AFROTC 13N Scholarship Information

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Sled, Dec 3, 2014.

  1. Sled

    Sled Member

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    Hello all! As stated in the title I'm an AFROTC cadet that is looking for some information on the 13N scholarship. It includes money for tuition and an automatic EA which would be helpful considering I'm a nontech with a 3.4 GPA. I had heard it was very competitive but now I have heard from cadre that if you ask the Col will most likely "push you" and be awarded it. I'm wondering if the job is worth it and how competitive it really is. As always thanks for the help.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    The question is do you want to be a missileer? The scholarship is nice and so is the EA slot, but not everyone wants to be a missileer. The scholarship is being offered because they are having problems getting people to volunteer for that career field. Big Blue is using it as a recruitment tool,.

    I would look into the career field before applying.

    There was another thread just a few weeks ago. One poster received the scholarship and it appears the other did not, thus it appears more than the CoC signing on the dotted line for you to receive it.
     
  3. Sled

    Sled Member

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    The cadet who received that scholarship was in my det. I don't know if anyone grows up always dreaming of becoming a missileer but it had sparked my interest because it plays part in the deterrence aspect of the air force. I understand it is a recruiting tool but the air force has you for 4 years no matter what AFSC you sign for. The other tantalizing thing about it is that I'm a nontech with no realistic chance of receiving a scholarship. I would save roughly $30,000 in tuition, have an EA, and eventually earn my masters in accounting. I believe that the air force would be compensating me appropriately.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I understand where you are coming from. If you are at terms with the life than you should take it. Have you watched the 60 Minutes episode regarding the missileers. It is not a hatchet piece. They interview young officers that are missileers.

    The career field is a pressure cooker regarding exams.

    If you plan to use TA to get for your masters, realize that you will owe more than 4 years. It runs concurrent with your AFSC, but every time you take money you owe time back. The first year of your career will be learning your career. So, let's assume that you start classes after 15 months ADAF. Assume that you take it the last time at 2 1/2 year marker. You are now in for 5 1/2 years. The twist comes if they move you at the 4 year marker. You owe more than a year so they own you and you can't do a non-vol. PCS. You will now be at the 7 year marker before you can bolt.

    Also the clock does not start ticking until you report. I don't know the wait for a nuke school slot, but it could be 6-9 months. So really if you don't time it all perfectly you will be in until @30 before you get out, not the 26 that you are thinking. You can start your masters why you wait, but you won't be eligible for TA, so it would be out of pocket, plus you will probably need to stop for a while when you start your career.

    I would also ask if they have a commitment owed for going to nuke school. Some schools do require a payback and that clock does not start until you graduate from the school. IE, you wait 6 months to go to nuke school. School is 6 months long, and they require a 5 year payback. That puts you at 6 years after commissioning.

    Just saying look at all of the details before you opt this path because college and AFROTC is not 24/7/365.. ADAF is. It is a life they will decide where you live and whether you will be able to go home for Xmas or Thanksgiving.
     
  5. Rocko

    Rocko Member

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    Pima,

    Do you know if this rule applies to enlisted going for a Bachelors degree as well? My oldest son is enlisted and currently using TA for college courses. He enlisted for 6 years. I have never heard him mention that using TA would extend his time.
     
  6. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I don't know. I know for Bullet he had to sign paperwork each and every time he took TA his release date was pushed back.

    There is an exact formula of how much time is owed back for officers. I just don't know the exact formula. Also, it becomes convoluted because if you PCS or make rank than that also plays into the payback. At one point Bullet was running concurrent payback for TA, cross training into a new airframe and PCSing. A few years later he had paybacks for making rank, taking the flight bonus and attending PME. Basically starting after his original 7 years owed for WSO, he was on the hook until 21 years....because they all had different end times. Accepted O4, on the hook for 3 years. 2 years later, went to PME in residence (AF military education) that was another 3 year commitment, or 2 more years. Made O5 2 years later and that now extended him 3 more years. Forced to move at the 18 year marker and he owed 3 years. I can easily get any officer to 20 because the devil is in the details. You really have to be cognizant of timing everything.
    ~ LITS is a great example. He did not use TA because he decided he was going to do 5 and dive as an CGA grad. He needed to make sure his separation date worked.
    ~~ Sometimes they will release you without the payback, but that has more to do with force realignment.

    He might not have mentioned it because he owes 6 years AND it runs concurrent, thus, for him it would be years before this is an issue. Plus, each branch is different regarding how much they pay, etc.
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2014
  7. zrxkuma

    zrxkuma Member

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    The TA for Enlisted is different than what you're discussing for Officer. The Enlisted simply run a special request chit through their immediate chain of command and the local educational services office located on their base. Each command handles things differently as far as how many credits you can take which is usually under, never over, what the educational service office will authorize. There is no time owed by an Enlisted serviceman for using TA, and as long as they are active duty they can use it. Also, they will pay for CLEP exams. I have lots of sailors working for me who came in for the TA while active duty and GI bill upon completion of their enlistment.
     
  8. Sled

    Sled Member

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    Yes. I have watched the 60 minutes special and have come to terms with the lifestyle. The bases would keep me close to home (ND) so that is another positive for me. Financially it is the most sound decision I could make at this point. I shot an email to a member of our cadre who has time on missiles asking for more information. If the program is still ongoing I'll most likely apply. :smile:
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    My best hopes and wishes for you. You are a great example of what they are looking for...someone that has investigated and understands the career field.
     
  10. markbrown6

    markbrown6 Member

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    missiles

    There is much change happening now in missiles. People's experiences even just a couple years ago might not be relevant to your experience. Good luck digging out the information. It's a gamble but most good things in life are.
     
  11. EDelahanty

    EDelahanty Member

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    Why not Minot?
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Freezin is the reason!
     
  13. enskaisin

    enskaisin Member

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    13N-select here-just want to repeat again that the most important part right now is how fast everything is changing and how much the big AF honestly seems to be working to revamp the career field. The missileers I've talked to have been very open about the hardships of the job but also very positive about the changes they're seeing at a CGO level.

    In an effort to fight misinformation and drum up more cadets putting 13N on their dream sheets, current 13N CGOs have been going TDY to detachments to talk to cadets about missiles. We had one of these visits at my det and they focused on the changes they've made to testing including making it less frequent, to the exhausting schedule, to accession bonuses, to crossflow opportunities, etc.

    (Aside: One email to CGOs involved in this program said that last year 0 cadets put missiles in their top 3 on their dream sheets and only 15 had it on there at all. This year, 65 had it as top 3 (29 #1), and 174 cadets had it on there)

    Also, last year, 13Ns were EADing an average of weeks-3 months after commissioning. The biggest reason for the longer end of that was waiting on TS clearance things.

    http://www.afgsc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123431196

    "New and exciting times for missileers," indeed!
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That link should make the OP sit up and see that it is not four and door. It reads to me that the committment is 6 years.
     
  15. Sled

    Sled Member

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    I had heard it was more than 4 but as of now I would like to make a career out of the AF. Of course my view can change but that is where I stand as of now. If I can't get into this program my plan is to go rated. Indeed it seems like an exciting time for missileers!
     
  16. enskaisin

    enskaisin Member

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    All officers meet the crossflow board after three years (a handy pamphlet I was given says that 2/3 will be selected to continue with missiles and the CGO that visited my det said that more officers apply to stay than ask to crossflow); I haven't yet had to sign anything indicating that I understand I'm incurring an additional active duty service commitment like my rated friends did, so AFAIK, it's still just 4 like other non-rated officers. I'm considering my DD form 4/enlistment contract and official cadre form 16 counselings and I do not have a missile scholarship. An AS300 in my det has the missile scholarship (received after FT) and she said that she hasn't been given anything indicating a longer ADSO.

    But again, everything is always changing, and mo' money usually = mo' time, so definitely get these things clarified before signing your life away! :wink:
     
  17. sprog

    sprog Member

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    I was a missileer at Minot a little over 10 years-ago. Am out of the service now, but can tell you how it was. If you have any questions about the duty, just feel free to post and I'll answer if I can.

    And I'm aware of a lot of the changes to the career field, and they are for the better. So maybe my experience isn't that helpful, but alert is still the same.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  18. sprog

    sprog Member

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    And for what it's worth, making a missileer is relatively cheap. I mean, when you compare it to a pilot or a doctor or something like that. I did not have an ADSO outside of the usual ROTC one. That may be different with incentive scholarships now, but I haven't heard it from my buds still on active duty. Ask your instructors.

    Missile Initial Qualification Training (IQT) at Vandenberg AFB, California is about 3.5 months long. It consists of classroom work and simulations ("rides") in the Missile Procedures Trainer (MPT or "Box"). The Box is set up similar to the actual Launch Control Centers (LCCs or "Capsules") you will encounter once you are at the operational Wing. Back when the career field was with Space Ops, you had to go to a two-month-long course called Undergraduate Space and Missile Training (USMT) first, but I'm positive they've gotten rid of that since the career fields split and AFGSC stood up. After IQT, you leave Vandy for FE, Malmstrom, or Minot, and spend another month at Unit Qualification Training (UQT). Then, you certify as combat mission ready (CMR) and start pulling alerts...eight times a month as a Deputy Missile Combat Crew Commander (DMCCC).

    An interesting think to ask your ROTC instructors about is whether the move to Vandenberg is a TDY enroute or a PCS now. When I did it, because of the USMT requirement (and the lack of certainty regarding a start date), it was a PCS. I am not sure that is the case anymore, and it's something you'll want to know.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2014
  19. Sled

    Sled Member

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    The bad news is that the scholarship window has closed.

    The good news is that it is looking up for us AS200s. Typically EAs are 80% tech, 10% nontech, and 10% nursing. The word is that it will move to 70% Tech, 20%nontech, and 10% nursing. Also this year's class is looking smaller than typical. :shake:

    I've also recieved some Det. specific information. I am part of a Det. that has two wings and if we were to break off and be our own detachment we would have the highest GPA and close to the highest PFA score in the entire NW region. The Col said we typically have higher than average selection rates and our class is honestly the best he has seen in many years. Hope is not lost.
     

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