Discussion in 'ROTC' started by 120333, Apr 26, 2011.
Eng.& Writing: 31
At this point with your current scores, most likely not.
You have great English scores but you would need to get your Math and Science scores up considerably. The majority of NROTC scholarships are given for Tier 1 and 2, these are your engineering and technical degrees. They are looking for high scores in Math and Science.
Study hard for the test and retake it, twice if needed.
I read in one of your posts that you were considering Nuclear Engineering, this is one of the hardest degrees and equal to Chemical Engineering.
I can tell you about my son. He is currently a 3rd year AROTC Cadet. He was admitted to the School of Engineering for Civil Engineering. His test scores in Math were exactly the same as yours.
The college he attended started the degree courses the freshman year. Civil Engineering is easy compared to Nuclear, but still very challenging, very Math and Science based.
He made it through the first year with a 3.0 GPA due in part to the ROTC Grades that kept it up to that level. And those were the easy introductory engineering and math classes.
Remember that in ROTC you are required to graduate within a certain time frame, I believe they will give you an extra semester for some Engineering degrees, at least they do with AROTC, my son would of had one extra semester to complete his degree. When you add in all the requirements of ROTC it can be a pretty full load. His advisor actually apologized for what his schedule looked like.
Another thing to consider is that with your test scores you will most likely be placed into lower math classes to catch up, this will just add to your class load and require you to double up on future math classes.
My son decided after meeting with a few engineers and really looking at his future class loads that engineering was not for him. He switched Majors to History his sophomore year with the idea of Law School. He has not gotten below a 3.82 since then.
I agree with the other posters, just getting into an Engineering program is not enough. The work is hard, very hard, harder then you can imagine, and that is true for students that score in the mid 30's on math and science.
Your Stats put you in the strong running for an AROTC Scholarship if you would consider the Army, The Army does not care what your Major is so you have more flexibility.
I don't mean to sound negative, just realistic. We've been through this process with our son.
I hope this information helps in some way
These are my DS' ACT scores; he got a scholarship offer from NROTC as well as AROTC:
Combined English & Writing: 31
This will give you an idea what scores will help you get a scholarship offer.
NROTC and AFROTC scholarships are very competitive. To feel like you are in the running academically you will need to be on par with the SA candidates.
Reason why is 95% of SA candidates will apply for ROTC as plan B, yet 95% of ROTC candidates will not apply to an SA as plan B.
ROTC boards do not confer with the SA's when reviewing your packet. That means they will not take into consideration anything else, but the packet itself.
I would say to be competitive you need to break 30 at least. Also as it was stated you are selecting an incredibly difficult major. A major that needs a strong mathematical and scientific background. I would have said maybe the 24 was a bubbling issue if you had science in the 30's, but since both are low it appears that it is not a bubbling issue.
The difference between the SAT and the ACT, is that the ACT is really about the knowledge you have obtained already, whereas the SAT is more analytical.
Try the SAT your brain maybe wired better for that than the ACT. It is very common for a child to do better on one test than the other test.
Finally, here's my 100% never fail guarantee.
You have 0% chance of getting a scholarship if you don't apply!
Try for it. Not one person here sits on the boards, all of our advice is anecdotal from our experiences. Nobody knows there could be something extraordinary in your packet that will make you a shoe in for a particular reason.
I received a Marine Option scholarship with a 27 comp. during the first board.
You don't need to get freakish scores, but be well rounded with many other things that will jump out in your package. It is true though that higher math and science is beneficial, especially Navy option.
Reason why is 95% of SA candidates will apply for ROTC as plan B, yet 95% of ROTC candidates will not apply to an SA as plan B.
Why don't more ROTC candidates apply to the Service Academys? I'm just wondering what the reason may be. I plan on applying to NROTC, AROTC, USNA, USMA.
For many ROTC cadets they want a traditional college life, thus they do not apply to any of the SAs.
They know they want to serve, but yet they still want to be a kid and live life however they choose. If that means staying up until 2 am and never making their bed than so be it.
Not everyone relishes the idea of BCT or sleeping on top of their sheets for a yr. and ROTC allows them to have both worlds. Out of all of our DS's friends that applied ROTC he was the only one that also applied for an SA.
Also some are doing it for the scholarship and that's it. They have full intention of doing 4 and out the door. These cadets don't want to live, breath and eat military for a total of 9 yrs (it is 5 and dive for SA).
Plus, some feel academically they are not on par, or they are not interested in engineering, so they opt ROTC only. Let's face it if you want to major in poli sci, an SA is not the curriculum you would receive compared to lets' say UNCCH. If you ever pull up the course load at the AFA or USNA you will see it is filled all 4 yrs with heavy amounts of Math and Science. Go to UNCCH and the only math or science you will take or the reqs to earn your degree, which maybe 2 courses each.
Honestly if you look at the incoming class of the AFA the median SAT is 1330 (680 M, 650 V). If you come from an area that is highly competitive like NY, VA, TX, CA or CO I can guarantee you that those scores are probably much closer to 1400+ The avg SAT for AFROTC is 1260. Thus, many candidates at the onstart feel that the SA is out of reach for them purely from a gpa/sat point of view.
Is it wrong not to even try? Not necessarily. If you don't want to live that life and know that for sure, than don't apply. I say that because it is a lot of work to go through the process. Our DS met his ALO @ 3 times a month writing, editing, re-editing his essays throughout the summer. Than there is the interviews in the fall and early winter. On top of that there is the CFA, plus teacher recs. And that still leaves you with doing all of your plan B stuff. I will not lie, I would say for DS he was spending at least one day a week on either SA or plan B issues for about 5 months. It is alot of work if you aren't sure.
Hope that helps give some insight why you will see the inverse relationship.
Forgot to say for AROTC and USMA there is one HUGE reason why...AROTC does not require AD upon graduation, USMA does. For some that is a huge reason. AFROTC requires AD no if, and or buts upon being commissioned. I believe NROTC also requires AD too, not sure and will leave that to the NROTC experts to answer.
You summed it up very nicely,
My DS is planning on being a career army officer.
However, he wants the 'traditional' college experience.
He likes the option to go reserves if he decides AD is not for him or if
he gets a job offer to be Jason Bourne
These choices were pointed out to him by a PMS that he liked - early on,
that PMS was selling why Army ROTC vs Navy/AF/Marines.
Has absolutely no interest in the service academies.
I'm afraid my tales of college parties, pranks and panty raids have corrupted the boy.
It is very difficult for some to see ROTC from a different perspective if their plan A is an SA.
Our DS spent the 1st 18 yrs of his life in for intense purposes a military bubble. His dad was an AF officer, his friends were military dependents, his class mates were mostly military kids. The neighborhoods we lived in were filled with military (always off base). He only went to one school out of 8 that was more traditional families than military. He might have had one or two friends that their parents worked as a CPA or corporate. When Dad left for a deployment, so did all of his friends' parents. He was dragged for yrs to stand on the end of the runway to either watch Dad leave or return.
For him he already had a very big picture of the military life. He summed it up when he opted ROTC over the AFA. I just want to be a typical, normal college kid and see what that life really is like before I spend the next 20 serving.
There were 2 reasons the AFA was in play which we found out much later in the process.
1. Free education. He is a great kid, and although we had money set aside, it weighed on how it would impact his father and I financially.
2. UPT. Everyone knows best chance to fly is the AFA over AFROTC.
We turned to him and said if money was not an issue, and you could be guaranteed UPT where would you go? He stated the college he is at now. That is when we called the ball for him. Bullet took him to the college and had him talk to the ROTC CC. He also talked to cadets that were (C300 and 400). He walked out and asked Bullet to take him to the Bursars, this was the 1st week of Feb, a month before the board closed. He contacted the AFA and removed his name from the the pile.
Happy to say that the ROTC CC told him keep at least a 3.2, and you will have a 95% chance of UPT from their historical data. He has carried a cgpa of 3.4+ and @6 weeks ago he was informed he was selected for UPT.
Yes, he won't have a ring knocker, and for some that is important. For him it was more important to have 4 yrs of being a traditional college kid with kids who know nothing about the military. He understood he was risking his career chances, but that motivated him to do better academically to reduce the risk, yet, he was willing to accept another career field if that was his fate.
I tell this story because it is important to realize for some this is a hard decision and one not made haphazardly. Not everyone who even applies to an academy and gets an appointment doesn't have strong second thoughts.
Trust me, as a Mom who watched her DS go through the process the deeper you get in it, the more emotional it becomes. Applying to an SA is not for the feint at heart. It is a 6-9 month roller coaster ride on a good day. For some it can be close to a yr or more...i.e. open the PCQ in March, and board results released in April as it was this yr.
Now back on topic.
Everyone needs to remember their are types/tiers of scholarships. Some will be for 4 yrs, some for 3, some for one college, but not another.
For NROTC and AROTC they are tied to the college so it is hard to say if the scores are good enough. 25 M at one college could be their median, and at another could be a bahahaha laughing moment for admissions.
It really is important to match the college that you place on the list. Many NROTC cadets yr after yr get a scholarship to a college that they receive the TWE or are waitlisted, but not to their match or safety.
AROTC and NROTC are tied to the cadet and the school.
Great description of the whole process, I hope future applicants to both ROTC and SA's take the time to read it. Both my son's look at all the options and decided after a lot of soul searching which path was right for them. Older son is a MS3 AROTC cadet and couldn't be happier with his decision, younger son will be following him to the same school this Fall.
I had to laugh, my son's looked at me funny when I told them they could commission from ROTC or be a "Ring Knocker". I had to explain that to them. I was a "Mustang" myself. Of course that was back in the day when you could get commissioned without a 4 year degree. For me college came after service. Of course we always did things different in the Coast Guard. I swear I actually had an Ensign knock his ring on the table top when he was trying to explain why he knew better what to do, makes you look back and smile sometimes.
It was interesting seeing my son go through the decisionmaking process this year. He ultimately opted for USMA, but not after fully exploring the ROTC side of the house. Both are terrific commissioning paths.
I do have to say that not having a guaranteed slot in active duty Army will likely be a major downside to AROTC in the coming years. For the past decade, we have lived in a wartime environment where anyone who wanted active duty, basically got it. Because we appear to be headed into a cycle of DoD downsizing, the "automatic AD" is going to change to a point where only the top AROTC cadets get selected. The AROTC cadets who are not selected have to go find a job like the rest of the 85% unemployed new grads. Of course, those attending an SA or SMC won't have to worry as much because their AD slot is pretty much guaranteed.
That said, the "non-guaranty of AD" was not a decisive issue for my DS given his particular circumstances. He ultimately wants to become an Army physician, and if he wasn't able to get AD directly from college, one of his backup plans would have been to do direct commission after medical school (unlike the other branches, all services are low on medical corps officers that is an option available to physicians in the military).
In short, SAs and SMCs come with a GUARANTEED JOB (assuming nothing weird happens like injuries, etc.), while AROTC in a non-SMC school does not.
One thing I don't suspect will EVER change, though, is the stress of this application process.
BACK ON TOPIC.
Do your best, and take both tests. Honestly, for AFROTC anything under a 30 is going to be a no go because the college is not tied to the scholarship, major is.
I assume that is why most will say NROTC is the hardest of the three. It is part AROTC; tied to the school, and part AFROTC; tied to the major.
It is a matter of getting the moon and the stars aligned.
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