Academic Ratings

Discussion in 'Publicly and Privately Funded Military Colleges' started by ajwilliams96, Jan 1, 2012.

  1. ajwilliams96

    ajwilliams96 Member

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    Which of the six U.S. Senior Military Colleges (North Georgia College & State University, Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University, Texas A&M University, Virginia Military Institute, The Citadel, and Norwich University) has the highest academic rating?
     
  2. Dkr626

    Dkr626 Member

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    It depends on your major. Texas A&M and Virginia Tech will typically receive the highest rankings in most cases.
     
  3. bruno

    bruno Retired Staff Member

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    ??
    These are completely different kinds of Schools: However, I am not sure where Dkr626 gets that as I don't believe that it is true. How do you rate schools? For example if you buy into the USNWR rankings:
    National Liberal Arts Colleges: (offer only undergraduate degrees and are primarily teaching institutions)
    For perspective: 0f approximately 275-300 rated schools in this category(I didn't count them all) ; Williams is #1; USMA and USNA are tied at #14; USAFA#33 and VMI #71.
    In National Universities:(Offer Graduate degrees and include essentially nonteaching faculty who spend most if not allof their time in research) Again there are around 300 in this category:
    #1 Harvard/Princeton
    #25 UVA
    #58- Texas A&M
    #71 VaTech
    Norwch, Citadel and North Georgia are listed as Regional Universities and are ranked in those categories.
    All of which is really pretty darn subjective and the categories are so fragmented that you have to ask- what is the point of all of those rankings??You would be much better served by asking: What is my academic life going to be like at Different Schools?
    For example VMI is strictly an undergraduate college with 1500 students and a 54% acceptance ratio. The faculty to Student ratio is 11-1 with 96% of the faculty possessing a PHD - all of whom are teaching faculty exclusively and something like 70% of the classes will have less than 20 students in a class and virtually none have more than 30 students.70% of admitted Students graduate in 4 years. 2 Cadets have received Rhodes scholarships in the past 10 years and 12 total. Similarly The Citadel and Norwich are mostly undergraduate teaching institutions with low faculty /Student ratios and small class sizes.

    How does that compare with schools like Texas A&M ( #58 in the University rankings) which has 39,000 resident undergraduates,an acceptance ratio of 70%; a a student faculty ratio of 19-1 with 22% of classes >than 50 students and 60% >20 students? and only 46% admitted graduate in 4 years. 5 Texas A&M students have been selected in total for Rhodes Scholarshis- none in the last 10 years. Virginia Tech has 23,000 undergraduates, a 67% acceptance rate and a 17-1 faculty /student ratio. 24% of classes have 20 students or less and 21% have >50 students- 53% graduate in 4 years and 2 Rhodes Scholars.

    Clearly these are pretty different college experiences. The answer to your question is : It depends. There are huge differences that make this a question that virtually any answer could be shaped. Which is better/ higher ranked??. What measure do you value in making your choice?
    -Do you value the number of nationally recognized faculty members with an almost unlimited number of majors available to you? ? Then a large National University might be what you are looking for. But, those faculty members might not be teaching undergraduate classes or you may have them in a huge survey class. Conversely- if you are mostly interested in an academic environment that is focused on the undergraduate/faculty interaction,teaching and personal mentoring: then a small principally undergraduate college is probably more to your choosing.
    Bottom line: It really depends on what you are looking for in your undergraduate education and experience.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2012
  4. Lawman32RPD

    Lawman32RPD Member

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    I didn’t attend any of these institutions but our daughter is now a FISH (Freshman)at TAMU. I think Bruno is right, it really depends on what you want. Our daughter looked very hard at VMI and spent the night with the Corps there. The son of a friend of mine (a Naval Academy graduate) is currently a RAT at VMI. VMI has some outstanding statistics of its own, the highest per capita endowment of any public college or university, and a placement rate of around 98% within 6 months of graduation (meaning finding a job or going to graduate school). I don’t think the value of direct access to professors who are concentrating on teaching can be overemphasized.

    TAMU and its Corps of Cadets is a different type of experience. The Fish there live an austere lifestyle compared to the non-regs (non Corps members) on campus. Both Fish and “Pissheads” (sophomores) have mandatory study halls Sunday through and including Thursdays during the academic year. TAMU is large, just under 50,000 students on the main campus if graduate students are counted. The Corps, while the largest in decades, is small by comparison, a little over 2,100 cadets with the largest Fish class in a long time. TAMU offers students about 800 recognized student organizations. For the class of 2015 there were around 30,000 applications for about 8,000 spots.

    All that said, TAMU does offer some outstanding credentials of its own regarding its academic stature.

    ●19th in nation among public universities (U.S. News & World Report, 2011);

    ●2nd in nation among public universities in "Great Schools, Great Prices" category (U.S. News & World Report, 2010)

    ● 2nd in nation for universities from which corporations prefer to hire (Wall Street Journal, 2010)

    ● 4th in nation among public universities for "Employment after Three Months" (Financial Times, 2010)

    ● 3rd in nation for research funding among universities without a medical school

    ● 10th in nation, 2nd among public universities, for number of National Merit Scholars enrolled (National Merit Scholarship Corporation, 2011)

    ● Top 20 nationally for number of doctoral degrees awarded to minority students

    ● Faculty includes several Nobel laureates

    [ Source: http://www.tamu.edu/about/recognitions.html ]

    Overall U.S. News & World Report Rankings

    ●1st in nation among public universities — the biological/agricultural program, operated by the Dwight Look College of Engineering and the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences (U.S. News and World Report, 2010)

    ●9th in nation among public universities — The Dwight Look College of Engineering (U.S. News and World Report, 2009)

    ● 9th in nation among public undergraduate schools — with 8 departments in the top 10 — The Dwight Look College of Engineering (U.S. News and World Report, 2010)

    ● 6th in nation among public graduate schools — with 7 departments in the top 10 — The Dwight Look College of Engineering (U.S. News and World Report, 2010)

    ● 2nd in nation among public universities — Mays Business School's MBA program in "placement after three months" (U.S. News and World Report, 2011)

    ● Mays Business College and Graduate School of Business is ranked in the Top 20 among public universities (U.S. News and World Report, 2010)

    ● The College of Education is ranked 31st among public universities — a gain of 16 ratings points from the previous year (U.S. News and World Report, 2010)

    [Source: http://marcomm.tamu.edu/communications/recognitions.html#usnews ]

    ● Ranks as the nation’s fourth largest public university in enrollment, with close to 50,000 students – including 9,500 graduate students – on the main campus

    ● Holds membership in the Association of American Universities, a highly selective organization that promotes high standards for teaching, research and scholarship at the undergraduate, graduate and professional levels – one of only 61 institutions with this distinction.

    ●Home to one of the largest chapters of Phi Beta Kappa, the nation’s oldest and largest academic honor society, with its Kappa of Texas chapter having more than 150 members.

    ●Operates centers in Mexico, Costa Rica and Italy and branch campuses in Galveston and Qatar (the latter fully funded by Qatar Foundation).

    ● Ranks in the nation’s top 20 for total research expenditures ($689 million plus in FY10) and third behind only MIT and University of California-Berkeley for universities without medical schools.

    ●During the most recent fiscal year, researchers at Texas A&M and affiliated A&M System agencies formed six startup companies and executed 50 licenses, bringing the total number of active licenses to 441; 38 licenses for new technology were executed and 32 patents were issued.

    ●The average SAT score for the freshman class is 1210, well above the national average.

    ●Twenty-five percent of the freshman class are the first in their family to attend college.

    ●It is among the nation’s largest uniformed student bodies and commissions more officers than any other institution except for the nation’s service academies; approximately 2,000 men and
    women participate on a voluntary basis.

    [Source: http://marcomm.tamu.edu/documents/tamuFacts.pdf ]

    I hope everyone had a wonderful Christmas and a very merry New Years. I don't think any applicant could go wrong attending any of these institutions. Best wishes to all.

    Lawman32RPD
     
  5. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Is the subjective rating from some newspaper, website, or magazine going to play a part in determining which college you will select?

    If so - why?
     
  6. ajwilliams96

    ajwilliams96 Member

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    I'm simply asking out of curiosity.
     
  7. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    ajwilliams96, bruno is totally correct. Each of the SMCs are extremely respected in the military, because they each have a long history of producing quality graduates for almost 200 years.

    My advice would be to apply to all of the SMCs. After you find out which SMCs have admitted you, then you should visit them all, spending an overnight and attending a class or two. You will see that one of the SMCs will feel "just right" for your particular interests and stand out. Do your homework, because you will wear the ring of the SMC your entire life.

    Once you make a decision (and you will never be certain of your choice until you graduate), give that SMC everything you've got and don't ever look back.
     
  8. pilot2b

    pilot2b Candidate Appointee

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    FYI, I know that for TAMU, a large number of students are automatically admitted, either by being in the top 10% of their class in a recognized in-state high school or by have 1300+ SAT Reading/Math (with no section below 600)or 30+ ACT (with no section below 27).

    Those stats are reasonably selective, especially for a public university.
     
  9. Lawman32RPD

    Lawman32RPD Member

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    January 3, 2012

    Texas A&M Moves Up In Kiplinger’s ‘Best Values’ Public College National Rankings

    Texas A&M has moved up Kiplinger's list of "best values" in public colleges and is the top Texas institution.

    Texas A&M University continues to move up in Kiplinger’s annual listing of “best values” among the nation’s top 100 public colleges, now ranking 21st — and tops in Texas.

    The widely circulated personal finance magazine has just released its 2011-12 rankings, which are based on a combination of academic quality and affordability, note the publication’s editors.

    Texas A&M ranked 23rd on Kiplinger’s “best values” public college list last year and 30th the previous year. It is one of only three Texas universities to be included on that list this year, followed by the University of Texas at Austin and the University of Texas at Dallas.

    The 2011-12 public college list is again headed by the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill.

    The Kiplinger’s rankings are the latest in a host of such assessments in which Texas A&M fares well, university officials note. Last month, for example, a new online organization, TheBestColleges.org, ranked Texas A&M sixth nationally among public universities and first in Texas, basing its ratings on weighted factors that focus on economic value, quality of life, academic quality and student satisfaction. The university also historically ranks high in national ratings by such publications as U.S. News & World Report, Forbes, Washington Monthly and Princeton Review.

    Additionally, the university fared well in a recent New York Times listing of what business leaders worldwide say are the top institutions from which they recruit, with Texas A&M placing eighth among public U. S. universities and first among all public or private universities in the Southwest or deep South. It also ranked second nationally in a Wall Street Journal study in which large U.S. companies, non-profits and governmental agencies rated schools on the basis of whose graduates were best prepared and most able to succeed. Smart Money magazine placed Texas A&M first nationally for “payback ratio” — the earning levels of an institution’s graduates compared to what they paid in tuition, fees and related costs for their undergraduate educations.

    In a related study last year, Texas A&M ranked first among public universities in Texas in “return on investment” (ROI) — what a graduate earns compared to typical college costs incurred, according to listings posted online by PayScale, Inc. In another PayScale posting, Texas A&M ranked first among public institutions in Texas in earnings of graduates at the midpoint of their careers.

    [Source: http://tamutimes.tamu.edu/2012/01/0...paign=Feed:+tamuNewsFull+(TAMU+News+Articles) ]
     
  10. pennak

    pennak Member

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    And a really big plus for TAMU is TAMU makes sure that all Corps members get in state tuition!!! For that selfish reason alone, I was very interested in TAMU for my DS. Alas, he opted for VMI where he is a Rat right now -- at $40,000 a year for Out of State total. FWIW, he visited overnight TAMU, VMI, the Citadel and Norwich before settling on VMI. I would join those in strongly urging such an overnight visit if you are at all considering any of these schools. The overnights were a very important factor for my DS.
     
  11. Packer

    Packer Member

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    My son was originally going to visit VMI, Norwich and TAMU. He had a preconceived perception that TAMU would be his first choice. After he visited TAMU he decided not to vist the others. He said "I like TAMU and will be an academic admit so I don't see a reason to do the other visits". I was ok with his decision as I felt like he would fit in well at TAMU and the CoC and even if he didn't get a AROTC/AFROTC scholarship there it would be cheaper than our in-state options (my selfish reason).
     
  12. pennak

    pennak Member

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    Good for your DS. Sometimes, you just know the right fit. My DS has the same reaction to VMI (it was the first school we visited). If he had decided then, I could have saved some $$ on the other visits. :smile: Oh well, I enjoyed the trips almost as much as he did.
     
  13. Fuji

    Fuji Member

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    AJWILLIAMS,

    While I understand your question - I encourage you to read what someone else posted here already - those types of ratings are very subjective.

    Now - that being said - I am a Norwich Grad so - of course - I think that Norwich is the "best!" However - as a counselor - I encourage all students to understand that it matters less where you go - but - what you do when you get there. I encourage your child to decide on which college to attend based on their own interests.

    Additionally - as a retired college administrator - I had to spend LOTS of hours juggling statistics to get our college to show the best 'numbers" possible for the different national "ranking" publications that are out there. Please - if I may ask - stop feeding that monster! Any and all of the colleges on this site are OUTSTANDING!

    I wish you well,

    Fuji
     
  14. patentesq

    patentesq Parent

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    Fuji is 1000% correct and provides very sound advice. Also, because nearly all SMC grads hold a deep respect for each of the SMCs, it is rare that one will say that SMC A is "better" than SMC B. In my experience, the rivalry quickly dissipates soon after graduation as everyone lines up on the same team (inter-service rivalry persists, though).
     
  15. vamom

    vamom Member

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    I think one prudent action for the OP to take is to contact each SMC to ask the GPA's and majors of each class at each SMC in a given (recent) year. That won't tell you exactly what you are asking, but it will give you a darn good idea. I know that Virginia Tech has this information and makes it readily available (and it's pretty impressive!). If it is NOT made available, I might wonder why.

    For TAMU and VT, you would want those stats as they relate to the Corp of Cadets and not the entire student body pop., obviously!
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2012

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