Affirmative Action?

Discussion in 'Air Force Academy - USAFA' started by Fyterpilot22, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. Fyterpilot22

    Fyterpilot22 USAFA '13

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    Could your race/ethnic background help you into the Academy? I remember hearing about it from someone but I wasn't sure to believe it.
     
  2. hornetguy

    hornetguy USAFA Cadet

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    If you are hoping that being a minority may help you get it, please don't come.

    If that's not the case, then why worry about it?
     
  3. IMUA2013

    IMUA2013 Member

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    True dat

    :eek:I'm a minority-Pacific Islander to be exact...and as my old man told me, "its better to achieve the highest goals I can set for myself and exceed any minimum requirements necessary to get an appt and bank due being a minority etc..." and he being a ROTC graduate and a ex-fighter pilot and instructor at the AFA, I'm happy to say he guided me all through my high school career and especially this Senior year to make sure all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed. And luckily everything is starting to pay off. I would hate to get a nomination just because of my heritage...I would hope that being class Pres. for past 3 years, Eagle Scout, Varsity Football since Sophomore year at a HS in the top 3 in the State practically every year etc...Nat. Honors Soc...on my way with a Honor dip...33 Math ACT..29 Eng...29 SR and maxing the Fitness test...was competitive enough by itself.
    :thumb:
     
  4. packermatt7

    packermatt7 USAFA Cadet

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    Race has no effect on the quality of an officer. Why would admissions look at that?
     
  5. SemperExcelsius

    SemperExcelsius USAFA Cadet

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    *Opened up a can of worms*

    This can't be good...
     
  6. IMUA2013

    IMUA2013 Member

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    ooopss it should read...."and NOT bank"....anyway...I totally agree...why does the AFA put all those stats? :mad:...here's a funny story my old man told me...during UPT...week two or so, his IP asked him what type of A/C he wanted to fly...he replied "F-15's" the IP told him to get rid of his VW Bug...Why? "its all about the image" driving a VW bug just doesn't look like what a fighter pilot should drive...its seems all the IP's talk among themselves etc...rate and rank the Undergraduates in their performance in academics and flying of course...AND the overall "looks" :smile: He was naive than...but if he had to do it over again..he would spray painted a "flying tigers" on the hood and but wide tires in the back and those pipes sticking up etc...My dad think his IP was pulling his chain...but he wasn't going to take any chances :shake: he finished #3 in his UPT class...got the Eagle:thumb:
     
  7. HNeedle

    HNeedle Member

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    they always say here, and EVERYONE says it: "diversity is a key to success in our air force"
     
  8. Christcorp

    Christcorp Member

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    I think this is one topic we should really let drop. It's a NO WIN SITUATION. People; trust me on this one.

    1. If the military DOESN'T have a form of affirmative action; then some people get upset because they believe they haven't had the same opportunities growing up; and therefor the same chances of scoring high enough in the overall computation to get an appointment.

    2. If the military DOES have a form of affirmative action; then some people get upset because if they ARE a minority (Race or gender); then they might feel that they didn't get in on their merits, but rather the color of their skin or gender. If they aren't a minority, and they don't get in, then they may rationalize their rejection was because a lower qualified minority was accepted over them to fill a quota.

    I'm telling you; it's a no win. Let's just drop it. No matter which way you want to believe; there are 2 definite facts that you CAN NOT GET AROUND. 1) There is no way in hell you can change your race or gender. So what does it matter. 2) You have to compete with those in your state and district. So concentrate on that; and ONLY that.

    For those interested; here are the stats for the recent class of 2012. If you look at it, you will realize that NON of the stats match the national average; so there is NO WAY to tell if there's any form of affirmative action happening or not. I.e. 21% women; yet women make up more than 50% of the population. Anyway; here's the info, play all you want. AND THIS WILL BE THE LAST POST ON THIS THREAD I MAKE. later... mike....
    *******************************************
    U.S. AIR FORCE ACADEMY, Colo. - The 1,373 members of the U.S. Air Force Academy's Class of 2012 arrive here Thursday to begin basic cadet training.

    The Class of 2012 boasts the largest percentage of women entering basic cadet training in Academy history at 21.48 percent, surpassing last year's previous all-time high mark by 0.7 percent. The Class of 2012 also includes 287 minorities, which make up 20.9 percent of the class.

    Overall, the Academy received 9,000 applications for admission into the class, with 1,600 being offered appointments. As of June 23, 1,373 had accepted appointments, including 1,078 men and 295 women. Other credentials of the Class of 2012 include:

    * 47 are prior-enlisted members
    * 17 percent were either high school class presidents or vice-presidents
    * 62 percent were in an academic honor society
    * 95 percent were athletic letter award winners
    * 30 percent were in band or orchestra
    * 28 percent were Boy Scouts or Girl Scouts
    * 9 percent were in Civil Air Patrol
    * 13 percent were in Junior ROTC
    * The high school grade point average for the Class of 2012 is 3.85.
    * College entrance score average for the SAT is 1,290.

    The 16 international cadets entering with the Class of 2012 are from Belize, Brunei, Ecuador, El Salvador, Honduras, Korea, Lithuania, Madagascar, Peru, Poland, Senegal, Serbia, Singapore, Slovenia, Taiwan and Tunisia.
     
  9. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Because they can. And they do. The goal of all the military branches is to have the officer corps mirror the racial diversity/makeup of the enlisted force.

    At the present, minorities who are officers are under-represented while enlisted minorities are over-represented, not only in the USAF, but in all branches.

    The USAFA even has an entire division of the Admissions Directorate dedicated to minority/diversity recruitment (the others may as well, I don't know).

    PS - By law (TITLE 14 > PART I > CHAPTER 9 > § 182), the USCGA is the only military academy which cannot use race or sex as a factor in an admissions decision.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009
  10. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    You keep saying that but.... the CGA does actively RECRUIT URM's. I believe they do have a minority officer to assist with this recruitment.
    This is very similar to what the Academies are doing.
    The Service academies do NOT have spaces "set aside" for minorities nor for applicants of a certain gender. The law simply doesn't allow for that.

    What they do have are goals. They have target goals that they aim to reach by doing out reach and recruiting in areas where young people may never have heard of the AFA or West Point. They are looking for Young Americans who wish to serve, who are qualified for entrance.

    This is not as easy as it sounds. The vast majority of young Black Americans are from either poor urban or poor rural environments. There are a lot of bright kids out there who have never been guided toward any career goals. The "few" young Black Americans who come from intact working families, good schools with appropriate higher education role models are often discouraged from attending a SA. They have many opportunites and scholarships available from excellent civilian schools. This increases the challenge.

    The USAFA, USNA, USMA all select candidate by order of merit. The only exception to this is when an MOC names a "Principal" candidate. In all other categories, including the National pool, Presidential nominations etc they are selected by Merit.

    Being an under-represented minority can help you to "catch the eye" of an admissions officer. It will not make up for a deficient application.
     
  11. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Negative ghost rider....you're stepping out of your sphere of knowledge now JAM.
     
  12. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    What are you saying?
    Are you telling me that the CGA does not Actively encourage URM's to apply? When my daughter visited we were told they did infact just that. Encouraged women to apply.
    Let me be clear - I don't think recruiting or encouraging women and/or minorities is the same as "giving an advantage" or "admitting under lower standards".

    LITS - please explain your position.
     
  13. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    Of course they do, actively, it's a mandate from the top. No one is saying otherwise, are they? :confused:

    No one says it does. But they (USMA, USNA., and USAFA) are allowed to consider race when deciding on appointment decisions.

    If they have two qualified candidates, they are entirely allowed by law to give preference to the minority candidate over the non-minority candidate. That does not mean that under qualified minorities are given preference, as you are suggesting I implied.

    The law allows USMA, USNA, and USAFA to consider race and sex when deciding on appointment decision.

    Which the USCGA is, by law, barred from doing so.

    Why are you disagreeing with known, verifiable facts?
     
  14. Just_A_Mom

    Just_A_Mom Member

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    I am not sure why you think that - because the law doesn't specifically prohibit them from doing so?

    The law says appointments must be based on merit. Not sure how you get race or gender out of that.

    Perhaps we should define "Affirmative Action" - Most people think of the Wiki definition:
    Simply but recruiting for minorities and holding special minority information sessions fits this definition. They don't have to pick a black candidate over a white candidate - they pick the most qualified candidate and gets blacks and women from that qualified pool. The theoretical example of "two equal candidates" - is just that, theoretical.
    What the CGA can do is give socio-ecomomic points for overcoming a challenging background. No law against this.

    What candidates should realize is this -
    All academies do outreach and "recruit" for certain minorities and women.
    All academies have certain 'goals' for enrollment diveristy.
    The academies are tax payer funded and do and should represent all of America - not just "Upper Middle Class White Boys from NoVA whose parents force them to go so they don't have to pay for their college education".
    All minorities and women must meet the same admission standard as any other candidates.
    Whether you agree or not - there it is.
    Do NOT go into any service academy and think that your classmates of color or of the opposite gender did not earn their right to be there. They are not lesser cadets than you nor will they be lesser officers than you.
     
  15. LineInTheSand

    LineInTheSand USCGA 2006

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    Hmmmm....that sounded pretty objective....

    I especially like the "white boys from NoVa part.... Nice. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    I've posted the law.

    Feel free to interpret it any way you want to fit your needs. :rolleyes:
     
  17. oldgrad

    oldgrad Banned

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    The law is exactly the same for all the academies. This is verbage from the Civil Rights Act of 1963 which eventually found it's way into the US Code, Title 42, Chapter 21, etc. USCGA is operating under the same guidelines as the others.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The reality is all of these kids are amazingly qualified. When you look at the stats, it is easy to see that none of them were slouches.

    The white boy from NOVA also struck a chord with me...only a few weeks ago on another thread, people were saying it is okay to go for a free education...so am I reading this wrong, are you stating that Upper Middle Class white people should not use it as a reason?

    Goose meet Gander...Gander meet Goose. If it is okay to go for a free education for a minority, than why not a caucasian. The theory that URMs are all poor is wrong. There are many URMs that also send for a free education.
     
  19. Luigi59

    Luigi59 Banned

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    You are incorrect.
     
  20. J Collins

    J Collins Founding Member

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    I found this on the internet.......

    Coast Guard Academy Information Program

    http://www.tpub.com/content/USCGCI/CI_1131_20/index.htm

    COMDTINST 1131.202.c.

    The Coast Guard Academy has traditionally been successful in attracting applicants. However, our nation's changing demographics indicate the number of high schoolgraduates is declining. Thus, competition among colleges and universities for the dwindling pool of qualified applicants is keen

    .d.The success of the Coast Guard in the near and distant future is dependent on oursuccess today in attracting highly qualified minority and women students. Prospective cadets must be given guidance/instruction in Coast Guard Academy admissionsprocedures, cadet life, and Coast Guard career opportunities

    .e.The Coast Guard Academy Information Program is dependent upon the services of Active duty and Reserve officers, as well as Auxiliarists who volunteer to become Academy Information Officers (AIO's). To be designated as an AIO, an individual must attend an orientation seminar sponsored by the Coast Guard Academy. During training, officers are briefed on Academy admission standards and procedures, the Academy curriculum, the Academy's recruiting programs, and target organizations(e.g., Urban League, League of United Latin American Citizens, Kiwanis, etc

    .).f.Individuals interested in participating in the AIP should contact the Coast GuardAcademy Associate Director of Admissions

    .3.RESPONSIBILITIES
    .a.Commandant (G-PRJ) shall:
    (1)Publicize the AIP through internal publications.
    (2)Assist the Academy in targeting cities for participation in the program.
    (3)Provide travel funding for participants attending the AIP orientationseminars

    .b.Commandant

    (G-R) shall:(1)Publicize the AIP through internal publications.2

    COMDTINST 1131.203.g.Commandant
    (G-H) shall:
    (1)Publicize the AIP while conducting outreach activities with nationalorganizations representing minority and women's interests.

    (2)Assist the Academy Director of Admissions by identifying and establishing liaisons, and developing programs with appropriate minority and women organizations in support of the AIP

    .h.Academy Information Officers shall:

    (1)Develop a continuous working relationship with high school officials to identify and influence minority and female students, regarding educational opportunities at the Coast Guard Academy.

    (2)Establish personal contact with qualified students to increase the number of prospective applicants for the Academy.

    (3)Maintain an impeccable military appearance at all times.

    (4)Submit an activity report to the Director of Admissions on a quarterly basis.

    4.ACTION. Area and district commanders, commanders of maintenance and logisticscommands, unit commanding officers, and Commander, CG Activities Europe are highlyencouraged to support and participate in the AIP program. Innovative recognition ofindividual participation in the AIP program is strongly encouraged. Each officer'sparticipation in the AIP program shall be recognized in the Officer Evaluation Report.ROBERT T. NELSONChief of Staff4
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2009

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