3YR AD commitment?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by laxmom8, Apr 14, 2012.

  1. laxmom8

    laxmom8 Member

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    I have a few questions about the 3YR AD scholarship.

    1. I understand that they enroll in AROTC the first year and the scholarship starts second year if they meet standard requirements. If they decide in the first year that it is not what they want(unlikely for my DS), do they owe anything back to the Army? Can they give up the scholarship without recoup or enlistment? It seems obvious that they would not owe anything, but I want to make sure, especially after reading the thread about the kid who owes $150 after disenrollment.

    2. Is he contracted with the Army beginning second year?

    3. Is Army commitment the same (4yrs AD, then 4 yrs reserve/NG) as it is for a four year scholarship?

    Thanks for your help!
     
  2. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    The 3yr. scholarship puts your DS in a competitve situation for a contract fall of his sophomore year. The SMP, walk-on and 3yr AD cadets are all pursuing the fall contracts available within the batallion. These contracts are decreasing so what will be available at any school is a guessing game at best.

    The contract stays the same as for service time, as far as I have been informed(have seen a copy of contract my DS might be offered in the fall of 2012).

    The only funds DS would owe ROTC would be for lost or willfully damaged equipment/uniforms. Yes, this even includes socks....:shake: This may vary by school/batallion.

    Saw on the other threads that your DS has been receiving amazing news with his schools and choices, congrats to you both!!!
     
  3. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    incorrect...you are going to contract sophomore year unless you don't meet the requirements and will contract at the beginning of sophomore year.
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    So, I have a question.

    My son's battalion has a MS1 class size that the PMS has said is within the number of expected contracts so there has not been to much mentioned about competing for contracts.

    The Battalion at the University just a few miles away is a different story, they have more MS1's then the cadre said they hace contracts for. The cadre at that school has told the MS1 cadets that they will all be competing for the contracts equally, SMP's, 3yr AD's, and non contracted cadets based on a class OML. This always seemed a bit strange given that non scholarship cadets can't contract until their junior year leaving only the SMP and 3yr AD cadets qualified to contract the beginning their sophomore year.

    Is this not the case, are some battalions, for a lack of a better term, just motivating the 3yr AD's by telling them they may not contract even if they meet the minimums but are not high enough on the cadres OML.

    Is it an official policy that if a 3yr AD meets all the minimums the contract requires during the MS! year they are guaranteed a contract the beginning of their sophomore year.

    I'm only asking because there has been a lot of talk on this board and among cadets that the 3 year AD is not much of a guarantee of a contract. It would be great if you could clear some of that up since it looks like a majority of scholarships this board look to be 3yr AD.

    One other question, in your opinion do you think CC is done offering scholarships for this year.
     
  5. laxmom8

    laxmom8 Member

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    If the 3yrAD scholarship did not guarantee a contract( if the requirements were met) then there would be no advantage to applying for one and no reason to accept it. Correct? Or when you are non scholarship and then contract, do you still pay tuition, etc for the rest of your education?
     
  6. gojack

    gojack ....

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    The 3yr AD scholarship does guarantee a contract, if conditions are met

    Hope that helps
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I tend to follow what Clarkson has to say on these subjects.

    There is a huge advantage to applying and receiving a 3yr AD scholarship.

    A 3yr AD cadet that contracts their sophomore year will now receive full tuition, book money and the stipend.

    For non scholarship cadets a contract comes with no tuition or book money. The only payments would be the stipend. Non scholarship cadets can't contract until their junior year.

    My guess is that unless a 3yr AD cadet really messes up their first year they are most likely going to contract their sophomore year.

    Ohio has talked about the situation at her son's school where there are many more MS1's then contracts available, it will be interesting to see how that battalion handles the contracts for those eligible their sophomore year.

    You are correct, if a 3yr AD cadet leaves the program prior to contracting they do not owe any obligation to the Army.

    A 3yr AD scholarship is a great award, 3 years tuition, 3 years book money, a clear path to commissioning as long as you fulfill the contract.
     
  8. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I think Guarantee is too strong a word.

    A cadet can just squeak by with the minimums and still be in compliance with the contract.

    The cadet still needs the recommendation of the PMS to be contracted, I think this is where the guarantee would come into question.
     
  9. laxmom8

    laxmom8 Member

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    Thanks to everyone for the information. I am so happy that I found this message board to help us navigate through all of this. Such an important decision, so it's nice to be able to ask questions and get practical advice from those who have been through it or have first hand knowledge of the system. :thumb:

    I have to say, after reading the posts about disenrollment, recouping, or enlisting, I have become a bit nervous about the whole thing. I know my son wants to be an officer and wants to serve in the Army, but it sounds like with all of the cuts and downsizing, you could easily work hard and get to the end of four years and have it all disappear. (except the college degree) I guess if it's important, you roll the dice and hope for the best. I hope that all ROTC hopefuls will sit down with their offers, really weigh out the pros and cons and make a well informed decision. This site is the perfect place to ask the nitty gritty questions and get honest answers. So, forgive my constant ramble and thanks in advance for reading and responding to my questions!

    P.S. Just checked the mail and still NO BFE! Argh!! Hopefully Monday we will see what the offers really are.

    :smile:
     
  10. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    I sent you a PM
     
  11. clarksonarmy

    clarksonarmy Recruiting Operations Officer at Clarkson Army

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    I'll have to take a closer look at the reg to make sure I'm not incorrect,

    http://www.montana.edu/wwwarmy/pdf/Contract and Scholarship Forms/CC Form 167R.pdf

    Here is what the offer accept/decline form looks like. Pay attention to the right side, and the statement at the bottom where you sign (regarding major).

    cc regulation 145-1 is the reg (google it if you really want to have way to much information). I think technically a PMS could recommend that the cadet not be validated, but in my mind, as long as the cadet meets the requirements and hasn't shown themselves to be profoundly not Officer material they should be contracted at the beginning of sophomore year.
     
  12. Ohio2015Parent

    Ohio2015Parent Member

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    Sorry to have posted inaccurate information. DS's batallion currently has no 3yr ADs in the MS1 class, however, at a prospective cadet program the MS1s were encourage to attend the PMS stated in the event 3 yr AD offers were extended to the 2012 applicants that they would also be subject to the internal OML. The situation at DS's school may be out of the norm, but perhaps since they tend to have very large SMP participation it makes sense for them.

    Also, contracts with the military seem to have many twists and turns...example, DS joined the Guard and was told he would be paid for all weekend drills, well, budget cuts hit and now he is only paid 1/2 drill pay. The explanation was that now they cannot pay Phase 1 drill pay for more than 3-6 months to any recruit and since DS would be attending 11 drills from entry date until reporting to BCT he could not draw full pay at the remaining drills. This change happened in December and sure enough, he gets 1/2 pay. I told him to suck it up since he is receiving tuition assistance from the guard.

    Do read and understand the contracts, if I was in the position of OP I would encourage your DS to speak with the PMS at all schools offered and see what their decision making is based on for validating his scholarship. The boards have been busy with threads about disenrollment, denied waivers and all the other hazards between our kids and the commission they seek. The scholarships are good, the contract is great but until they commission it is all up in the air.
     
  13. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Re: Chance of not validating a 3 Yr. AD Scholarship Award:

    I have been on this Board for 18 months, and have also searched "3 Yr. AD" and "3 Year advanced Designee" both on this Board and also Googled those phrases on the Internet.

    I have never seen an occasion where anyone reported that a 3 Yr. AD who met the medical and Program participation requirements, failed to Contract. Of course any cadet, whether 4 Yr, 3 Yr. AD, or non-scholarship can be separated for violations of the Law, or not having passing grades at the school.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  14. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    This happened at my son's battalion last year.

    The cadet in question was within all the regulation requirements of the contract although just barely. APFT around 185 ROTC GPA barely 2.0. I can only relate what my older son had said, this particular cadet would show up just enough to pass the MS classes, had what could be best described as a rotten attitude and was at odds with most the upperclassmen throughout his first year. When it came time for the PMS to sign off on the cadet there was a meeting of the cadre and senior ROTC cadets to discuss the next year. The PMS met with the cadet and after a long meeting he did not recommend him to continue. This cadet has since transferred from the school.

    I think that over the past 7 or 8 years this has not been much of an issue since the ARMY was still recruiting hard for ROTC and they were not cutting back. I would assume there were not too many cases in the past where this happened. Things seem to be tightening up a lot so we may see more of this in the future.

    Most of the cadets that post here or have parents that post seem to be pretty high speed cadets, I don't doubt that you will not see some if any 3 yr Ad scholarship cadets who are not recommended to continue from this board.
     
  15. goaliedad

    goaliedad Parent

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    Sounds like the cadre did the right thing. There is that clause in the contract that does mention that recommendation of the PMS which I guess a few don't figure out means something.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the rest of the cadets were relieved when he was gone. Doesn't sound like a guy you want covering your backside. One thing that seems to be appearant to me from my daughter's experience is that the cadets who aren't 100% in either drop or are pushed aside by the cadre.

    Strangely enough, I think it is the ones who read the contract casually who have the biggest problem. 180 PFT, 2.0, Pass MS100 ^= good to go. The ones who don't read it at all (and subsequently just work their rears off because they are all-in) do just fine. The ones who read every last detail probably become so paranoid :sofa: that they can't perform. Don't get me wrong, you need to understand the rules of the game, but you also have to accept that they are being applied fairly and that the rules are meant for your betterment and to just do as much as you can to be as qualified as you can.
     
  16. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    ^ I should have added that any cadet, 4 Yr., 3 Yr. AD, or non scholarship can also be separated for "bad attitude". that is not a particular issue to having a 3 Yr. AD.
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    It gets a bit sticky for a battalion to release a contracted cadet for a less then stellar attitude if they are abiding by all the requirements of the signed contract. That's not saying the cadet would receive a less then favorable rating from the PMS on their OMS score, which would probably lead to said cadet not getting Active Duty or the Branch they desire.

    The 3 year AD gives the PMS the lattitude to cut the cadet loose before the contract is singed, I would agree that this probably does not happen that often, but it does give the PMS that option.

    With what seems to be more cadets receiving 3 year AD's this year it seems like the PMS's will get a good chance to test drive the new cadets for a year to see how they perform.
     
  18. mariner116

    mariner116 Member

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    One other point to keep in mind is that the PMS who gives you the 3-year AD may not be the PMS that decides whether to approve your contract. PMS's seem to change about every 2 years (and it can be less than that if the Army needs the PMS for something else).
     

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