ADM Fallon done

[USNA69]

This one, in my opinion, pretty much says it all. I am glad someone else, other than me, thought the 'hot water' comment was out of line.

http://www.slate.com/id/2186456/

(The Esquire article, which freely quotes Fallon boasting about how much "hot water" he's in with the White House, is widely regarded as the "last straw" in Fallon's demise.

 

[Zaphod]

From the article linked by 69 above:

The U.S. Constitution does call for civilian control of the military, and generally, we should be thankful for that.

"Generally"?

How about "WITH UNCONTAINABLE GLEE"?

I, for one, have no interest in living in a military-run country, thanks, even if it is ours.

An adoring profile in this month's Esquire by Thomas P.M. Barnet, a professor at the Naval War College, asserts that Fallon is the one man standing between the White House and another Middle East war.

But if President Bush were suddenly to put (an attack on Iran) back on the table, Fallon—or anyone in his position—would have no power to stop it, unless he simply refused to carry out his orders, and nowhere has Fallon said, or suggested, that he was willing to do that.

So Esquire was completely full of it in suggesting otherwise?

I'm telling you..... you can't believe anything you read these days.

 

[Cougar_62]

Re: Admiral Stockdale.

Who of a medium to advanced age doesn't remember the "Who am I, What am I doing here?..." speech? USNA69 is right that he needed public speaking lessons. Between the Admiral and Perot saying... "You got me, You know what I'm saying here?" they looked like buffoons. Good chance to break up the two party monopoly went by the wayside.

Interesting thing about this election (Sorry, I guess we're getting off topic) is if one of the three front runners, McCain, Obama, Clinton is elected it will be the first time in quite a while someone went directly from the Senate to the Presidency. Not necessarily a good thing.

 

[Zaphod]

they looked like buffoons

Because they WERE.

JFK was the last Senator to go straight to the White House, and we all know how well THAT went....

 

[Luigi59]

Because they WERE.

Not sure I'd refer to any Medal of Honor recipient as a buffoon.

Yes, the media made him out to be one (the Saturday Night Live bit with Phil Hartman as Stockdale is a classic, I must admit), but Stockdale had a lot of things going against him at that debate. He was without his hearing aid (necessary from the countless torture and beatings from the North Vietnamese) and was a inexperienced public speaker, thrown into it at the last minute, unprepared against two polished slicky-boy candidates.

 

[justawife]

Perot was right about that sucking sound.....

 

[Zaphod]

Not sure I'd refer to any Medal of Honor recipient as a buffoon.

Yes, the media made him out to be one (the Saturday Night Live bit with Phil Hartman as Stockdale is a classic, I must admit), but Stockdale had a lot of things going against him at that debate. He was without his hearing aid (necessary from the countless torture and beatings from the North Vietnamese) and was a inexperienced public speaker, thrown into it at the last minute, unprepared against two polished slicky-boy candidates.

All of which he should have bloody well known about before he stepped on that stage.

I have nothing but respect for any MOH winner's actions in earning that decoration, but that doesn't give him a free pass, either.

Neither Stockdale nor Perot were anywhere near ready to enter the offices they were running for. I was an early Perot supporter, but realized that if he couldn't even decide whether to run or not, then he probabaly wasn't ready to assume the office should he win.

As for the "giant sucking sound", ANYONE could have predicted that, and the non-passage of NAFTA wouldn't have changed a thing. I worked in Mexico for a while, and THEY were whining that they were losing jobs to China. China isn't in NAFTA. Besides, if we HAD imposed protectionist policies, we would be paying through the nose for simple trinkets and NONE of them would be selling overseas. Neither would be good for us.

Sorry, but the term "hand grenade with a bad haircut" is a PERFECT description of Perot.

It's truly a sad state of affairs when my beloved alma mater only seems to produce communists and idiots when it comes to politicians.

 

[USNA69]

Not sure I'd refer to any Medal of Honor recipient as a buffoon.

It's truly a sad state of affairs when my beloved alma mater only seems to produce communists and idiots when it comes to politicians.

If the second quote was a response to the first, it obviously occurs, at least in part, to more than just politicians.

 

[USNA69]

(Perot and Stockdale) looked like buffoons

Because they WERE.

From the forum rules:

This is a patriotic website where we love our country and hold the members of the Armed Forces in the highest esteem.

Again, you are making a mockery of your own rules. How can an administrator of this forum be allowed to make such inflammatory untrue statements. Admiral Stockdale was no buffoon. He was a true hero of a very unpopular war. His only sin was that he looked bad on TV. I guess for some of our younger generations, that equates to buffoonery. A Medal of Honor winner who, as the senior POW in North Vietnam, rallied his fellow inmates to such an extent that all but two were able to come home with their heads held high, knowing that they had stood defiant against their enemy. He was one of the most highly decorated Naval officers of all times.

Read history. As a VP candidate, he was ‘set up’ by Perot. He did the honorable thing. He kept his word. Perot did not. He was also probably, at the time, suffering with the onset of Alzheimer’s Disease. But I guess that means nothing for those who gets their news from Saturday Night Live. Zaphod, you owe everyone an apology. Also this thread needs to be cleaned up so as not to be an embarrassment to all of us. It is continuing 'buffoonery' such as this which causes me to question why I remain a contributor to this mess.

 

[Luigi59]

I have nothing but respect for any MOH winner's actions in earning that decoration, but that doesn't give him a free pass, either.

It should.

At least here.

 

[USNA69]

^^^^^^^Amen.

 

[LineInTheSand]

From the forum rules:



Again, you are making a mockery of your own rules. How can an administrator of this forum be allowed to make such inflammatory untrue statements. Admiral Stockdale was no buffoon. He was a true hero of a very unpopular war. His only sin was that he looked bad on TV. I guess for some of our younger generations, that equates to buffoonery. A Medal of Honor winner who, as the senior POW in North Vietnam, rallied his fellow inmates to such an extent that all but two were able to come home with their heads held high, knowing that they had stood defiant against their enemy. He was one of the most highly decorated Naval officers of all times.

Read history. As a VP candidate, he was ‘set up’ by Perot. He did the honorable thing. He kept his word. Perot did not. He was also probably, at the time, suffering with the onset of Alzheimer’s Disease. But I guess that means nothing for those who gets their news from Saturday Night Live. Zaphod, you owe everyone an apology. Also this thread needs to be cleaned up so as not to be an embarrassment to all of us. It is continuing 'buffoonery' such as this which causes me to question why I remain a contributor to this mess.

I'm trying to figure out why there was a 12 hour break between a poster's posts. Nothing developed from the last post to the most recent one, so why the recharged batteries and the willingness to "go"?

 

[Zaphod]

It is continuing 'buffoonery' such as this which causes me to question why I remain a contributor to this mess.

The exit button is the little "X" on the upper-right corner of your browser. No one is preventing you from using it.

 

[Zaphod]

It should.

At least here.

Well, it doesn't.

It didn't with John Kerry, who was a lying sack of manure no matter how many Purple Hearts he put himself in for.

And if you think I don't apply it uniformly, I should point out that I also think Randy Cunningham got what he deserved for taking bribes rather than sticking to facts when selecting military contracts. It matters not that he was one HELL of a pilot in Vietnam.

Life doesn't issue free passes. While one's conduct in uniform is definitely to be respected (and it is), it doesn't give them carte blanche for the rest of their life, nor does it give them immunity from valid criticism.

If Admiral Stockdale allowed himself to be "set up" by Perot, or knowingly stepped on the stage unprepared, then he deserves to be criticized for it. That does not subtract one iota from his incredible and heroic conduct while a POW, and anyone who thinks it does is either being overly sensitive or is just trying to pick a fight.

 

[Luigi59]

Well, it doesn't.

It didn't with John Kerry, who was a lying sack of manure no matter how many Purple Hearts he put himself in for.

Sen. John Kerry never received the Medal of Honor (Sen. Bob Kerrey did) And his self-inflicted wounds treated by band-aids shouldn't have got him the PH either.

And if you think I don't apply it uniformly, I should point out that I also think Randy Cunningham got what he deserved for taking bribes rather than sticking to facts when selecting military contracts. It matters not that he was one HELL of a pilot in Vietnam.

Neither did Duke, despite his lobbying for it. No medal (not his Navy Cross, nor even the MoH) excuses his criminal behavior.

Life doesn't issue free passes. While one's conduct in uniform is definitely to be respected (and it is), it doesn't give them carte blanche for the rest of their life, nor does it give them immunity from valid criticism.

I believe differently for Medal of Honor recipients. They should be held in much higher esteem, especially in a military-themed forum, for the rest of their lives.

If Admiral Stockdale allowed himself to be "set up" by Perot, or knowingly stepped on the stage unprepared, then he deserves to be criticized for it. That does not subtract one iota from his incredible and heroic conduct while a POW......

IMHO, criticizing, belittling, and generally dishonoring a Medal of Honor recipient (calling him a buffoon) in a military-themed forum, especially by a Forum Moderator, is despicable.

..and anyone who thinks it does is either being overly sensitive or is just trying to pick a fight.

Or is pointing out a belief that the Medal of Honor recipients deserve better no matter their political beliefs.

 

[USNA69]

From the Dallas Morning Star:

http://www.aiipowmia.com/inter24/in040322perot.html

Mr. Perot will receive the prestigious Eisenhower Award in recognition of his humanitarian efforts in general and his extraordinary efforts to help American service members in particular.

Mrs Stockdale contributed tremendously to the plight of our POWs in Vietnam. This is how she met Perot. This is why, when Perot needed a running mate simply to get on the ballot of all 50 states, Admiral Stockdale.felt that he owed Perot a favor and complied. No one ever intended for it to go as far as it did. The Admiral, given the circumstances, did the best he could.

LITS, forgive me, but I am still trying to come up with words to describe someone who will put Randy Cunningham and Admiral Stockdale in the same sentence.

Zap, maybe that little green monster is rearing it’s ugly head again?

Maybe it was simply too many guys ahead of us who also wanted to play Maverick and then spend the rest of our lives telling the rest of the world about what badasses they were over the internet.

 

[RetNavyHM]

From this point on this topic is about ADM Fallon.

Any other off topic posts and this thread will be locked.

 

[USNA69]

Bill Fallon-Who's that?

 

[Just_A_Mom]

Conversation with the average American:

Adm Fallon? He is the guy who just resigned as head of CentCom - what's that?
You know - Central Command in the Middle East - Huh?
Remember- we are at war. Oh yeah I forgot.

Who do you think will replace him?
He will be replaced - at least temporarily by his deputy - Lt General Martin Dempsey.
Who is that?

 

[Cougar_62]

I apologize if anyone thought I meant to demean Admiral Stockdale or Ross Perot by saying: "They looked like Bufoons." I have nothing but respect for the Admiral and his service. I know it's splitting hairs, but I should have said the situation made them look bad, and not imply that I actually thought they were "Bufoons."

Please don't lock out the thread.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled discussion.