AF introduces Total Force Commissioning Process
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Makes sense.
Pima
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That would be a huge waste of money to do it that way. An FC1 is a 3 day TDY which they send them to WPAFB. To send all of cadets that signed the rated paperwork for SFT, but not pick them up is idiotic from a fiscal perspective, especially if you are talking about hundreds of cadets not getting a rated slot.
~ I.E. if 1100 signed the paperwork and only 800 are selected, than that is 300 exams performed that did not need to be done and EKGs are not cheap exams, nor flying out those cadets, or the hotel bills, or the per diem. In essence if you tally it all up, it could be @250k
Additionally, that would mean pushing either the rated board back to 400 or the non-rated up to 300. Theoretically to save the costs the non-rated would have to be pushed up to 300 year so they don't have to send the non-selected rated to WPAFB.
~ That option at least makes sense from a one board and done, because they could do the supplemental non-rated in the fall.
I am sure at this time MPC already knows the numbers that will be slotted into each group, but trying to figure out how they will do only one board because now it will be juggling not just 4 rated options, but 7 when you add in non-rated. It is an OML, but some will place CSO, RPA, ABM, pilot in that order and others will rank theirs differently, so they have to work all of that out, THEN those not selected have to go back into the non-rated pool and the OML plays again with their choices.
~ My cranium is hurting just trying to figure this out. This maybe why the OCS boards are separate like ROTC. The only ones that drop all AFSCs at the same time are the AFA, but than again the AFA in years passed have basically guaranteed the cadets if they want pilot and graduate they will get pilot. (This year those cadets will be like ROTC and place all 4 options on their list)
Soletrain,
Scholarship or non-tech vs tech is not a factor for UPT selection, or it use to not be. The AF knows that the educational background has no bearing on how they handle the stick. The number 1 grad out of my DSs UPT class got a 22 and he was a history major. They also know that the commissioning source has no impact either on how well they do...the number 1 was an OCS grad that was prior enlisted.
The only time the tech degree matters is for TPS. You must have an engineering degree to become a test pilot or CSO.
The selection formula is pretty straight forward, cgoa, PFT, SFT ranking, PCSM (which includes flight hours and TBAS) and the CoC ranking. As an example, that non tech major can easily over take the tech major just on the SFT ranking and PCSM on the OML.
~~~ Now theoretically since the majority of cadets selected for SFT were tech, there will be more of them than non-tech applying, thus if the non-tech has little to no flight hours they are going to be a huge disadvantage.
~ I.E. if 1100 signed the paperwork and only 800 are selected, than that is 300 exams performed that did not need to be done and EKGs are not cheap exams, nor flying out those cadets, or the hotel bills, or the per diem. In essence if you tally it all up, it could be @250k
Additionally, that would mean pushing either the rated board back to 400 or the non-rated up to 300. Theoretically to save the costs the non-rated would have to be pushed up to 300 year so they don't have to send the non-selected rated to WPAFB.
~ That option at least makes sense from a one board and done, because they could do the supplemental non-rated in the fall.
I am sure at this time MPC already knows the numbers that will be slotted into each group, but trying to figure out how they will do only one board because now it will be juggling not just 4 rated options, but 7 when you add in non-rated. It is an OML, but some will place CSO, RPA, ABM, pilot in that order and others will rank theirs differently, so they have to work all of that out, THEN those not selected have to go back into the non-rated pool and the OML plays again with their choices.
~ My cranium is hurting just trying to figure this out. This maybe why the OCS boards are separate like ROTC. The only ones that drop all AFSCs at the same time are the AFA, but than again the AFA in years passed have basically guaranteed the cadets if they want pilot and graduate they will get pilot. (This year those cadets will be like ROTC and place all 4 options on their list)
Soletrain,
Scholarship or non-tech vs tech is not a factor for UPT selection, or it use to not be. The AF knows that the educational background has no bearing on how they handle the stick. The number 1 grad out of my DSs UPT class got a 22 and he was a history major. They also know that the commissioning source has no impact either on how well they do...the number 1 was an OCS grad that was prior enlisted.
The only time the tech degree matters is for TPS. You must have an engineering degree to become a test pilot or CSO.
The selection formula is pretty straight forward, cgoa, PFT, SFT ranking, PCSM (which includes flight hours and TBAS) and the CoC ranking. As an example, that non tech major can easily over take the tech major just on the SFT ranking and PCSM on the OML.
~~~ Now theoretically since the majority of cadets selected for SFT were tech, there will be more of them than non-tech applying, thus if the non-tech has little to no flight hours they are going to be a huge disadvantage.
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Air Force Times article
New options allow ROTC grads to enter Guard, Reserve
Each year, about 1,500 ROTC cadets are commissioned as second lieutenants in the active-duty Air Force, but personnel cuts across the service are eliminating slots for the new college graduates.
Now the Air Force is looking for cadets to volunteer to join the Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard. The Air Force also is allowing ROTC cadets to request to be released from their active-duty service commitments without repaying their scholarships or stipends.
The Total Force Commissioning Process, announced July 10, “allows us to provide opportunities for high quality cadets to continue serving, albeit in our Reserve components,” Lt. Gen. Sam Cox, the Air Force deputy chief of staff for manpower, personnel and services, said in the release. “Unfortunately, given budget reductions, the Air Force must reduce its active duty force, limiting the number of cadets we can accept into the active component.”
The voluntary phase will be followed by an involuntary phase.
“The biggest challenge with the new process is the short time frame we have for implementation,” said Brig. Gen. Brian Kelly, the director of force management policy for the Air Force.
Here’s what you need to know:
1. Voluntary phase: Cadets graduating from now through Dec. 31, 2015, may apply for the service commitment waiver or to a Guard or Reserve unit. Cadets seeking relief from their commitment will be told by late October whether their request was approved.
2.
Involuntary phase: After the volunteer phase for release from service commitments and application to units in the Guard and Reserve, the Air Force will begin selecting the officers it intends to retain in the active-duty force in a “merit process.”
Factors that will determine whether a cadet is commissioned include detachment commander rank, field training rank, Air Force Officer Qualification Test score, academic aptitude and cumulative grade point average.
3. Other options: Cadets who are not retained can stay in the Individual Ready Reserve and pursue positions in the Guard and Reserve, the release said.
Recruiters will be available to help cadets decide which unit has openings and fits with their skills.
4. Who can’t apply: Right now, only ROTC cadets can apply for the service commitment waivers or spots with the Guard and Reserve. The approximately 1,000 cadets who are commissioned out of the Air Force Academy each year are not affected, nor are the 500 to 800 cadets who are commissioned through Officer Training School each year.
5 Shrinking numbers.The Air Force plans to reduce the number of second lieutenants by about 400 this fiscal year, from 6,899 in 2013 to 6,432, according to budget documents submitted to Congress. As of July 17, the Air Force had 6,853 second lieutenants. The number of second lieutenants commissioned through ROTC so far this year is 833, down from 1,344 in 2013.
New options allow ROTC grads to enter Guard, Reserve
Each year, about 1,500 ROTC cadets are commissioned as second lieutenants in the active-duty Air Force, but personnel cuts across the service are eliminating slots for the new college graduates.
Now the Air Force is looking for cadets to volunteer to join the Air Force Reserve or Air National Guard. The Air Force also is allowing ROTC cadets to request to be released from their active-duty service commitments without repaying their scholarships or stipends.
The Total Force Commissioning Process, announced July 10, “allows us to provide opportunities for high quality cadets to continue serving, albeit in our Reserve components,” Lt. Gen. Sam Cox, the Air Force deputy chief of staff for manpower, personnel and services, said in the release. “Unfortunately, given budget reductions, the Air Force must reduce its active duty force, limiting the number of cadets we can accept into the active component.”
The voluntary phase will be followed by an involuntary phase.
“The biggest challenge with the new process is the short time frame we have for implementation,” said Brig. Gen. Brian Kelly, the director of force management policy for the Air Force.
Here’s what you need to know:
1. Voluntary phase: Cadets graduating from now through Dec. 31, 2015, may apply for the service commitment waiver or to a Guard or Reserve unit. Cadets seeking relief from their commitment will be told by late October whether their request was approved.
2.
Involuntary phase: After the volunteer phase for release from service commitments and application to units in the Guard and Reserve, the Air Force will begin selecting the officers it intends to retain in the active-duty force in a “merit process.”
Factors that will determine whether a cadet is commissioned include detachment commander rank, field training rank, Air Force Officer Qualification Test score, academic aptitude and cumulative grade point average.
3. Other options: Cadets who are not retained can stay in the Individual Ready Reserve and pursue positions in the Guard and Reserve, the release said.
Recruiters will be available to help cadets decide which unit has openings and fits with their skills.
4. Who can’t apply: Right now, only ROTC cadets can apply for the service commitment waivers or spots with the Guard and Reserve. The approximately 1,000 cadets who are commissioned out of the Air Force Academy each year are not affected, nor are the 500 to 800 cadets who are commissioned through Officer Training School each year.
5 Shrinking numbers.The Air Force plans to reduce the number of second lieutenants by about 400 this fiscal year, from 6,899 in 2013 to 6,432, according to budget documents submitted to Congress. As of July 17, the Air Force had 6,853 second lieutenants. The number of second lieutenants commissioned through ROTC so far this year is 833, down from 1,344 in 2013.
This part amazes me:
The AF has been cutting back on EA slots, USAFA appointments and OTS classes since 2011 and NOW they realize that they are STILL commissioning too many 2nd Lts? What happened to the plan? You can only blame sequestration so many times and for so long before it begins to look as though nobody is at the helm (or perhaps yoke for the AF).
This is the one that gets me.
The AF will allow cadets that have been on scholarship, some at very expensive schools, to request Reserves or be sent to Reserves while keeping OTS grads in the Active Duty. Even the Army has been fiscal enough to suspend OCS when there is not a need for more officers. So if I understand this right the AF will guarantee AD for it's OTS grads while sending it's ROTC cadets to the Reserves or even IRR. I may be missing something here but does this make sense.
The AF will allow cadets that have been on scholarship, some at very expensive schools, to request Reserves or be sent to Reserves while keeping OTS grads in the Active Duty. Even the Army has been fiscal enough to suspend OCS when there is not a need for more officers. So if I understand this right the AF will guarantee AD for it's OTS grads while sending it's ROTC cadets to the Reserves or even IRR. I may be missing something here but does this make sense.
Pima
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The AF has actually cancelled one of the two OCS boards every year for the past 3 years, so they have pulled back on that side. There use to be 2 non rated and 2 rated boards annually, now it is one and one. They also have turned the spigot way down for pilot slots out of OCS. Basically, the chances are very slim from an OCS perspective as a fresh out of college aspect. They have been holding those slots for AFA and AFROTC, the few given to OCS either the candidate was prior E or had PPL hours.
I get your point Jcleppe, but remember many of those that go OCS are prior E, so I can understand them keeping OCS grads. In my DS's UPT class 3 were prior Es, out of 24 that winged.
Plus, for SFT selection scholarships are not placed into consideration, some of them may be gone by commissioning. Additionally in total the AF only gives out about 900 scholarships, it maybe a waste of money, but I am not sure statistically how many of those scholarships are going to not go AD. I also thought that the Army allows every cadet to opt IRR or Guard. Thus, if they do isnt that the same?
The thing that confused me are these two statements:
followed by:
In essence, they are already cutback hard, and even if the 1st quote is taking into O1s for 2 years, than the 15 year group will be not hit as hard as one may think if it is the size of 14.
I get your point Jcleppe, but remember many of those that go OCS are prior E, so I can understand them keeping OCS grads. In my DS's UPT class 3 were prior Es, out of 24 that winged.
Plus, for SFT selection scholarships are not placed into consideration, some of them may be gone by commissioning. Additionally in total the AF only gives out about 900 scholarships, it maybe a waste of money, but I am not sure statistically how many of those scholarships are going to not go AD. I also thought that the Army allows every cadet to opt IRR or Guard. Thus, if they do isnt that the same?
The thing that confused me are these two statements:
followed by:
In essence, they are already cutback hard, and even if the 1st quote is taking into O1s for 2 years, than the 15 year group will be not hit as hard as one may think if it is the size of 14.
This is the one that kills me.
The Air Force also is allowing ROTC cadets to request to be released from their active-duty service commitments without repaying their scholarships or stipends.
All that money, time and effort down the drain due to gross mismanagement is incompetent at best and borders on criminal in my opinion.
The Air Force also is allowing ROTC cadets to request to be released from their active-duty service commitments without repaying their scholarships or stipends.
All that money, time and effort down the drain due to gross mismanagement is incompetent at best and borders on criminal in my opinion.
Pima
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I think people are missing something here. This is a VSSP for ROTC. Just because they request to leave does not mean they will be given permission. There will be a board.
~ The board can say you owe us money and to another you don't and let the one that doesn't owe money go.
The fine print is the phrase ALLOWING TO REQUEST.
This is not a new process to them. They did this back in the 90's and they are just doing it again.
I have said for eons, the military is cyclical and on a 20 year loop. In 93 they did this and people were saying the same things that they are now, however the older officers were not shocked and reminded them it happened in 74-76. So here we are again.
Right after the AF cleaned house, the Navy went through their cuts and then the Army. The Army has already stated that they have to cut big numbers too. The Marines are cutting numbers. They are just at the AD stage...last week handing out pink slips to the Army. The AF finished that stage already, they have done the VSSP, RIF and SERBs and now they are trickling down to ROTC.
The writing was on the wall for years. AFA cut back to 1100 from 1400 years ago. They have cancelled OCS boards for 3 years. The only place they didn't cut 2 years ago was SFT.
What I would stress to cadets is a bigger issue that there are not going to be enough Guard and Reserve slots available for them, and then what?
~ The board can say you owe us money and to another you don't and let the one that doesn't owe money go.
The fine print is the phrase ALLOWING TO REQUEST.
This is not a new process to them. They did this back in the 90's and they are just doing it again.
I have said for eons, the military is cyclical and on a 20 year loop. In 93 they did this and people were saying the same things that they are now, however the older officers were not shocked and reminded them it happened in 74-76. So here we are again.
Right after the AF cleaned house, the Navy went through their cuts and then the Army. The Army has already stated that they have to cut big numbers too. The Marines are cutting numbers. They are just at the AD stage...last week handing out pink slips to the Army. The AF finished that stage already, they have done the VSSP, RIF and SERBs and now they are trickling down to ROTC.
The writing was on the wall for years. AFA cut back to 1100 from 1400 years ago. They have cancelled OCS boards for 3 years. The only place they didn't cut 2 years ago was SFT.
What I would stress to cadets is a bigger issue that there are not going to be enough Guard and Reserve slots available for them, and then what?
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Moosestache
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Pima, some must commission later on in the year right?
Pima
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The bulk commission in May, and very little commission in Aug. FY ends Sept 30th, thus the Dec. grads are already in that number for FY14. Thus, they are down alot if only 833 commissioned so far this year. Realistically, how many kids commission in Aug, maybe a couple hundred at tops?
This line is a bit confusing. When they say AFROTC Cadets are allowed to request release from AD w/o repayment of the scholarship, are they referring to those that are requesting/volunteering for Reserve or ANG?
If this is the case it is just like the Army ROTC system where even scholarship cadets can request or be sent to the reserve without repaying their scholarships. All AROTC cadets have this option.
If they mean that they are able to request a release from Active Duty straight to IRR then I agree with it being poor force management and an incredible waste of money.
I am pretty sure they are letting you just walk away. This same form of Voluntary Separation Program in AFROTC was introduced this past January for those graduating in Spring 2014. You could just walk away with 4 years of scholarship and stipend money if you really wanted to.
Pima
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This is my guesstimate on how it will go.
The cadets will be allowed to sign requests for any of the options. This is what I was referring to it being like the VSSP for AD, or Palace Chase. That is where the iffy situation starts.
Just because they go Guard or Reserve doesn't mean their commitment is up. They will be required to payback time, it will be structured differently.
If not enough numbers are volunteering they will go up to a RIF board and that is when the AF will say that we legally did not fulfill the scholarship contract, thus we will not hold you liable for the payback.
OBTW, I am not defending the AF, bc I agree AFROTC had 2 years to get the numbers straight. It does appear that they got it right for 16 by looking at the SFT selection rate. The VSSP/RIF/SERBs were happening 2 years ago for even O2s...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that by the time these guys came on line for AD, their yr group would have been much larger than the newly pinned O3s without including the ones that did the 4 and door or 5 and dive.
Also, the other writing on the wall for every newly minted O1 was AFA grads were waiting up to a year to go to UPT. It use to be that they would go a month after graduation. Classes also now at UPT are getting small again. The recent drop from Laughlin had about 15 students, 6 months ago they had 25+/-
The cadets will be allowed to sign requests for any of the options. This is what I was referring to it being like the VSSP for AD, or Palace Chase. That is where the iffy situation starts.
Just because they go Guard or Reserve doesn't mean their commitment is up. They will be required to payback time, it will be structured differently.
If not enough numbers are volunteering they will go up to a RIF board and that is when the AF will say that we legally did not fulfill the scholarship contract, thus we will not hold you liable for the payback.
OBTW, I am not defending the AF, bc I agree AFROTC had 2 years to get the numbers straight. It does appear that they got it right for 16 by looking at the SFT selection rate. The VSSP/RIF/SERBs were happening 2 years ago for even O2s...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that by the time these guys came on line for AD, their yr group would have been much larger than the newly pinned O3s without including the ones that did the 4 and door or 5 and dive.
Also, the other writing on the wall for every newly minted O1 was AFA grads were waiting up to a year to go to UPT. It use to be that they would go a month after graduation. Classes also now at UPT are getting small again. The recent drop from Laughlin had about 15 students, 6 months ago they had 25+/-
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I don't believe this is correct. They began cutting back on SFT in 2011/2012. Look back at the threads. Up to that time EVERYONE was selected.
IMHO....the AF has very little excuse for having too many soon to commission 2nd LTs or for that matter recently commissioned 2nd Lts. They have known for years how many majors/captains they will need. They know what the ratio is supposed to be. You can't blame the economy, sequestration or greater than anticipated numbers of officers not leaving for continuing to run OTS classes and giving out too many AFROTC scholarships while planning/conducting RIF boards. OTS classes (if not cut completely) could be very minimal and college scholarships eliminated or at least even more drastically reduced. At the very least even fewer should have been selected for SFT.
It just amazes me that the guy supposedly in charge of Force Management seems surprised by this AND the time frame.
Pima
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Actually Aglagles, believe it or not it was only a few years where everyone was selected for SFT. Our DS was SFT10 and 55% were selected, the same was true for 09 and 08. It was the following year that they did the 93% rate, and now they went back to the lower rate.
That is when the screw up started. I also know via kevster that in 12 at DS's college their incoming class had 180 100s, almost 2x as much as the year he entered. Which again shouts to the AF, where was MPC during SFT selection?
I agree the shock factor is just total BS and CYA. If not somebody in that chain needs to be given a DNP on their next PRF so they will be RIF'd/SERBd
That is when the screw up started. I also know via kevster that in 12 at DS's college their incoming class had 180 100s, almost 2x as much as the year he entered. Which again shouts to the AF, where was MPC during SFT selection?
I agree the shock factor is just total BS and CYA. If not somebody in that chain needs to be given a DNP on their next PRF so they will be RIF'd/SERBd
Love it! Like swearing with acronyms.
Pima
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I could have added in FUBAR
That being said I did throw in a lot of acronyms and many posters/lurkers are probably now on the acronym page here to interpret what I said.
Translation... you should not be supported for promotion and depending on your rank, either they fire you after not being selected or they decide to give you early retirement.
That being said I did throw in a lot of acronyms and many posters/lurkers are probably now on the acronym page here to interpret what I said.
Translation... you should not be supported for promotion and depending on your rank, either they fire you after not being selected or they decide to give you early retirement.