Accepted USMA c/o '15

[HeloPilot_2015]

My SLS squad leader (a great guy) flat-out told us that many of the cadre had looked their squads up on Facebook, so I expect that the cadre for Beast will do the same. I don't really have a problem with it, but it's something to keep in mind.

 

[America's Finest]

Has any West Point offical instructed cadre to "look up" new cadets? I doubt it.

The primary responsbility of cadres is to instruct new cadets with the established program of instruction. Cadres are free to provide additional instructions to new cadets. However, actively searching new cadets "digital footprint" (i.e. googling new cadet's name, searching from new cadets on Facebook) seems little beyond the scope of West Point training. An accidental discovery is different as it is a public information.

What I am concern about is how the public information is obtained (i.e. active collection).

If you are considering branching MI, look up Intelligence Oversight.

If we only did those things which we were specifically instructed to do, we wouldn't get much done now would we? If we want to go into what the cadre's role is by the letter then we are here to prepare New Cadets for entry into the academy. Security (virtual and physical) is very important and information that we don't want to be public should be kept secured. Gathering all the intelligence available prior to a mission seems to be in the scope of things. Either way, it happens so keep your social network pages secure because a large portion of them will look you up before you get here.

mom3boys,

I don't really get what leading by example and being "the heavy" fit into this context.

 

[MemberLG]

In theory, practice and theory are the same. In practice, they are not. Cadre DO look up facebooks of their NCs. Believe me. Doesn't matter if they're instructed to or not, fact of the matter is that they do, so be wary of what you put on the internets.

I am not perfect by no means, but aren't you supposed to do the right thing, not what's easy or what everyone else does.

I get the point that cader DO look up new cadets "digital foot print" so new cadets need to be careful, it might be too late for some, on what they do on the internet.

My point is that as future officers in the Army, cadets need to think beyond everyone else does it so it's okay. This should be a good discussion in your Philosphy class or Leadership (PL300?)

 

[joiner2012]

Obviously cadets have time to spend researching whatever they choose. Some take the time away from studying, duties, etc.; others do not. I guess it depends what kind of cadre you want to be. Some want to lead by example, while others want to be seen as "the heavy." When my son was cadre, he found so much face-to-face that needed correction, I cannot imagine he would have had time to break them of any bad habits he read about online!

weeeellll not during LTP. You have plenty of time to look up your squad then. We even made a platoon game out of it with the other cadre members. As for instructors saying to look up people, that may or may not happen...

 

[America's Finest]

I am not perfect by no means, but aren't you supposed to do the right thing, not what's easy or what everyone else does.

I get the point that cader DO look up new cadets "digital foot print" so new cadets need to be careful, it might be too late for some, on what they do on the internet.

My point is that as future officers in the Army, cadets need to think beyond everyone else does it so it's okay. This should be a good discussion in your Philosphy class or Leadership (PL300?)

We have discussed morality. "Everyone does it" isn't the defense for it, it's just what is being used to make sure Candidates secure their profiles. The ones who do it, do it because they want to and because they do not see anything wrong with it. I have yet to see someone do it just because everyone else does or because it is "easy" (actually takes more effort than not doing so).

 

[MemberLG]

If we only did those things which we were specifically instructed to do, we wouldn't get much done now would we? If we want to go into what the cadre's role is by the letter then we are here to prepare New Cadets for entry into the academy. Security (virtual and physical) is very important and information that we don't want to be public should be kept secured. Gathering all the intelligence available prior to a mission seems to be in the scope of things. Either way, it happens so keep your social network pages secure because a large portion of them will look you up before you get here.

mom3boys,

I don't really get what leading by example and being "the heavy" fit into this context.

By all means, additional instruction is good. My point is that there are better use of time or better lesson to be taught than hazing new cadets with what they posted on their facebook.

You don't collect intelligence on friendly forces.

I don't know if cadets and new cadets are required to rececieve annual Operational Security and Information Security training all soldiers receive, but those two training is sufficient to training cadets and new cadets about digital security.

Or you could like me - no facebook account (I guess I am showing my age and I will not be assimilate

FYI - if you didn't catch it, I am class of 94.

 

[MemberLG]

We have discussed morality. "Everyone does it" isn't the defense for it, it's just what is being used to make sure Candidates secure their profiles. The ones who do it, do it because they want to and because they do not see anything wrong with it. I have yet to see someone do it just because everyone else does or because it is "easy" (actually takes more effort than not doing so).

I don't buy it as just telling new cadets to secure their profiles is sufficient, don't have to review their facebook profiles.

Cadre - "New cadets, who has a Facebook account, rasie your hand."
New Cadets - all of them raise their hands
Cadre - Is there any embrassing information on your Facebook account?
New Cadets - slience
Cadre - There is a function on Facebook accoun that limits access, so when you get a chance enable the function. Could also tell some horror stories.

 

[America's Finest]

By all means, additional instruction is good. My point is that there are better use of time or better lesson to be taught than hazing new cadets with what they posted on their facebook.

You don't collect intelligence on friendly forces.

I don't know if cadets and new cadets are required to rececieve annual Operational Security and Information Security training all soldiers receive, but those two training is sufficient to training cadets and new cadets about digital security.

Or you could like me - no facebook account (I guess I am showing my age and I will not be assimilate

FYI - if you didn't catch it, I am class of 94.

We have to complete a few yearly training sessions but I wouldn't be able to tell you their names since I really don't remember.

I am not sure if they had hazing back then but I can assure you that what goes on now is not hazing. Sure, more productive things can be done but that is always the case.

I guess all I can say is times change and in today's society (and the culture of the Corps), searching social media is the norm. I don't agree with certain things this change has brought as well (Candidates memorizing knowledge online prior to R-Day for example) but the reality is that they do happen and while some may consider them wrong it is purely subjective.

All I want to end this with is that as of now, this is the social norm. Believe what you will (that it's right or wrong) but the majority of us (by majority I mean everyone I have talked to since R-Day but I don't want to make a blanket statement and say all) believe it is perfectly acceptable behavior.

That isn't the reason it is done (security). I was just throwing that out there since you wanted to pull out the argument about it not being professional. To be honest, it is done because most consider what they find funny so that makes it enjoyable. I don't buy that it is "immoral" or wrong.

 

[MemberLG]

That isn't the reason it is done (security). I was just throwing that out there since you wanted to pull out the argument about it not being professional. To be honest, it is done because most consider what they find funny so that makes it enjoyable. I don't buy that it is "immoral" or wrong.

I think you just proved my point.

I don't have an issue with "it is done because most consider what they find funny so that makes it enjoyable" as it is a social norm and shame on new cadets to put interesting things on Facebook or not limiting access.

The act itself is not "immoral" or wrong, but trying to give dishonest explanation is wrong, in my opinion.

Why didn't you upfront say it was for amusement?

 

[America's Finest]

I think you just proved my point.

I don't have an issue with "it is done because most consider what they find funny so that makes it enjoyable" as it is a social norm and shame on new cadets to put interesting things on Facebook or not limiting access.

The act itself is not "immoral" or wrong, but trying to give dishonest explanation is wrong, in my opinion.

Why didn't you upfront say it was for amusement?

I was using the logic your argument was based of (having to have a purpose and be professional). I am also reluctant to give one specific reason since everyone has their own. And I was upfront, sorry if I didn't spell it out.


My original statement:

Although the main reason cadre look up Candidates before they get here is not necessarily to teach them that lesson (it has more to do with the ridiculous things some of them say and being able to bring it up during Beast) it does teach them the lesson in the end.

 

[MemberLG]

I was using the logic your argument was based of (having to have a purpose and be professional). I am also reluctant to give one specific reason since everyone has their own. And I was upfront, sorry if I didn't spell it out.


My original statement:

Although the main reason cadre look up Candidates before they get here is not necessarily to teach them that lesson (it has more to do with the ridiculous things some of them say and being able to bring it up during Beast) it does teach them the lesson in the end.

I think this is a good discussion, I think my Philosophy P might be proud of me for what I am doing now or might tell me I am totally screwed up : )

My thesis is that cadre actively seraching digitial information on new cadets for certain reasons is acceptable . So debate becomes what reasons are acceptable and what reasons are not acceptable.

 

[mom3boys]

I take back everything I said.

My cadet, whom I thought was perfect, did indeed look up new cadets while he was cadre. Since I'm his mom and want to continue to think he's perfect , it's obviously perfectly acceptable to gather digital info on said new cadets for whatever purposes the cadre deems necessary. Go Army!

 

[Dixieland]

I take back everything I said.

My cadet, whom I thought was perfect, did indeed look up new cadets while he was cadre. Since I'm his mom and want to continue to think he's perfect , it's obviously perfectly acceptable to gather digital info on said new cadets for whatever purposes the cadre deems necessary. Go Army!

 

[goarmytm]

I believe it is perfectly acceptable. Out here on deployment, my unit is self policing. If we see people posting things they really shouldn't, we make sure it get corrected. Building good security habits early is a good idea particularly in leaders. There is no malicious intent here beyond how smoking new soldiers at basic training even when they've done nothing wrong can be considered malicious. It achieves a desired end state.

 

[jiu-jitsu girl]

I know this is an old thread, but I was hoping someone could help me. I went on to the USMA Class of 2015 facebook page to try and join so I can meet kids who I will be spending the next four years with, but I couldn't figure out how to join the group. It said something about contacting someone with my information to join, I guess since it's for c/o 2015 members only. Could somone please help me out with this??

 

[jake s]

I just checked and the group is a closed group. If you contact and admin they should let you join. There are still current cadets in the group despite it being closed, though.

 

[AKH]

Try and stay away from the group, it's more trouble than it's worth. You'll be meeting plenty of kids to spend the next four years with soon enough!

 

[jiu-jitsu girl]

Well thanks anyways!!

 

[jake s]

Try and stay away from the group, it's more trouble than it's worth. You'll be meeting plenty of kids to spend the next four years with soon enough!

I dont know if staying away from the group is the right message; its more of join at your own risk kind of thing. If you're going to join then just dont say anything on it that would cause extra attention to be drawn to yourself.