personal desires. To do otherweise and then blame 'the system' is asinine.
 
Personal Responsibility is what is lacking. The members of our society who are to become the future workforce need to sit down (or BE SAT DOWN by their parents/current providers/friends & confidants) and map out a rough outline of their considered future BEFORE signing loan paperwork or accepting that 'dream' college admissions offer. Use simple math, maybe a spreadsheet but certainly write it down so it is 'real'... reference a calendar and apply personal historical context... and above all inject realistic actuary information and/or honest answers from DS or DD regarding prospective costs, earnings potential, bills, living expences, life expectations, and personal desires. To do otherweise and then blame 'the system' is asinine.

I don't think 17 and 18 year olds have any concept of just how deeply they can get into debt with college loans, and how hard it can be to pay the loans back, depending upon their chosen careers. Sadly, their parents may not understand, either. However, the lenders and colleges certainly know. And the bankruptcy system is stacked against them; it was easier for Mr. Trump to declare bankruptcy several times in his career than it is to discharge student loans.

Even the military understands that kids out of high school don't know exactly what they want - students can leave the service academies after 2 years without owing money, and ROTC students can walk away from their scholarships debt free if they drop out after one year.

I agree with Lulu3 that blaming the system is asinine, but the entire system (students, parents, lenders, and schools) needs to take responsibility.
 
@Day-Tripper and @Lulu3,

The loans are guaranteed by the US Gov't and serviced by public and private corporation. The companies, like Nelnet, take no borrower risk. The US gov't assumes it all if/when the loans become non-performing.

Do you really think the issue would be sitting on the back burner if private companies and stock holders were eating these bad loans?
 
Summary: the Baby Boomer generation is the worst. Keep telling us we're lazy and entitled, Boomers. You raised us.

And who do you think raised us? And indulged us? And pulled strings to help their sons avoid serving in Vietnam? Who gave us the 18 year old drinking age? It was the "Greatest Generation?"

They knew all about an open and competitive educational and work environment. I pulled out my father's Class picture from Columbia University Medical School from 1940. There were three women, one of whom was the only black member of the class. The latter, with an IVY league medical degree could only hope for a career in public health and at an all-black medical school.

Our mothers smoked and drank while we were in the womb. Car Seats? Before I was old enough to sit up on my own, I was transported in a wicker laundry basket, in a car that was 10 years too early for seat belts.

Our parents covered up for us, but it was easier then, because even the cops covered up for most of us white kids as long as we said "Yes, Sir " and "No, Sir". The punishment for underage alcohol possession was usually loss of the alcohol.

For all the coddling, it pales in comparison to today's crop of post babyboom parents who labor over the individualistic and unique spelling of a children's names.

It was "Greatest Generation" that gave us the phony baloney Social Security reform in 1985. A bailout to last them their expected lifetimes and no more. I specifically remember my boomer buddies and me wondering why they don't just raise the retirement age by one month/year for 24 years. If more millennials and Gen Xers voted when they came of age, then maybe we wouldn't be stuck with Medicare part D or at least it would have been paid for. Maybe the War on Terror would have been be paid for.

If the boomer generation owns Donald Trump and HRC, then the Gen Xers and millennials own Mark Zuckerberg (who famously called Facebook Users "dumb f***s"), the Kardashians and Bernie "Free College Tuition for all" Sanders.
 
@Day-Tripper and @Lulu3,

The loans are guaranteed by the US Gov't and serviced by public and private corporation. The companies, like Nelnet, take no borrower risk. The US gov't assumes it all if/when the loans become non-performing.

Do you really think the issue would be sitting on the back burner if private companies and stock holders were eating these bad loans?
No, but that wasn't the sentiment of the original thread unless I misunderstood the WSJ video and the OP's intent. Whether the loans should be guaranteed or not is a different question (they shouldn't). Since you bring it up; therein lies the moral hazard of writing regulation, with what I'll only assume was the best of intentions, that isn't thoroughly considered and which effectively functions to bypass the market system (as this does). And it is a 'hidden tax' on the poorer middle and even the lower classes, who overwhelmingly don't DIRECTLY utilize (I realize there may be other benefits they realize from the education/research of 'others') this benefit... a benefit realized by having the cheaper publicly funded systems OR by taking out a publicly secured personal loan to attend a public or private institution. Friedman, himself a recipient of a publicly funded scholarship, argued ad nauseum against the public funding of what should be, in his (and my) considered opinion, a purely private venture (I'll make exception for items like the GI Bill, etc... b/c they are E-A-R-N-E-D!). Old Milt also argued that if you were going to do it, then income contingent loans were the best way to implement such a system.. so the borrower and lender both share an apportionment of the risk of that loan. In either case, except in the absolute worst of means tested situations, those loans should be repaid by the borrower according to the terms of the contractual agreement. My contention/sentiment was that a barista in NY earning $12.95/hr with a $150k MA in Egyptian Third Empire Fingerpainting and/or an undergrad minor that reads '-InsertUselessSubjectName- Studies' should have probably looked long and hard at the job market and invested some of their precious time a priori in consideration of the imminently approaching future when.. and based on that decided whether or not to follow their sanguine 'feeling' dream. There will always be outliers and circumstances of real hardship, and those are case by case.... the Chapter 7 court filing considers that. All mass forgiving of this debt does is to teach a learned behavior of indiscretion and lack of accountability regarding one's own affairs. These would be the same types who exercised their '1st amendment rights' and spent a week marching up and down city streets in the dark of the night damaging private property in something they called a 'protest' .... I guess against the election process/results/name of the day of the week. Same one's who plopped a squat in Zuccotti Park and cried that they were going to hold their breath until the world caved to their demands.

The real problem in this case (as with most things involving an ever growing federal bureaucracy) is the public sector muddling in what should have been left as an almost purely private concern while trying to ensure everyone gets their 'fair share'... When (presumptively well meaning) politicians get involved in something like this, they remove much if not all 'liability' off of the implementers (private sector loan agents) and beneficiaries (borrowers) of the program... all in the misguided belief that this action will best serve the public interest. Someone said it earlier, but I'll repeat it here.. I am a big fan of a Mike Rowe-esqe blue collar trade/work initiative.... AS WELL AS having a college/university system.. but that higher education is NOT for everybody (however, WORK IS!). College may be 'available' for everyone, but everyone definitely should not be accommodated to get there just b/c they have had a <state school> throw rug and matching sconce ever since they were 6.
 
The current higher education tuition debate in this country is missing the key issue: Our current secondary education system was developed for an economy that virtually no longer exists in this country. In order to assure that more young people succeed economically in this country, we must reexamine our approach to secondary and higher education. Like many fiscal conservatives, I was initially appalled at Bernie Sanders' proposal to offer free four-year college to every young person in the United States. My fiscally conservative brain cells kicked into action, screaming "The country cannot afford that type of additional expense." Now, I have come to the conclusion that the country cannot continue to thrive without that type of additional investment in our country's best assets, our young people. That said, every young person is not a good fit for a traditional college education and they have to put some skin in the game to make "free" higher education a reality.

Here is my proposal: Instead of ending secondary education at grade 12, our country should extend required education by an additional two years. If, at the end of grade 12, a student has a grade point average of 3.0 or above, they can chose to go to a technical college for two years or a community college for two years at the taxpayers' expense. If a student has a grade point average below 3.0, they can automatically enter technical college or opt to take remedial classes in writing, math or science to prove they are capable of succeeding at the community college level, all at the taxpayers' expense. As a society we need to change our mindset, technical college graduates are every bit as valuable to our economy as college graduates, and, in some cases, more valuable. Simply put, there is no shame in graduating from a technical college. More on this point later in my diatribe.

Regardless of the path taken, technical college or community college, the tax payers will take on the burden of paying tuition and books but not room and board. In exchange, students must maintain a minimum of a 3.0 grade point average. In addition, students must put some skin in the game, too. There should be no such thing as a free ride when the taxpayers are footing the bill. Students must commit two years service to Americorps or the US military, upon leaving school. There, they will learn valuable job and people skills, and serve their country.

For students who wish to continue their higher education beyond the additional required two years, the taxpayers again will shoulder the financial burden, provided the student maintains at least a 3.0 grade point average and enrolls in a state university. The taxpayers will not pay room and board and there will be a mandatory three-year service commitment. Again, there should be no free ride when the taxpayers are paying tuition bills. Should students wish to enroll in private colleges and universities, they or their parents can shoulder that financial burden entirely, without assistance from taxpayers. Of course, there will be no mandatory civil or military service commitment for these privileged young people. But my hope is that private employers will look down on a young person who submits a resume that is missing the service experience.

Education is the key to the US maintaining its leading position around the globe. We must reshape our educational system to recognize that ending education at the conclusion of the twelfth grade is almost always a recipe for living paycheck to paycheck (or worse) in today's economy. Additional education is the best investment we can make in our country. While we can debate the meaning (and merit) of Donald Trump's "Make America Great Again" slogan, the statistics don't lie. Citizens who have more education do better economically and have more options if their employers go out of business, downsize, or move jobs out of this country. Economic stability is good for individuals, marriages, families, communities, and the country.

It is time for this country to reexamine our mindset that most of our children must obtain a four-year college degree. The reality is that many of our young people have four-year degrees that are of no economic benefit to them. Further, many of our young people are not wired to sit through four years of college and thrive academically. As a country we should celebrate the technical college graduate's diploma just as much as we enthusiastically celebrate the university graduate's diploma.

Today, we are forced to import welders from other countries to work on large industrial construction projects in this country. These are high paying jobs with good benefits. Likewise, our skilled trade workers (electricians, iron workers, machinists, etc.) are aging out. Again, these are high paid positions. An electrician or iron worker on a public prevailing wage project can earn more than $85.00 per hour, with benefits. How much does the Starbucks worker with a four-year college degree in history earn per hour?

My oldest son graduated with a four-year degree in history from a Senior Military College. But for the fact that he commissioned as an active duty Army officer upon graduation, I am certain my son would have been forced to move back home after graduation and live in my basement. The pride my husband and I felt as our son walked across the stage to pick up his diploma would soon have been replaced with angst about his economic future and getting him off our dole as soon as possible. He, like many others, will eventually be forced to go to graduate school, if he wants to maximize his earning potential. Fortunately, the US military will likely make that opportunity available to him.

Burdening our young people with extraordinary debt is a threat to our country's stability. The rust belt and rural voters are angry at Washington, in part, because they are struggling financially. Putting aside arguments that many of these voters have made poor personal choices and live above their means, many of them have a high school education at best. When the window manufacturing plant shut down in Wisconsin and moved to Mexico or the steel plant shut down in Ohio and moved steel fabrication to China, these Americans lost their union jobs. They do not have transferable skills because their education stopped on the day they picked up their high school diploma. Much like the craft worker (the candle maker, the weaver, etc.) was left behind when the industrial revolution changed our country's economy, these factory workers have been left behind as our country has shifted to a service and technology-driven economy.

Whether you believe that we need to make America great again or, at a minimum, make it better for the working class and our young people, we need to reexamine how we educate our young people. This will take courage on the part of our public officials in Washington and in our respective state capitols. I can safely say that I will never vote for Bernie Sanders, but his free tuition proposal might have legs, assuming his followers are willing to put skin in the game. I am skeptical about whether Donald Trump can morph into a competent leader, but I am confident that this is the type of change the Donald could get behind and champion.
 
And who do you think raised us? And indulged us? And pulled strings to help their sons avoid serving in Vietnam? Who gave us the 18 year old drinking age? It was the "Greatest Generation?"

They knew all about an open and competitive educational and work environment. I pulled out my father's Class picture from Columbia University Medical School from 1940. There were three women, one of whom was the only black member of the class. The latter, with an IVY league medical degree could only hope for a career in public health and at an all-black medical school.

Our mothers smoked and drank while we were in the womb. Car Seats? Before I was old enough to sit up on my own, I was transported in a wicker laundry basket, in a car that was 10 years too early for seat belts.

Our parents covered up for us, but it was easier then, because even the cops covered up for most of us white kids as long as we said "Yes, Sir " and "No, Sir". The punishment for underage alcohol possession was usually loss of the alcohol.

For all the coddling, it pales in comparison to today's crop of post babyboom parents who labor over the individualistic and unique spelling of a children's names.

It was "Greatest Generation" that gave us the phony baloney Social Security reform in 1985. A bailout to last them their expected lifetimes and no more. I specifically remember my boomer buddies and me wondering why they don't just raise the retirement age by one month/year for 24 years. If more millennials and Gen Xers voted when they came of age, then maybe we wouldn't be stuck with Medicare part D or at least it would have been paid for. Maybe the War on Terror would have been be paid for.

If the boomer generation owns Donald Trump and HRC, then the Gen Xers and millennials own Mark Zuckerberg (who famously called Facebook Users "dumb f***s"), the Kardashians and Bernie "Free College Tuition for all" Sanders.

This is a dumb response and I have laughed at it accordingly.

Don't worry America...once again...nothing is the Boomers' fault. It was their parents who just gave them too gosh-darn much. It was their Gen X kids who just didn't vote enough to forestall those wars! (Never mind that Gen X voted for the guy who actually won the popular vote, thereby voiding the idea that Gen X is to blame for not showing up and voting). The Boomers had no car seats! Smoking! The HORROR of growing up in the greatest Economic expansion in American history!

We get it. It's not your fault. You're just victims, voting yourselves ever-larger payouts from the government till while pounding your fists on the table about fiscal conservatism and personal responsibility and how you didn't spell your kids' names uniquely...harrumph harrumph harrumph.
 
Personal Responsibility is what is lacking. The members of our society who are to become the future workforce need to sit down (or BE SAT DOWN by their parents/current providers/friends & confidants) and map out a rough outline of their considered future BEFORE signing loan paperwork or accepting that 'dream' college admissions offer. Use simple math, maybe a spreadsheet but certainly write it down so it is 'real'... reference a calendar and apply personal historical context... and above all inject realistic actuary information and/or honest answers from DS or DD regarding prospective costs, earnings potential, bills, living expences, life expectations, and personal desires. To do otherweise and then blame 'the system' is asinine.
.

All those counseling will do no good unless there is some sort of accountability.

Why not attend a college with student loan, during Starbuck Coffee and have fun, as if I don't get a job, I can move back with my parents, keep working under the table to earn some spending money, and eventually my loans will be forgiven. Who wants to get up early and work 40 hours a week. Perhaps for some of us older folks, getting a college degree, getting a job, getting married, having kids and raising them properly, buying a house, etc were probably our life goals.

But if the new normal is to moving back into parents house after college jobless, why not?

What is a parent supposed to do when a kid asks to move back into the house after college?
 
Here is my proposal: Instead of ending secondary education at grade 12, our country should extend required education by an additional two years. If, at the end of grade 12, a student has a grade point average of 3.0 or above, they can chose to go to a technical college for two years or a community college for two years at the taxpayers' expense. If a student has a grade point average below 3.0, they can automatically enter technical college or opt to take remedial classes in writing, math or science to prove they are capable of succeeding at the community college level, all at the taxpayers' expense. As a society we need to change our mindset, technical college graduates are every bit as valuable to our economy as college graduates, and, in some cases, more valuable. Simply put, there is no shame in graduating from a technical college. More on this point later in my diatribe.

Sounds good, but I think more the government tires to fix the problem, it's going to make the situation worse.

I am not sure if an assumption that they will enough appropriate jobs (if a high school grad can get the same job as a technical college grad) for technical college graduates.

On a side note, I would not use GPA.
 
This is a dumb response and I have laughed at it accordingly.

Good. That was my intention. It wasn't meant to engage in an intergenerational blame game like you are doing. It was to mock from the bleachers.

I have always enjoyed your posts. They challenge folks to consider the points of view of those whom they criticize, often on the grounds of historical context. Usually, I agree with you and generally let you do the writing, because you're so damned literate and eloquent. But, this shrill attack on the boomer generation sounds like the rantings of a kid in his mom's basement. What must the "Greatest Generation" have thought of the indulgent prosperity of post WWI America, when farmers couldn't rip up native prairie or Wall Street run up stock prices fast enough?

I'm not going to catalogue the achievements of the boomer generation, from technology to civil rights to fighting an extremely unpopular war, because most of us boomers had absolutely nothing to do with those events. Nor will I bow to anyone, not even you, in criticism of the self-indulgence and consumerism of the boomer generation that pervades American Society. Trust me, it didn't start with us although we did help nurture it to full flower.

I won't put words in your mouth, but the sentiments you express are disturbing. It comes across as pure unadulterated blame. Change the word "boomers" to "millionaires and billionaires" and you could address a Bernie Sanders rally. Change it to "Mexicans, Chinese and Muslims" and you could speak at a Trump rally. It is the opposite of the message that needs to be sent to young people.

With some exceptions, I thought posters were sharing examples of how different parents and kids from different kinds of homes are dealing with the changed landscape of today's job market and system of higher ed. This is what matters now. Things have changed quicker than most folks could have prepared for. Maybe you could contribute by recalling how an Enlisted Soldier or even a Officer improved his/her prospects either through hard knocks or happenstance, when he/she found there was no job waiting after separation.

Let's hear from folks who are dealing with the challenges of a modern post-industrial economy rather than b****ing about self-indulgent baby boomers bloated universities.

BTW. Newsflash! Young people don't vote.

upload_2016-12-3_16-15-49.png

That was the sound of the mic hitting the floor. Thanks to all Gen Xers and millennials and their culture memes.
 
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interesting but irrelevant, in our part of the country there has been wanted ads in the paper every week for the last 2 years. They are for Mig Welders. Not the greatest of work, but obviously in high demand.

Flip side to that, one of my son's went to a Lincoln College branch and paid ALOT of money for a 2 year Auto Diesel degree. He has been working for 2 years as A technician (The guys that keep em running) first in John Deere, AG equipt. Now in John Deere heavy construction equipment, some units which I am sure must cost 1/2 to a million dollars. Everything requires Computer diagnostician skills, he was out working in the 100 degree weather on equipment that had to be 110 degrees to the touch. He is so good that companies are trying to steel him from each other....Sounds great Huh! ....... Think again, because the dealerships want or have to have a certain return, His salary is Maxed out at $21 an hour. Try raising a family on that. while paying back Student loans. He did everything right, and just this past couple months got to where he could cash flow one payday to the next without running into the red.

His Grandpa (From the "Lucky Few Generation") was a DuPont factory worker, doing Maintenance and equipment repairs, He was making $45. an hour plus overtime, and retirement benefits, when he retired 20 years ago. He was back filled with young men and women getting $15. an hour. Oh yeah, did I mention that Dupont paid him to take training, he didn't have to pay for Tech school or anything. Oh yeah check out the latest News on Dupont. Cutting all retirement programs and health insurance for future retires as of a couple weeks ago.

My Husband and I Are tweeners, but our heart and battle is for the Younger generations.......My someday book title "One Played , The Rest Payed" One generation that is.
 
Here is my proposal: Instead of ending secondary education at grade 12, our country should extend required education by an additional two years. If, at the end of grade 12, a student has a grade point average of 3.0 or above, they can chose to go to a technical college for two years or a community college for two years at the taxpayers' expense. If a student has a grade point average below 3.0, they can automatically enter technical college or opt to take remedial classes in writing, math or science to prove they are capable of succeeding at the community college level, all at the taxpayers' expense.
Sounds good, but I think more the government tires to fix the problem, it's going to make the situation worse.

I am not sure if an assumption that they will enough appropriate jobs (if a high school grad can get the same job as a technical college grad) for technical college graduates.

On a side note, I would not use GPA.


Yeah they did such a good job in the first 12 years, lets giv'em another 2 to try to get it right!
 
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