34,000 troops will be sent to Afghanistan

Discussion in 'Academy/Military News' started by bruno, Dec 1, 2009.

  1. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,001
    Likes Received:
    301
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/30/AR2009113002012.html?hpid=topnews

    I'm looking forward to hearing what the President has to say tonight. It's troubling that it took so long to get to this point- and it will take a lot longer to actually get all those bodies in country. However, it seems as though they are doing what needs to be done. Now there needs to be a pretty aggressive leadership & selling strategy to the US public because clearly much of the country (and especially much of the President's own party) is skittish about this commitment. Subjecting this to the steady drip of continous calls for "reassessment" every time there are more casualties will cut the heart out of the effort and encourage the enemy at the same time. They need to make the decision and then stick with it regardless of the oped pieces to come- let's hope that is what's in the cards.

    [/QUOTE]
     
  2. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    231
    I have heard many cadets say they feel "used and cheap" and "in need of a shower."
     
  3. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2008
    Messages:
    3,001
    Likes Received:
    301
    Folks- I don't care what your politics are- This is the President of the United States and the Commander in Chief announcing a decision of major importance to every military person- if you can't find a way to discuss this intelligently and respectfully - DO NOT POST. If you want to respectfully disagree with the decision - please feel welcome to do so.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    All I hope for is that Obama does make a clear cut decision, and I hope that he does not give a "specific" timeline for withdrawal regardless if the job is done. If we do place a date time line, than the insurgents can just say sit low and wait until they are gone.

    I believe Obama is between a rock and a hard place. He can lose his base, the independents, and the military tonight if he does not appease them all. His base does not want a troop surge, but will accept it if there is an "end game" in the plan. Independents want the war to end, and if it means a troop surge, so be it, but they want it not to be a repeat of Vietnam with no end game. The troops want him to give the support to the troops and never return again.

    As far as mom3boys point, I don't disagree with her. I believe that he could have made his address from the Oval Office and are using the cadets as a photo-op/background. He does not need to use our tax dollars in this economy to fly to WP to give an address that he could have done from the WH. This might be off topic, but don't tell me these are hard economic times and spend tens of thousands of taxpayer dollars to make a speech that could have been done cheaper. Bush 41, Clinton and 43 did it from the Oval Office, nobody thought they were wrong to address America that way, in it's own way, I think doing so carries more weight because it addresses the severity of the decision, instead of the background noise of clapping or watching the reactions of those staged behind him. It took him @ 4 months to make this decision, that means he took the time to weigh all of the options, there is no need for the staging of this decision. Come out and say this is my decision, and this is our plan, end of subject. I am the President. What is the true need to do it at WP? Is it because the Army is carrying the brunt and he wants to show that they are behind him?

    You may want to say that the two can be separated, but by going to WP he entwined them together. It appears to me he is trying to sell an image to America, it seems that having WP cadets behind him will send a message. Then again, he could have done it cheaper...Ft Belvoir (Army), Quantico (Marines...and where Marine 1 is at), Andrews (AF and where AF1 is at) are all within eye shot from the WH. Sorry, but for Obama to go to WP, I see this as nothing more than political staturing and he is using the cadets.

    Back on topic, the real question that I hope will be answered tonight is his decision as CIC regarding how we address Afghanistan. We may agree or disagree with Bush and the invasions, but I think the fact that he never placed an end date was right. It was right to surge, look at how far we have come in the pass yrs. We no longer have a death toll count daily. Yes, our troops are still there, but it is much better than it was before the surge. I hope that this will be true for McCrystals plan.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2009
  5. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've heard and read a lot about this issue over the last few days and I too wonder why he chose West Point to announce this months long anticipated partial request by the General he chose to "fix" Afghanistan.

    Here is a great article discussing that perspective:
    http://www.examiner.com/x-6572-NY-O...12d1-Obamas-Afghanistan-speech-Why-West-Point
     
  6. NavIss58

    NavIss58 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Spot on Pima, I happen to agree. This is certainly not a "Town Hall" topic, no photo op req'd.
     
  7. SteveHolt243

    SteveHolt243 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2009
    Messages:
    226
    Likes Received:
    1
    Bush 43 gave his Surge speech at Annapolis in front of the Brigade. You may remember the pictures of the Brigade sleeping while waiting.
     
  8. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    Not to mention the environmental impact / carbon footprint of the jets, helicopters, limos, and everything else required when the President travels.

    Not only will the far-left be upset that he is escalating the troop strength, but Al Gore and the environmentalists must be flogging themselves silly over this unnecessary trip and the carbon credits that will have to be allocated.
     
  9. WAMom68

    WAMom68 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree that the President could have chosen another venue to deliver this message such as the Oval Office or a military base in the DC area. Why he chose West Point, I don’t know (probably based on input from people around him) but, what he is doing is no different than what past presidents have done. I find it offensive that people see this as dirty or unsavory behavior. Just remember that not all of us out here in the USA see our CoC as a terrible leader or unfit to be President.

    If you go back and look through previous discussions when President Bush was in office, I didn’t always agree with him or his decisions but I always RESPECTED his position as CoC. It is the same with our current president. I have yet to see a politician that I back 100% - I doubt I ever will but I don’t understand why we can’t have discussions about politics without name calling and other nastiness. I guess I am expecting too much from fellow Americans.
    I spoke to my son about the President speaking from West Point. He doesn’t feel dirty or used; he knows the realities of politics. I guess being raised in a politically divided household by parents who can have civil political discussions has made him see that we can disagree but still respect other’s opinions.

    I do think our President should have made this decision sooner but I also see that he is not the kind of person to leap before he looks. I respect that he wanted to make the best decision he could and in his mind that required more information. I would rather have a President make an informed decision than just willy-nilly throw our troops at a problem. The way I see it, those people that hate President Obama just because he is ________ (fill in the blank with whatever you want…a democrat, an African-American, not John McCain, etc), would not be happy with whatever decision he makes or how quickly he made it.

    As for me, I am going to do the same thing I have been doing for my entire life: I will love my country, I will support our military in whatever mission they are given, I will vote in every election, and I will work through peaceful and productive means to change things I don’t like in this country.
     
  10. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    I've searched this entire thread, twice, and have yet to find any name calling or nastiness in any post. Can you please elaborate where you see it?

    So your son wasn't one of the cadets mentioned by mom3boys, congrats.

    Perhaps she knows other cadets there?
     
  11. pedro4

    pedro4 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2008
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let me try again

    Without getting deleted. The reason some people might feel "used" is that our President recently told our troops over in Korea that they make for a "nice photo op." Or that he sat in a church for years listening to a preacher who continually criticized his country and its military. Now, when he needs to sell a difficult decision, he seeks out an impressive, and undoubtedly respectful venue in which to do so.

    My primary concern is his policy. By telegraphing a departure date he will insure that villagers sympathetic to our mission will now hedge their bets for when the Taliban fills in behind us. This will make the mission of our troops more difficult, and more servicemen may die as a result. He is doing this for political reasons, and I object when a military decision is affected by political considerations.

    That is all.
     
  12. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2006
    Messages:
    4,826
    Likes Received:
    2
    How quickly we forget. I will tune in tonight and try and catch a napping cadet. :wink:
    I don't recall the press then calling it a dramatic backdrop. They probably did though. Certainly it was political, as was his carrier landing declaration of "mission accomplished".
    Why shouldn't a President use the media to his advantage? Teddy Roosevelt figured out how to do it and President have done it ever since.

    I can't figure out why he picked West Point and not Ft Bragg.
    Breaking news this afternoon was his plan has us exiting in three years. IF that holds true then most of the cadets at West Point today won't be involved.

    (pedro4 - much better)
     
  13. WAMom68

    WAMom68 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    Luigi – I was not referring to just this thread, but stating
    is nastiness to me. I realize that not everyone agrees with me and that is fine as long as YOU remember I have a right to my opinion as well.

    I can find several examples of name calling and nastiness regarding our President in other threads. I am not going to go back and point them out for you because I don’t have the time and because I am sure you have a different opinion then me (see above).

    I realize some members know cadets other than my son. I was just pointing out that there may be more than one opinion about this among the Corp of Cadets. But thank you so much for your sarcastic remark.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,800
    Likes Received:
    932
    Steve, yes he did it at Annapolis, do you realize how short of a car ride that is from the WH compared to WP? Just a little longer than going to Quantico...no airlift to needed to get the limo's there. Additionally, we were not in this economic downturn.

    I am with WAMOM, whatever his decision is, I will support him fully. It is his decision as CIC, and regardless of my political perspective, OUR COUNTRY elected him and we must give that support if for no other reason than to show our troops we are behind them. This not like the tax debate, healthcare, TARP.. Stimulus or the deficit, lives are at risk. Families are being separated, they need to know that 100% of Americans are on board for this mission. To accomplish that we need to place politics aside and get on the same boat going in the same direction.

    We can all still debate the "photo op" of this address or why it took so long for the decision, but there should be no debate when it comes to his decision. None of us ran are in his position, none of us are privy to his level of info, we all need to trust that he will make the best decision for America and our troops.
     
  15. jscam87

    jscam87 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    223
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not to tell anybody what to watch, but FOX News is doing a nice job blending the news with small snippets of West Point. Cadets walking to class, etc. I keep flipping channels, but that is what I am seeing-not anywhere else. And truth be told, BESIDES the ramifications of who and where, I like it that ARMY is getting some good press. Normally the nation only gets a peek during the Army/NAVY game. Call me selfish, but I like what I have seen (OK, with FOX). Shepard Smith just mentioned how they were the Number 1 school in the nation. Nice.
     
  16. AF6872

    AF6872 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2007
    Messages:
    2,868
    Likes Received:
    237
    Current leaked reports show Marines "Tip Of The Spear" as usual. Deployed within four weeks, start of winter. Not exactly great combat weather in Afghanistan. All combat casualty reports will immediately go down with no weather related reports. Troop increase and casualty decrease will indicate decision was show of great military minds in the White House. Come Spring we might have a different story. By then they will declare it over and we will have withdrawn.
     
  17. NavIss58

    NavIss58 Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2009
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    we agree more than we disagree WAMom68. My point only is that I disagree with his 'town hall' type of new conference for the delivery of this information. My personal opinion is that this type of discussion should come from the Oval Office, by the Commander In Chief, not a politician on the campaign trail. That's only my opinion. Maybe he's just more comfortable in that format. Besides, it will make jscam proud! : )

    I'll still watch and listen carefully to him, what ever he says and where ever he says it from.
     
  18. WAMom68

    WAMom68 Founding Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,144
    Likes Received:
    0
    I do agree with you about location. As proud as I am of West Point I don't think he needed to go up there for this speech. Once that decision was made, even though I didn't like it, I decided to get over it. I haven't made up my mind about his plan because I haven't heard it yet...only what has been fed to the media.
     
  19. Maximus

    Maximus Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2008
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    0
  20. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    4,628
    Likes Received:
    5
    I believe his speech at that time (Nov 2005) was about a withdraw timetable of troops from Iraq, not a surge. You can read the speech here.

    The "surge" speech (Jan 2007) was given from the White House library.
     

Share This Page