3Q NWL vs NWL

Discussion in 'Military Academy - USMA' started by wiscogirl, Feb 3, 2015.

  1. wiscogirl

    wiscogirl Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2014
    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    19
    I'm relatively confused about the difference between the NWL that approximately 150 candidates are appointed from and the 3Q letter i recieved in December stating that everyone is on the NWL.
     
  2. GoBlue1984

    GoBlue1984 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2012
    Messages:
    284
    Likes Received:
    3
    Everyone that is 3Q and Nominated is put on the NWL. Without a Nomination, you cannot be appointed so you are just 3Q.

    Some with nominations will win an MOC slate and come off the list. Others will not win an MOC slate. Those who do not win a slate are ranked high to low by WCS. The highest 150 are automatically offered appointments. Admissions can then select whoever they want from the remaining candidates skipping over higher WCS candidates to pick candidates with lower WCS in order to balance out the class composition (diversity and otherwise) to meet the needs of the Army.

    Your letter basically indicates you are somewhere in that ranked order.
     
  3. Sledge

    Sledge Member

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2014
    Messages:
    614
    Likes Received:
    324
    Everyone that is 3Q'd goes to the NWL. Then, Admissions determines the winners of each congressional slate, either by principal nomination or high WCS. So, that could be anywhere from ~500 slots to ~669 slots (if you assume the 535 MOC's has an average of 1.25 slots/year - but the 669 number is really too high because some MOC's don't nominate anybody and some end up not having anybody that is 3Q'd).

    In any event, after those 550-600 MOC slate winner slots are determined, then "by law," Admissions must choose at least 150 more candidates that have Congressional nominations (but did not win their particular slate) and appoint them. Now, you're up to maybe 750 appointees (~600 + the 150 non-winners) that all had a congressional nomination. That's going to be over half the class. I assume Congress did this to maintain its authority in the admissions process. Otherwise, West Point could use Presidential nominations (service related - limited by law to an average of 100 slots per class) and Secretary of the Army nominations to appoint more than half the class. It's almost like a Constitutional separation of powers issue.
     
    Kansaskid1 likes this.
  4. 2018midmom

    2018midmom Member

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2013
    Messages:
    301
    Likes Received:
    68
    Not a separation of powers issue but possibly a use of the Appointments Clause to keep an eye on the military and make sure all districts were represented in the newly formed service academies-which happened to be the primary/only method of officer training. Remember the times-worries about treason, mutiny, militias, governments being overthrown by their military. It was more likely a check/balance to keep the military under the control of the government by selection of its officers while giving a fair representation to each state in the officer make up of each military "department" (Dept of the Army, Dept of the Navy).

    See my post on the appointment question thread.
     
  5. rammac99

    rammac99 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    So what happens to candidates that are on the NWL who are below the top 150? For instance, there wil be a number 151. If the admissions board selects candidates with lower WCS than say number 151, what happens to that person? Do they get a rejection letter and what does their rejection letter say in regards to why they were rejected? What does the Academy say in regards to their deficiencies when the Adnission board knowingly selected a lower WCS verses a higher WCS?

    Two further points. It would seem that rejecting a candidate of higher WCS verses accepting a candiate of lower WCS would be a disservice and misrepresentation to the higher WCS of their worth/material value to the service. Second, it would seem to be a substantial waste of valuable human capital to the service. If those individuals whose packets make to the Admissions board represent the cream of the crop (and I understand that not everyone can make it in), what/why would they just let those not making it in just walk away?
     
  6. 845something

    845something Member

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2013
    Messages:
    739
    Likes Received:
    166
    QNS = qualified but not selected. Happens all the time. Yes 201 could make it but not 151 because 201 has something that 151 doesn't and the admissions committee wants it for the class. The names of the QNS get passed along to ROTC (many are then offered a scholarship), and if they are close, usually the RC will reach out to them about applying again the next year.
     
  7. mom3boys

    mom3boys Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2007
    Messages:
    1,886
    Likes Received:
    232
    .
    This is exactly what happened to DS. It is a 3 year ROTC scholarship. We're hoping this year DS is in the top 150....the waiting is killing me. He's much calmer about it, as he's happy at plan B...but knows he'd be thrilled if he were to be appointed.
     
  8. nukepharm

    nukepharm Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2014
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    179
    My DS has not received a 3Q letter and we don't see it anywhere in the portal. If he hasn't been sent a letter telling him he is not being selected yet is it safe to assume he is 3Q'd? I saw earlier in the forum where some regions don't send these out?
    Also, I know I have seen this asked before, but can't find it... If he has a Presidential nom, but isn't one of the 100 selected does he go to the NWL assuming he is 3Q'd?
    Thanks!
     
  9. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    263
    He may or may not receive a 3Q letter. The best way to find out is to ask his FFR, if he has one.

    Yes, he will go on the NWL.
     
  10. rammac99

    rammac99 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does anyone know if the QNS individuals are offered a slot at either Npss or one of the foundation schools?
     
  11. rammac99

    rammac99 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I mistyped my last message, I meant Naps or foundation school. Does anyone know how many slots are available at naps or the foundation schools?
     
  12. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    263
    Since those are USNA terms, you probably would get better responses on the USNA forum.
     
  13. rammac99

    rammac99 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    You are correct. Sorry for the mistake. Is there the equivalent for MA? Our son received appointments to both MA and NA. I got lost in the acronyms.
     
  14. rammac99

    rammac99 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not appointments, I meant nominations
     
  15. buff81

    buff81 Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2008
    Messages:
    2,645
    Likes Received:
    263
    To use West Point lingo - they call their prep school USMAPS ('use-maps').
    You have to be academically DQ'd to go to USMAPS, which would exclude anyone who is QNS.
    QNS = Fully Qualified, Not Selected.
    To be QNS you have to be 3Q'd which means you are 'Academically Qualified'.
    Therefore, you can not go to USMAPS if you are QNS.
     
    Dixieland likes this.
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,547
    Likes Received:
    1,009
    buff81 is, of course, correct. I got a bit confused in my response. Must be all the Valentine love flowing through me! :D I went ahead and deleted my incorrect post.
     
  17. rammac99

    rammac99 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Buff81, thank you for the correct terms related to West Point. So if you are QNS, it would appear you are at a disadvantage verses those who are DQ'd and eligible for a usmaps school if the assumption that anyone attending a usmaps school will get in to West Point the next year (if they meet school expectations and don't make mistakes.) So does being QNS status leave an individual "damaged goods" from a military standpoint and that individual realistically needs to seriously consider career options other than the military? Am I reading between the lines correctly on this one?
     
  18. MemberLG

    MemberLG Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2011
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    444
    Not really. Candidates that are considered for USMAPS are under represented minorities, soldiers, and recruited athletes. QNS are considered from civil prep, although fewer than USMAPS slots. Also, I believe only academic DQs are considered for USMAPS.

    West Point QNS has little impact with the ROTC. I was told that West Point provides list of QNS to Armrest ROTC for scholarship consideration.
     

Share This Page