1st admission board and LOAs

Discussion in 'Naval Academy - USNA' started by 2Steaktacos, Jul 27, 2012.

  1. 2Steaktacos

    2Steaktacos Member

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    Does anyone know when the first admission board typically meets and if USNA will be doing LOAs this year?
     
  2. 1964BGO

    1964BGO Moderator

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    Typically there is an Admissions Board meeting in mid to late August or early September. It is reasonable to expect that USNA will continue with the use of LOA's as it does serve a useful purpose for both USNA and the candidates, in that it provides USNA with a vehicle to advise top running candidates that they have been recognized as such and to give them specific guidance on how to proceed.
     
  3. fishbowl

    fishbowl Member

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    My now 2C Mid got an LOA the Tuesday after Labor Day in 2009 and later joined the Class of 2014. The LOA was the first of many proud moments on the USNA journey!
     
  4. usna1985

    usna1985 Super Moderator Moderator

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    For all of the candidates and parents of candidates, please remember that LOAs are certainly desirable but . . .

    • The vast majority of successful candidates (i.e., those receiving appointments) did NOT receive an LOA.
    • USNA has generally reduced the number of LOAs in recent years.
    • Those with LOAs must still obtain a nom to receive an appointment and those failing to do so are generally receiving turndowns

    So, please don't fixate on LOAs. Failing to receive one does NOT mean you're doomed. And obtaining one is a great step, but only a step, to an appointment.
     
  5. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    I am sorry in advance for the redundancy. I feel like the following questions have been asked and answered but I still dont "get it"

    this is what I get/dont get:
    -->if your file is completely complete your file will be evaluated and you will be given a numerical score based on academics, leadership, cfa, etc.
    --> at the first admissions meeting the ones with the highest scores may get an early offer for admission-though most likely not as they are reducing the numbers of LOAs. however at this meeting how is the slate factored in? If you dont get an appointment does your file come up agasin at every admissions board? Is it by slate? What if the rest of the slate isnt in until January?

    I feel like this is clear to everyone but it is eluding me still...
     
  6. Blackbird

    Blackbird Parent

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    SA2107,

    There are no "early offers of admissions" at SA's. A LOA is a conditional letter assuring an appointment IF the candidate meets certain requirements. (Notice the emphasis on if.) A LOA is not an appointment and each year somebody gets a LOA but fails to get an appointment because they can not secure a nomination or is disqualified for some other reason like becoming medically disqualified due to an injury.

    The Admissions Boards do rack and stack (that is highest to lowest) the completed applications by WCS (the numerical score you speak of). In the past, some service academies have given out LOA's to cadidates who have not even finished their application because the SA finds the candidate so desirable in some way.

    To your point, Congressional appointments can not be made until the MOC has submitted their slate of nominees and every nominee on the slate in question has completed their application and had their WCS determined or been found to be non-competitive by the SA. So unless you are highly desirable to the SA and receive a LOA, your application waits for the submission of the various nomination slates once you have been racked and stacked. If the last candidate on your MOC's slate finishes their application in January, then that slate's appointment may not occur until after January. Of course, there can be exceptions. For instance some very competitive candidates with Presidential nominations and complete applications have received appointments before all the candidates with Presidential nominations have been ranked. But the SA knows that they will be in the top 100 nominees from previous experience. (There are unlimited Presidential nominations available to the children of AD and retirees but only 100 can receive an appointment).

    You should apply to every nomination source that is available to you: VP, both Senators, Congressman and ROTC or Presidential if eligible. The more slates you are on, the better the possibility of receiving an appointment.

    I hope that provides some clarity to a very complicated and ever changing process. Feel free to disregard if this only confuses the issue.
     
  7. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    so what I think you are saying is the applicants file is compared to all other completed applicants files at the initial admission board meetings, and if they are truly desirable they can receive an LOA (but this is unlikely and not the goal...).

    This goes on until about January, once slates are completed and then the applicants file is only compered to the other files on that slate.


    moving on...

    Left overs (unchosen) from the slate then get put into a wait list and can get drawn from this-but this is unlikely due to shrinking class size


    right?
     
  8. time2

    time2 Member

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    I wouldn't obsess over the finer points of how the admisssions process works. Focus on what you CAN control.......1) Finish your app, 2) Pass your DODMERB medical and CFA, 3) Apply to your MOC for a NOM. 4) Do well on the SAT/ACT's, 5) Finish h.s. with top notch grades, 6) Excel in your h.s. sports, 7) Have a plan B in the event you don't get an appointment. Those should be your top priorities as a candidate.
     
  9. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    Not sure what you mean by "slate" but if I may take a guess

    It's an educated guess work by the admissions committee. If a candidate is good enough to get an LOA, the assumption is the applicant can get a nomination he or she can be charged against. So if Candidate A is perfect, gets a LOA, later on gets a MOC nomination, gets an appointment. If the candidate A is not the number one candidate in the Congressional district, at worst case scenario, the academy can charge him or her against the Supe. I will venture to guess that kids with Presidential nomination and being from a historically non competitive district have a better chance of getting LOA than a kid from from a very competitive district/state. The admissions office should have all the data to minimize the risk.
     
  10. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    I appreciate your response. I wasnt asking what I should do. And you could post this same response and put it as a header for just about any question on this forum. I would assume that candidates know to 1) Finish your app, 2) Pass your DODMERB medical and CFA, 3) Apply for a NOM. 4) Do well on the SAT/ACT's, 5) get good grades, 6) Excel in your h.s. sports, 7) Have a plan B



    However, I have some questions about details, I am allowed to ask without being shut down with answers like-dont think about it instead..........1) Finish your app, 2) Pass your DODMERB medical and CFA, 3) Apply to your MOC for a NOM. 4) Do well on the SAT/ACT's, 5) Finish h.s. with top notch grades, 6) Excel in your h.s. sports, 7) Have a plan B

    You don't have to answer the question if you chose not to, thats ok too. But I can inquire about more specific details If I chose to as well without being told to not think about it. :thumb:
     
  11. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    Thank you, this was the final piece I was missing to grasp it.
     
  12. usna1985

    usna1985 Super Moderator Moderator

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    If you are asking how the MOC's nominating slates factor into the Admissions Board's decisions when reviewing the qualifications of individual candidates -- they don't.

    The first part of the process is for the Admissions Board to evaluate each candidate and determine whether he or she is scholastically qualified. That, along with medical and CFA qualification, make a person triple qualified. That process begins in August and continues roughly weekly into February. That process generates candidates who are scholastically qualified and, once the CFA and medical are successfully completed, a group that is "triple qualified."

    MOC slates start coming into USNA in the fall, with most being submitted in late Dec and Jan. All nom slates are due by Jan 31. All applications (other than CFA and medical) must be complete by Jan. 31. At that point, USNA matches up nominees from the slates with triple qualified candidates chosen as described above.

    Candidates are then slotted against appointment sources (MOC, Pres, etc.). Those not slotted against their nominating source(s) go into the national pool, from which the most qualified applicants receive appointments.

    LOA candidates are considered highly qualified. They sit with their LOA in hand and apply for noms like everyone else. If an LOA candidate doesn't get a nom, these days he/she is unlikely to be offered an appointment. If an LOA candidate is on an MOC slate and is qualified, he/she must be offered an appointment. If more than one LOA candidate is on an MOC slate and is qualified, USNA must offer all of them appointments; the others would be slotted against a different source (e.g., SecNav).
     
  13. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    SA2017,

    I don't think time2 was shutting you down. I think he was being kind and saying you only have so much control in your life, and make sure you have done everything in your control. After that enjoy your sr yr in hs.

    LOA's are rare, they are not the norm. This is a marathon not a sprint. Mentally it is probably the hardest thing to this date in your life you have endured. By March opening your mailbox will come with angst...is there or isn't there a BFE or TWE?

    This site is great, but you will also see come October the traditional list of APPOINTED, and you may have to sit and wait for 5 months before you know, all the while watching the list grow bigger and bigger every week. It will create a knot in your stomach each time a new name is added and you have yet to hear anything.

    That is why I think time2 was being truly supportive with his comment. You cannot tell intonation on a forum like this, and many times we all jump to a conclusion when that was never the intention of the poster

    Just me, but I would have given the exact same advice. Don't worry about the LOA, don't worry about the NWL process, put your best packet forward and go from there. You won't get on the NWL if your WCS is not viewed as competitive. Right now you need to get a nom., and you need to do well on your CFA, keep re-taking the SAT/ACT because they superscore.

    The process is the process, you have no control over it. You do have control over other factors which is really the important issue because they all impact your WCS. Highest WCS wins the appointment. I hope you see that was really time2's perspective. Not shutting you down, just saying your priority is to get the highest WCS.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  14. Packer

    Packer Member

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    I am with SA2017 on this one. I don't think they are necessarily worring about LOA'a or NWL, etc. They just want to understand the process. Understanding the process is valuable.
     
  15. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    I sometimes find the condescension on this forum a little over the top. If a poster has a question let them post it. if someone wants to answer it-than someone can answer it.

    There is a set group of posters no matter what question you ask, instead of answering it they say something like, "dont worry about it, you have no control over it." or "Loas arent the goal"

    Question: what is a tornado?
    Answer: there is nothing you can do to stop one so dont ask what one is-just worry about getting in the basement.
    --I know to get in the basement-cant I just ask what a tornado is?

    Question: what is the admission process?
    Answer: there is nothing you can do to about it so dont ask -just do the best you can
    --I know to do the best I can--cant I just ask about the admission process?

    Question: what is an LOA?
    Answer: They are rare-dont worry about it.
    --I know tthey are rare--cant I just ask about it?

    If people dont want to answer, than dont answer-

    guess what-I know LOAs arent the goal. That wasn't even what I asked originally at all...but as usual it evolved into "loa's arent the goal" ...

    The irony here is if you look at old posts of the posters who condescend for asking the questions-they asked the same questions when their kids were going through.:rolleyes: but now..."don't worry about it":rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2012
  16. time2

    time2 Member

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    After you participate for a while, you get to see the same questions posted over and over and over. Some people make no attempt to do any research on their own or don't even attempt to read the stickies posted at the top of each forum that has the answer to ALL of the really basic questions one might ask.

    There are also the several of the 'this is not a what are my chances thread'.....and then the person goes on to ask us to rate their chances.

    While it is great to be interested in every facet of the application process, I still think a better use of one's time is to understand the overall process in general and then later on get into more of the details. All of the academy websites contain a good bit of detail that should be the starting point for anyone who has any interest in applying. Certain aspects of how your MOC gives out NOM's varies from state to state and it is difficult to answer such questions in generalities. Ranked vs unranked slate, etc.

    Threads tend to also meander from one question to another, so by the time we are on the second or third page, a totally different topic is being discussed which makes it problematic to know exactly which question is being discussed. If someone asks a question for which there is no exact answer, I think it is better to be truthful then cloud the answer with opinion and conjecture. How I THINK the process should work is a different question from how it DOES work.

    Those of us who have participated for several years realize that for many subjects, the best answer is a general one since we can only go by what someone has posted and realize there are aspects of the admissions process that only those on the current admissions committee will be privy to.

    That is just the way it is when applying to service academies.

    Anyone is certainly welcome to post any question they want. Likewise you have to realize that there are some questions you can ask about the admissions process that no one on here can answer.
     
  17. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

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    I wouldn't call it ironic, rather lessons learned. Perhaps some of posters asked the same questions or when I applied 20+ years ago, we might had or asked same questions. But having going through the experience - it becomes "don't worry about it." I would bet that if you end up attending a SA and your participate in this form later, you will give a similair answer.

    Several month ago, I replied to a post along the line of do some research before asking questions. One of the moderators reminded that the primary purpose of this forum is to answer questions, not to lecture someone.

    I do think that most posters are offering their recommendations with good intentions.
     
  18. SA2017

    SA2017 Member

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    MemberLG, thank you for your response.

    I think you are absolutely right. I think most post with good intentions. In fact I personally have not read a response that was not posted with good intentions or at least with humorous intentions ;):thumb:

    Perhaps I will, (this may be along the lines of when I am a parent I plan not to say "because I told you so :wink: )but I would like to think I wont post with some of the same. Since I posted my rant I received personal messages from posters who said they were "lurkers" who stopped posting because of the (Quoting from messages) "condescending" "narrow minded" "patronizing" responses. There is a pattern of posters who do answer the questions without resorting to trite "just try your hardest that's all you can do" phrases.

    Things change year to year with applying to service academies (actually with other aspects too it would seem) One can and should do research on previous threads. However a three year old thread on, for example the NWL, has little to do with the NWL of today with class sizes smaller. Another example of that was this years change on how soon someone is sent to go to DODmerb. When people post here you can tell who the BGOs, ALOs, FFRs are who may have more up to date relevant answers without bombarding our BGOs, ALOs, FFRs with constant small inquiries. Some really dont want these questions. If a BGOs, ALOs, FFRs is on this forum the implication is they dont mind the questions.

    My original question was-if your application goes in front a review board will it keep re-going in front of review boards, how is re-reviewed and how is it presented to the review board within you MOC slate prior to January when all the slates are turned in.

    blackbird, usna1985 and MemberLG-answered the question as best they could.
    Others told me: Don't worry about the LOA, try your hardest,Pass your DODMERB.:confused:

    This wouldn't really be a big deal but it seems to happen frequently on here. Someone posts a question... the question may be the reason that I did which is I just want to understand the process I am going through. Or it may be total idle curiosity, or it may be of a personal nature. And people criticize the poster for asking the question (with good intentions of course).
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am assuming you mean in regards to your WCS for the selection board. If you update your packet, i.e. take a new SAT and score higher, only the PAR aspect of the WCS will be reviewed. The WCS will change to reflect that new PAR. Same as if you submit a new gpa, or a new EC, or a new CFA. Only the portion of the WCS that is being impacted will be reviewed, not the whole packet. You will than get a new WCS. This is why posters will say keep updating your packet, become Captain of Wrestling, update. Become class President in Sept., update it. Become an Eagle Scout, update it. Submit 7th semester grades. All of these things add points, and if these issues occur after you submit your packet, you will hurt yourself by not updating these accomplishments. Once you have a WCS and do not submit updates, than your WCS score remains the same, there is no reason to review your WCS every week for the selection board. Selection boards meet weekly, can you imagine them reviewing 4K candidates every week when there has been no change on their WCS? It would be physically impossible come Feb.

    An MOC can not be charged an appointment if they submit unranked until all 10 on the slate have a WCS. In other words, Candidate number 10 on the slate does not submit until Feb, but the slate was submitted in Oct. MOC A can't be charged until Candidate 10 has a WCS. The MOC is required to submit by the end of January, but the candidate is not required until the end of Feb.

    Do not confuse this with candidates on the slate being appointed. They are 2 different things. Charging goes against the MOC's 5 total. Appointing only requires a nom. and the WCS. I.E. An LOA needs a nom for an apptmt, but the USNA has options on how to charge, and may not use the MOC as the source regarding the charge. This is why you read all the time, all you need is 1 nom. to be appointed.

    You can hear as early as Oct., but remember they don't call it Mass Mailing March for grins and giggles. The majority of appointees receive the BFE in March. Hence, stressing again why you should keep taking an SAT/ACT unless you have a 2400/36 superscore. Or why you keep updating your ECs.

    SA2017, as far as the others, me included, we were not trying to be rude or shooing you away. We were saying you don't have control over the LOA's, which seemed to matter to you, and before you can get an appointment you need to be Q'd from DoDMERB. An issue many candidates never understand until they get the dreaded remedial or DQ letter. It may sound strange, but that advice was meant with the very best intentions. If you look at the DoDMERB thread it is littered with posts regarding I can't believe I was DQ'd.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2012
  20. Memphis9489

    Memphis9489 Parent

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    I doesn't hurt anything to repeat and re-discuss certain topics. Invariably, new things are discovered and brought to light that may have not been fully addressed before. Or a slightly different twist develops that didn't exist before. It's not like we're wasting ink.

    For instance, if you search for "Service Assignment" discussions you might wrongfully discover than many midshipmen are being drafted (i.e. forced) to go subs. They might even run across the word "voluntold". That does not seem to be the case any longer now that women are allowed to select subs. The fact that 100% of the class is eligible to select subs as opposed to 80% has had an impact. Those past discussions are out-of-date.

    And we've learned a little something new in this LOA discussion - fewer of them are being handed out. There has been a change.

    Plus, some people may not even realize that their question is "basic" or "frequently asked". Why scour through the archives reading pages and pages of exchanges when you can simply ask the question? And then, in that discussion, somebody can point them toward a link that has a very thorough, and up-to-date discussion on that topic. It might be a good thing to readdress some topics with some different people online who have had different experiences than when the topic was last discussed.

    A discussion forum such as this is always going to be, by its very nature, somewhat repetitive.
     

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