Active Duty NROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by sh525, Oct 12, 2011.

  1. sh525

    sh525 Member

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    I've learned through this forum that AD is not guaranteed even with an AROTC scholarship. Is that also the case with an NROTC Scholarship? I understand choice of job after college is based on certain criteria, but is there a chance my son may not get active duty in NROTC as with AROTC? Thanks so much in advance, I find the information on this forum remarkably accurate and helpful!
     
  2. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    Navy ROTC does not have the commissioning options of Reserve or Guard, so all Navy ROTC mids who commission do so into the AD Navy... (or Marines if Marine Option NROTC, or Nurse Corps if they ar NROTC Nursing Option).

    Additionally, the Active Duty commitment is for NROTC is a minimum of 5 years (more for some billets), vs. 4 years for Army ROTC (except for Aviation which is more -- I think 7). Army has a total 8 years, so the amount not served in Active Duty is satisfied by Individual Ready Reserve (not the same thing as Army Reserves) ... which has almost zero chance of being converted into AD.
     
  3. sh525

    sh525 Member

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    Thank you
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I believe the Navy is identical to the AF for aviation, and it is a 10 yr commitment for pilots.

    Additionally, one thing I would rec. to anyone going NROTC is to see when their time starts for the clock.

    AFROTC cadets can have up to 6-9 months before they go AD (AFA goes 1st). That means their time starts when they go AD, not commissioned. So it actually is not X yrs from commissioning, but X from AD. OBTW, during that wait they are not receiving any pay until they are AD. This is always the biggest shocker.

    If they attend a school like UPT the date the commitment for 10 yrs starts is not the day you report, but the day you are winged. UPT is @ 1 yr. So for them when you add 6 month wait, 1 yr in UPT, 10 yr payback...the 1st opportunity to say SEE YA is 11 yrs 6 months...almost 3 times longer than what they thought when they signed on the dotted line for the scholarship (AFROTC non-rated is 4 yrs).

    Additionally what occurs during this time for rated is that they are offered bonuses which keep them until 14 yrs. Hard to pass up a 6 figure bonus at 29/30 when you know it is really only 2 1/2 more yrs. At that time under this current retirement system, most say what the heck, stay until 20 and get 50% pay for the rest of my life. (AF also offers at the 15 yr point another 25K a yr bonus to stay until 21) Which again makes it hard for them to leave at 14, knowing they have that bonus and 850 a month flight pay on top of their O4 salary.

    I just took a 17 yr old to 42/43 in a few short seconds.

    Finally, also talk to your child about the economy if their intention is to dive after the scholarship commitment is over. I would bet my dog that some of the officers that took the scholarship back in 02 with thought of diving right away and not making the military, or now staying because when they accepted in 02, commissioned in 06 never imagined in 11 that our economy would be in the tanks with 9% unemployment. Hence, they are now staying because of the economy.

    The problem here is that as you make rank you sign another pay back, you also do when you take TA, if that commitment ends at the wrong time (i.e. want to live in CA forever, and you are stationed in ME, it is hard to interview from the other side of the country) you find yourself taking another commitment to get back where you want to be when you separate. Which means you keep getting closer to that 50% paycheck and harder to say goodbye.

    Our closest friend of 15 yrs+ wanted out as soon as possible (AFA pilot), his 1st opportunity occurred in 90, but Gulf 1 got in the way for a yr. and when he returned and could leave the economy was in the tanks, airlines weren't hiring...took the bonus and planned to leave at 14, but at that time they sent him to AK and he could either 7 day opt (no job lined up) and go to Korea for a yr to finish out his commitment or got to AK and delay it until 17. He had 3 kids, and couldn't take the risk. They stayed, moved 1 more time and retired at 20 yrs on the dot!

    This is also why it will be interesting to see how they change retirement pay for the AD, because that 50% check for the rest of your life is a big pull, and it allows the military to keep senior personnel. Letting them walk with a 401K would remove that, and make it harder to maintain the balance for even promotion boards or Officer to Enlisted ratios.

    Sorry for diverting the thread, and I do not want to make it about retirement pay vs 401K. I was just trying to point out that when walking down this path, look at the long term from all perspectives. If 5 and dive or 4 and door is your intention, understand that many who entered had the same belief, but be it the Navy reqs or the economy or both, life got in the way.
     
  5. dunninla

    dunninla Member

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    That was a most informative post PIMA. I hope ROTC cadets and mids really think this through before they must decide whether to trade years for either aviation or branching/location choices.

    I must say that looking at this from the private sector perspective, receving half of O4 or O5 pay for the rest of one's natural life, with the option of augmenting that with a second career of one's choice, without the ordinary pressures of mid-40s financial realities, looks attractive. I can see how going from 11.5 AD to 20 AD could be a pretty wise financial choice.

    I know a few people who worked for the City of Los Angeles, one in street paving supervising a crew, then to a desk job over same, who retired at 25 yrs. service with (I think) 70% pay for life. At the time, this guy, who was one of the smartest guys around academically but hated college and dropped out in the first semester, took a lot of flak and judgmental looks from relatives and friends. Now he's looking like he was the really smart one after all. Some of those city workers took private sector jobs in related fields after retirement and are really very financially comfortable, with lots of travel and leisure activity, moreso than white collar professionals who these days have to change jobs every few years when their company is sold, or changes direction (think Community bankers).

    The trade-off equation for Navy Aviation is similar to AF, but the equation changes considerably for Army non-Aviation or Navy SWO. If an Army ROTC cadet does not swap 3 years add'l AD service commitment for Branching (or Location or Aviation), he/she really is a free agent after four years, at age 25 or 26. For Navy SWO just add a year. I would assume AF non-rated is about the same as Army, correct?
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Non-rated serve 4 yrs AD.

    Remember it is on the AD roles, and if the career field has a school that requires a commitment time it runs concurrent.

    Use Bullet as an example.

    He went UNT (rated= RIO for Navy) 9 months after AFROTC commissioning.

    He actually had 4 dates for the AF.
    1. Commission date
    ~~~ Longetivity pay was May.
    2. DOR
    ~~~ They take the avg of commission and RLNT. That placed him Oct 1st, and would be used for promotion boards (O4+).
    3. Flight pay
    ~~~ Started in March when he reported
    4. Owed back time for UNT started in Nov (18 months after commissioning).

    HERE IS THE FUNNY THING.

    As an AFROTC cadet commissioned his 20 yr marker was May, and if things worked out timing wise he would have been able to retire and actually only serve 19 yrs 3 months.

    It didn't work out because he accepted a PCS due to a promotion which made us stay until had 21 yrs AD prior to his 20 DOR and him winging...got 52.50% of base pay because of the loop hole.

    As I always state the devil is in the detail.

    OBTW, parents need to look into if there is a lag time, especially if the child takes a student loan. Most will allow a deferment until they go AD, but do yourself a favor and check that if they allow the deferment will they still charge interest during the deferment period? Some will use the loan offered by USAA for newly commissioned officers to pay off the FAFSA. I believe it is up to 20K, and @3% via USAA, can use it for anything. We have instructed DS not to do this. Car loans now are at 0%, and once you move for your 1st operational they allow members to take a 0% interest loan up to 1 mo. base pay, repaid in 12 months out of the LES It is about using your money wisely. Wise members take the military loan and invest because it is 0%

    Additionally, check your health insurance policy...ROTC cadets when they become POC's (jr/srs) will be now seen at a different level. They will get CAC identificatiions, DS did not take it because for the military he falls under their insurance, but as a military dependent it would work against him. It gave him no benefits, and actually would force him off of our military insurance since the AF claimed him as military. That also was a devil in the details we never saw coming. Luckily he has a great unit, and they said don't get that pretty white card with a chip, stay with the dependent I.D.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2011

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