7 Ways the Military is Wasting Money

[MemberLG]

. . . I have never understood why the units couldn't just loan a few junior enlisted to man the gates on a rotating schedule (even with deployments)....

That will work if you only want these junior ennlisted soldiers to check ID cards.

The Army published/updated a regulation about what a facility "guards" supposed to do, quite extensive and different levels of training requirements.

I remember seeing juinor enlisted soldiers and sailors, acting as gate guards at Fort Mead after the 911. I think they were only trainined to check ID guards.

What do you do, if the ID card is fake, what do you do if the license tag is expired, what do you do if the driver pulls out a gun?

If we want folks to perform access control only, yeah junior enlisted soldiers on the gate checking ID cards will work, but if we want some security no.

 

[Aglahad]

In most cases, no, units could not simply just "loan out" a few junior enlisted Soldiers.

Interesting, at Ft Carson the CO of the unit I was with said they do it (on a rotation basis) and I have noticed more soldiers lately manning the gates at JBLM that were not MPs.

I understand the point about FORSCOM bases and constant brigade deployments though. It only makes sense to fill personnel gaps with contractors.

 

[Aglahad]

That will work if you only want these junior ennlisted soldiers to check ID cards.

The Army published/updated a regulation about what a facility "guards" supposed to do, quite extensive and different levels of training requirements.

I remember seeing juinor enlisted soldiers and sailors, acting as gate guards at Fort Mead after the 911. I think they were only trainined to check ID guards.

What do you do, if the ID card is fake, what do you do if the license tag is expired, what do you do if the driver pulls out a gun?

If we want folks to perform access control only, yeah junior enlisted soldiers on the gate checking ID cards will work, but if we want some security no.

I just don't understand (and forgive me I am not an expert on Army logistics and personnel command) why gate security courses could not proctored for Army/AF MP units to man the gates. Is there not enough MP manpower on most bases to place 1-2 soldier on each main/auxiliary gates (JBLM has 6-7 gates that come to mind if I include the McChord side)? I am not upset about contractors as the military has used them ad nauseum since the War On Terrorism, but I just don't understand what makes their security skillset unique. Maybe I am missing some ethereal security work going down when they stand in front of a heater and half ass check my ID card, all the while pulling in 30-35 an hour plus night differentials and overtime. I don't think my ID card has been scanned once for authenticity, not even at random (and they have scanners sitting in their huts)

Was this Army report just issued as some form substantiation to confirm why we needed civilian security (via a lobbyist group)?

 

[GoArmyBeatNavy]

I just don't understand (and forgive me I am not an expert on Army logistics and personnel command) why gate security courses could not proctored for Army/AF MP units to man the gates. Is there not enough MP manpower on most bases to place 1-2 soldier on each main/auxiliary gates (JBLM has 6-7 gates that come to mind if I include the McChord side)? I am not upset about contractors as the military has used them ad nauseum since the War On Terrorism, but I just don't understand what makes their security skillset unique. Maybe I am missing some ethereal security work going down when they stand in front of a heater and half ass check my ID card, all the while pulling in 30-35 an hour plus night differentials and overtime. I don't think my ID card has been scanned once for authenticity, not even at random (and they have scanners sitting in their huts)

Was this Army report just issued as some form substantiation to confirm why we needed civilian security (via a lobbyist group)?

I do not believe that memberLG was talking about MPs, but other MOSs performing the gate guard duty. Any MP is qualified to conduct gate guard duty.

Now, an Infantry Soldier who has 18-24 months between deployments, [including 6-8 weeks of block leave, a month at a training center, a month at a BN/Brigade FTX, a month at Company field training to get to standard on level 10/20 tasks. 2.5 months of weekends and 4 days holidays (all that training mandates time off), time away at Army schools (NCOes, Ranger, LRSLC, warrior leader, Raven operator, airborne, air assault, palet building, etc), 2-3 weeks of AR 350-1 congressionally mandated training (suicide, respect, EO, etc)] and you see that a one to two month stint as a gate guard will hurt the readiness of the unit.

As we draw down from deployments to Afghanistan in 2014, we might see more Soldiers on the gate, but the requirements for gate guard are more intense than they were in the 1990s due to security requirements. Not saying it won't happen, but memberLG brings up important points about the requirements necessary for a gate guard in today's Army.

 

[Aglahad]

I do not believe that memberLG was talking about MPs, but other MOSs performing the gate guard duty. Any MP is qualified to conduct gate guard duty.

Now, an Infantry Soldier who has 18-24 months between deployments, [including 6-8 weeks of block leave, a month at a training center, a month at a BN/Brigade FTX, a month at Company field training to get to standard on level 10/20 tasks. 2.5 months of weekends and 4 days holidays (all that training mandates time off), time away at Army schools (NCOes, Ranger, LRSLC, warrior leader, Raven operator, airborne, air assault, palet building, etc), 2-3 weeks of AR 350-1 congressionally mandated training (suicide, respect, EO, etc)] and you see that a one to two month stint as a gate guard will hurt the readiness of the unit.

As we draw down from deployments to Afghanistan in 2014, we might see more Soldiers on the gate, but the requirements for gate guard are more intense than they were in the 1990s due to security requirements. Not saying it won't happen, but memberLG brings up important points about the requirements necessary for a gate guard in today's Army.

Fair enough, I realize those time constraints are all too common especially at highly active deployment posts We are still a war time army and I know personnel allocations are key. Still, I think the pay is a little exorbitant especially when all the high risk scenarios and alert statuses are managed by the MPs. Perhaps I am just ignorant to what they actually do and to the scope of their duties but in this area that pay is considered very very good and the amount of work compared to other jobs making that kind of cash is very disproportionate.

37 (diff average not including overtime which I am sure is used often) an hour x 12 hour shift x 4 days a week x 4 weeks a month x 12 months= roughly 83k a year which is close to 0-3 pay. Not bad for guarding a gate.

I know this is a little thing (with respect to the DoD budget) but I hope in 2014 more changes are made.

 

[GoArmyBeatNavy]

Fair enough, I realize those time constraints are all too common especially at highly active deployment posts We are still a war time army and I know personnel allocations are key. Still, I think the pay is a little exorbitant especially when all the high risk scenarios and alert statuses are managed by the MPs. Perhaps I am just ignorant to what they actually do and to the scope of their duties but in this area that pay is considered very very good and the amount of work compared to other jobs making that kind of cash is very disproportionate.

37 (diff average not including overtime which I am sure is used often) an hour x 12 hour shift x 4 days a week x 4 weeks a month x 12 months= roughly 83k a year which is close to 0-3 pay. Not bad for guarding a gate.

I know this is a little thing (with respect to the DoD budget) but I hope in 2014 more changes are made.

I am unsure of their cost to benefit but one of them pulled my wife over the other day and gave her "points" for speeding. Enough points and she can be kept off base. Not sure of the requirements but I have seen them being used for more than just gate guards. Still, I can definitely understand the worries about their pay.

Still, I cannot speak to whether their compensation levels are fair or not. If they are truly "contracted" than not having to pay for their health care and pension on the back end might be worth it instead of hiring extra MPs.

 

[scoutpilot]

I just don't understand (and forgive me I am not an expert on Army logistics and personnel command) why gate security courses could not proctored for Army/AF MP units to man the gates. Is there not enough MP manpower on most bases to place 1-2 soldier on each main/auxiliary gates (JBLM has 6-7 gates that come to mind if I include the McChord side)? I am not upset about contractors as the military has used them ad nauseum since the War On Terrorism, but I just don't understand what makes their security skillset unique. Maybe I am missing some ethereal security work going down when they stand in front of a heater and half ass check my ID card, all the while pulling in 30-35 an hour plus night differentials and overtime. I don't think my ID card has been scanned once for authenticity, not even at random (and they have scanners sitting in their huts)

Was this Army report just issued as some form substantiation to confirm why we needed civilian security (via a lobbyist group)?

This is a good lesson for whatever leadership role you may encounter in your career. You've just fallen into the worst trap of military training: "We can just fit this in real quick someplace."

As GoArmy pointed out, the "white space" on the calendar is slim. Everyone is trying to just "fit something in" somewhere. When all is said and done, we find ourselves cramming in everything from 350-1 training to PME to vehicle maintenance, NCOES, etc. and so forth ad nauseum. I literally bristled when I read "I just don't understand why gate security courses could not proctored for Army/AF MP units to man the gates" because that is the mantra of every guy at higher echelons who's trying to make you do more with less. We run our people into the ground with extra requirements, and training becomes and afterthought. Soldiers need to be trained first, educated second, and tasked out third. Unfortunately we find ourselves doing just the opposite.

 

[MemberLG]

Maybe I am missing some ethereal security work going down when they stand in front of a heater and half ass check my ID card, all the while pulling in 30-35 an hour plus night differentials and overtime. I don't think my ID card has been scanned once for authenticity, not even at random (and they have scanners sitting in their huts)

You are not missing anything that's on the surface.

One of the jobs I held was an installation security specailist (close to it).

First, the guards you are observing are acting as "access control." Not security guards. Them not using the ID scanner or half ass checking your ID card is contract/leadership failure. It might have changed, but the standard used to be close examination of ID card to detect fake.

As for the pay, when I did a contract for my installation, it was something like $20 or $25 hourly in Maryland about 5 years ago. If I wanted contract guards to be proficient in certain things, the rate went up. So depends on the local market condition, $30 to $35 might be it. Many cases, contract guards are cheaper as don't have to worry about paying benefits or hiring extra full time guards to cover leave and calling sick, and can adjust hours.