7 mids expelled from USNA over Spice

Unfortunately these 7 are likely the first to go for this. My Mid mentioned this to me over Christmas break. The ringleader was a Firsty and he was apprehended in early December. The kid had detailed records who he sold to and sang like a song bird to avoid prosecution. This incedent involves a large number of mids with signifcant numbers of 1st and 2nd class mids. NCIS is handling the investgation.

My Mid told that one night she had duty and 2 men in suits knocked on the door to the company area. They flashed their NCIS badges for entry. They knew exactly who they wanted to talk to in her company.
 
Off topic for a second. What amount to you is minimal...for an SA degree it is valued near 400K, @ 100K per yr...that is not minimal to me as a parent. I don't have 200K laying around in mutual funds, checking or even home equity line to pay off the penalty because my kid got involved with drugs just to bail them out, let alone legal fees to defend them.
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First off, GAO has determined that the 'value' of the education is somewhere in the neighborhood of 50k per year. The costs of all the training is not an issue here. The first two years are gratis. Payback commences the start of the third year. This is why one sees those who graduate but for one reason or another not commissioned being charged for arund $100,000. Someone who walked out the first day of classes their third year would only owe a small portion of the $50,000 annual value.
 
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MIDNDAD said:
Unfortunately these 7 are likely the first to go for this. My Mid mentioned this to me over Christmas break. The ringleader was a Firsty and he was apprehended in early December. The kid had detailed records who he sold to and sang like a song bird to avoid prosecution. This incedent involves a large number of mids with signifcant numbers of 1st and 2nd class mids. NCIS is handling the investgation.

My Mid told that one night she had duty and 2 men in suits knocked on the door to the company area. They flashed their NCIS badges for entry. They knew exactly who they wanted to talk to in her company.
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Just from general history, I would assume you are correct. Things like this normally involve more than the few who have been initially identified.
 
As my Mid relayed to me the kid ran his spice trade like a business with detailed records of names who he sold to, how much, and when. NCIS and the Academy have the records. As I understand it, it's up to the Academy how far and how many they want to push this to make an example.

All I can say I thanked God that my Mid is not involved. The Mids that are are learning a very harsh lesson: Stupid Hurts
 
Someone who walked out the first day of classes their third year would only owe a small portion of the $50,000 annual value.
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Do you have 10-15-20-25 K just hanging around in your checking account? As a parent of 2 kids in college, one on full ride, financially, that would hurt us. Of course the bigger issue is the cost of hiring a lawyer to defend them, but still even if there was no legal cost, there would be another cost.

It has been stated over and over again on this forum that some kids take the SA apptmt for fiscal reasons to pay for college.

What is minimal to you, may be max to others. You can't get a college loan to payback debt to get you out of the problem. FAFSA will not allow you to take a loan for ly. The only option that is left is to drain the parents account, sell mutuals, or take a personal loan.

Look at our economy, we have 9.4% unemployment, record numbers of foreclosures, and the stock market is just now getting back to where it was in July 08. Even a small amount can hurt.
 
^^^^^^ So someone that voluntarily drops after completing the first semester of their third year pays back 25 k for five semesters of college. $5000 per semester. And they got a paycheck for those five semesters. Could be a lot worse.
 
Yes, they collected a paycheck. How many of them saved every penny JIC they got booted and had to payback? Additionally, maybe I missed something, but they don't get 5K a semester, and even so, 5 semesters equal 2 1/2 yrs, not day 1 on yr 3. Work it out 5 semesters is day 1 spring C2C, not fall.

That throws your position of 1st day as a C2C out the window regarding repayment.

If I am correct, the last time you dealt with college tuition was back in the 90's. A lot has changed in 2 decades. College tuition for IS as an OOS can be 40K. Private for an equivalent SA education can be 50K per yr.

Cadets are kids, they don't squirrel every penny away in case they have to re-pay it back... they buy X box games, go to movies, fill the gas tank of their cars. Parents who have cadets don't keep putting money aside in case they have to re-pay it back because they screw up in the future. They stop investing and believe that all is good because they cleared that hurdle for college. Again because of a 9.4% unemployment rate and over 1 million homeowners in foreclosure money is being moved around just to survive. FYI, we are not one of them, but as a realtor and someone who owns 2 homes, I have seen the impact 1st hand from an economical position.

I pity you for not grasping how hard it is for the avg family in today's economy when it comes to paying for college. It is not a cake walk. 25K impacts the avg family. Glad to know you think that it is easy to come by writing a 25K check. Can you adopt my family?

You are right it can be a lot worse...facing prison is a lot worse, but we weren't discussing prison were we, we were discussing the fact that every one should have 25K hanging out easily accessible JIC their kid is stupid.

Tell me, as a USNA cadet did you walk out with every penny they ever paid you over 4 yrs? 2 yrs, 25K, = 12.5 a yr, or 1000 a month after taxes. Did I skip a beat, are cadets now taking home 1K a month after taxes?

Aren't you the same poster that is all for diversity? Do you think that low income family can find 25K?

FWIW, Bullet will tell you when he went to CGSC PME as a sister service, day one they gave them a tour at Leavenworth. I will never forget they told him the number 1 reason for military prisoners were DRUGS. No.2 I believe was Porn at al.
 
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^^^^^^^Hard to hit a moving target. I was simply attempting to continue your "10-15-20-25 K" example. The SecNav/OpNav Insts 1532.7 series which delineates all of this apparently is in rework and unavailable on the internet. Therefore I am not sure if or how they prorate partial semesters. All the examples I have ever witnessed are Midshipmen, not cadets, who have completed a semester and the payback is in multiples of $25,000. My guess is that midsemester withdrawals receive that semester gratis since they have no real gain. Therefore my guess is that someone who walked out the day after class began their second class year would not owe the government anything. Even if it were prorated on a daily basis, for one day it would be $136.99. This sum was the source of my 'no big deal' comment.

However, back to the five semesters for $25,000. Thanks for the great examples to show that this is, in deed, a good deal. I'm sure there are those students now who would love to cut their college loans to $25,000. The Navy is not an ogre. They will work the repayment on a not to interfere basis with continued education. So he gets a part time job, goes to the local college, takes three years to graduate, and then has a total of 25 k in 'student' loans which I am relatively certain are zero interest and based on ability to pay. There are a lot of kids out there fresh out of college in a lot worse shape financially.
 
Folks, a reminder that how USNA or the federal government determines the amount of tuition, if any, that must be repaid, is really not worth the effort that is being expended and the vitriol that is being generated on the topic.

And, a to whether mids discharged for this offense or their families have that amount sitting around . . . sorry, but I can't say that I have much sympathy. At USNA and in the military in general, you're told the rules and the consequences many times -- if you choose to violate the rules, you pay the consequences, which well may be financially painful for those involved.
 
I concur 1985, the point is they were informed of the rules, they broke the rules, end of subject.
 
Goes to show the admission process at USNA is not perfect-assumming these 7 are guilty as charged. The US Navy doesn't need individuals who would choose to destroy their body/ health with designer drugs as well as who choose to dishonor the rules and regulations of the academy. No evidence of leadership here- just disrepect for the Navy and self
 
The Brigade mirrors today's culture and society, granted, a far higher quality cut in terms of high school and other achievements, but many of the "expellees" undoubtedly had the shining applications, strong recommendations, stellar interviews, pristine conduct records, and are the pride of their families and had never put a foot wrong - until they did this bonehead thing. They are away from home, the pack mentality kicks in, they think they won't get caught, nothing really bad has ever happened to them before and - boom - good mids do bad things. Hubris plays a role for many of them.

I don't think the Admissions process is perfect, but it does do a pretty good job of weeding out those who were caught doing bad stuff in high school or the Fleet/Corps. What it can't do is predict the Bonehead Propensity Quotient any particular appointee is going to exhibit during their four years.

I can't tell you how many times I talked to parents as a Battalion Officer who were absolutely gobsmacked their son or daughter would do the bad thing that they did. There were many, many heartbreaking stories of good mids who did the bonehead thing of a seriousness sufficient to earn separation, court-martial, delayed graduation, etc.

Yes, there are truly bad eggs through and through, who looked no different on paper than their classmates, but there are those usually good mids who do the bad thing, even if just once - and that's enough to bring the serious consequences.

I have no doubt the SA grads on here can recall bonehead or almost-bonehead things they did or contemplated doing in an unthinking moment, but weren't caught, as well as good classmates who did, and paid a severe price.
 
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I can tell you one thing...no matter what the dollar amount required, I WOULD NOT be helping my kid with the payback if he were in on this mess!
 
MIDNDAD said:
As my Mid relayed to me the kid ran his spice trade like a business with detailed records of names who he sold to, how much, and when. NCIS and the Academy have the records. As I understand it, it's up to the Academy how far and how many they want to push this to make an example.

All I can say I thanked God that my Mid is not involved. The Mids that are are learning a very harsh lesson: Stupid Hurts
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If so, the kid was a drug dealer. That goes beyond way beyond foolish impulsiveness common to the 18-25 year-old set. That shows planning and careful execution of the plan. :thumbdown:
 
MomoftheMagik said:
I can tell you one thing...no matter what the dollar amount required, I WOULD NOT be helping my kid with the payback if he were in on this mess!
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Thank you! I kept thinking the same thing as I was reading the comments of how hard it would be for the family to pay back....ummmm no. I can offer advice - that is free. But, my hard-earned money for your foolishness? No. As a matter of fact when this story broke, I took the opportunity to remind my son..."This is Your Life."
 
Plebe is the 8th Midshipman Expelled for "Spice"
http://www.navytimes.com/news/2011/02/navy-naval-academy-expelled-plebe-spice-022411w/

The Naval Academy has expelled an eighth midshipman for use and possession of the marijuana-like designer drug spice, in connection with a wide-ranging investigation that began last fall.
The former midshipman was a male plebe, as academy freshmen are known, according to academy spokeswoman Deborah Goode. Goode declined Thursday to go into any details on the student or the progress of the investigation, citing privacy concerns.
Seven midshipmen were kicked out of the school in January, after a midshipman tipped off academy officials last fall to spice usage in the brigade.
“USNA has a ‘zero tolerance’ drug use policy. Spice in particular has a devastating effect on students who need to study and retain knowledge,” Superintendent Vice Adm. Michael Miller said in a statement. “While the Navy is rapidly improving its detection methods, confirming spice use typically requires extensive investigation and corroborating evidence.”
Miller said the investigation remains ongoing.
Spice is a banned substance in the Navy, but the Drug Enforcement Administration has not prohibited it, and only 18 states have placed any restrictions on its sale. Maryland is not one of them.
Spice, sold under a variety of brand names, is still on sale at convenience stores and smoke shops across the state.
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Just_A_Mom said:
Plebe is the 8th Midshipman Expelled for "Spice"
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And a story this morning from The Washington Post reveals that this scandal may be far more widespread than the 8 expelled so far.

Synthetic marijuana widely used at Naval Academy, some midshipmen say

By Daniel de Vise
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, February 28, 2011; 12:57 AM

A synthetic form of marijuana is widely used at the U.S. Naval Academy because it cannot be detected in routine drug tests, according to several former midshipmen who have been removed from campus for using or possessing the substance.

Since its introduction at the academy last year, synthetic marijuana has become popular among rank-and-file midshipmen and on the football and wrestling teams, the former midshipmen said. Some isolated corners of the historic Annapolis campus, they said, have become well-known gathering spots for smoking it.​

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/27/AR2011022703605.html
 
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