AFROTC ACT Choice?

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by KKreis, Sep 24, 2016.

  1. KKreis

    KKreis Member

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    My son retook the SAT. His original composite was a 31 and he improved to 32. But his math score is better on the earlier test, 33 on earlier, 31 on this test. The change came from 3 point increases in reading and science and a 1 point increase in English.

    Do we submit the new score or not?

    Thanks for the advice.
     
  2. Love4monsters

    Love4monsters Member

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    It appears his other areas went up so as long as they super score - I would submit them. They will take the highest score in each area. Son is completely portal stalking ACT every Wednesday and Friday. Took the ACT on 9/9 and scores aren't back yet. He needs the writing score primarily but felt really confident about all areas. His June ACT was excellent but he didn't take the writing.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That is incorrect. USAFA will superscore, but AFROTC WILL NOT superscore. AFROTC is best sitting.

    I would still submit them and let AFROTC determine which is the best sitting. In this case I would say they will take the 2nd as best since the superscore is higher. His M would be a 31, and not the 33. 33 would be used if they superscore system.

    That being said from the PAR aspect a 32 best sitting is at the high end of the spectrum for AFROTC scholarships. They use the WCS (Whole Candidate Score), and care about their intended major, which is important to understand. A candidate with a best sitting of 32, uwcgpa of 3.5, top 15% of the HS class, majoring in a non-tech curriculum, and no sports or no leadership can find out that they went from a type 1 to a type 7 very quickly. Hence the word WHOLE in the WCS.

    Good luck. Personally for me, I would submit it and move on to getting their medical records in order for the DoDMERB exam. Not saying he will get a scholarship, but if offered one, and not applying for USAFA, they will send him to the exam upon awarding the scholarship. If there is something in his medical records that flags him for a remedial or waiver it can take as little as a few weeks to as much as several months. This is important to know because come May when you have to make a deposit for his #1 college, if the only way you can afford him/her to attend is the AFROTC scholarship than you don't want to be waiting for the waiver to know if he can contract in the fall.

    PS: AFROTC is not like USAFA. They do not care what district or state you come from. If they have 1000 scholarships to award and all 1000 are from Cali, than oh well. It starts and ends with a national board with no preference to the states. They are also not like A/NROTC where they portion out to units how many can be on scholarship. Just like the state aspect, they could care less if Notre Dame had 100% on scholarship and Timbucktoo University had 0%. The scholarship is tied to the cadet and their major, not to the detachment. They do have in common one thing with NROTC. 80-85% of recipients are tech aka STEM majors.
    ~ Do not try to game the system and put tech as intended major thinking that in the spring of their freshmen year they can change to a non-tech major. It is beyond rare that they will allow them to keep their scholarship if they go tech to non-tech. That becomes a problem if you need the scholarship to attend that college.
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2016
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  4. Love4monsters

    Love4monsters Member

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    Notice the ****as long as they super score****

    I wasn't sure but thanks for clarifying. Can the writing be on a separate ACT?
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Last I knew they do not care about the writing ACT.
     
  6. gill0610

    gill0610 Member

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    Similar question. DS composite score went down when he retook his act. First sitting 31 composite. 2nd sitting 30 composite. However his math went way up on the second sitting. Went from a 28 to a 33! English scores dropped significantly bringing his composite score down. Should he submit his 2nd sitting or not?
     
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    It is best sitting. In your Ds's case 1st is best since it is 31.

    Caveat: AFROTC is the only ROTC that does best and not superscore.

    A 31 for AFROTC best sitting is very competitive. However, remember that the ACT is only a portion of the PAR (Prior Academic Record...PAR includes cgpa, class rank, curriculum rigor, etc.) They are also going to look at ECs too and intended major, recs and AFA.
    ~36 Best sitting and no ECs can ding them just as fast if they are a non tech major.
     
  8. gill0610

    gill0610 Member

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    Thanks Pima. Sounds like he should submit both scores for Army and just his first ones for Air Force. He is ranked 6 out of 430 with a 3 .98 unweighted Gpa. Multiple AP classes and dual enrollment at local university this year. Varsity baseball , part time job and a decent amount of volunteering. Honors society member and recipient of Dwight D Eusenhower award. Scholarship applications are complete with the exception of the interview for Air Force. So now we wait...
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    You can submit both for AFROTC too. The only difference is HQ AFROTC will just ditch the 2nd one because the 1st is a better best sitting.

    The thing to remember is that the scholarships are national. We, as parents want to always believe our kids go to the most competitive HS, but remember that there are over 20,000 HS in the nation, and that does not include homeschoolers. I place very little weight into a 3.98 uwcgpa or rank because I don't know the rigor of your HS. Not to be rude, but dual and AP is common place now.
    ~ AFROTC also differs from AROTC because their senior yr is not a factor. It includes only what they did through their junior yr. Dual enrollment or AP this yr will not be part of their PAR.

    I place little weight regarding uwcgpa or ranking. There are too many variables from a boarding aspect. 3.98 and 6 out of 430 sounds great. However, without knowing how many go 4 yr Ivy vs 4 yr Private/OOS Public vs 4 yr IS vs CC vs work force it means nothing. Same without knowing if anybody can take AP or if you must have pre-reqs. This is where the GC comes into play and will submit a school profile.
    ~ I.E You attend a school where nobody historically went to an IVY, top 10% go 4 YR Private, but another candidate that is top 10% and attends a school where 25% go Ivy.
    ~ You attend a school where you cannot take any AP class until a sr., yet another school you can take AP as a sophomore. They are not going to ding you because you couldn't do it until you were a senior. They will ding you if you could have taken APs your entire HS career. Part of your transcript is the school profile. Part of the profile is how many APs offered, pre-reqs., and % of students that take the AP/IB classes. At least that is what it was for may kids in both NC and VA.

    They look at all of that together. Hence, if you read somebody had the same stats and got X type scholarship last year, take it with a grain of salt. Biggest reason why? There is a limited pot of gold for AFROTC scholarships. Nobody knows what this years candidate pool looks like, nor how many are applying. Smaller pool with a larger pot of money and the stats will look different than a larger pool with a smaller pot of money.

    On face value do I think he looks good? Yep. However, when you look at the fact that only 5% of all AFROTC scholarships are type 1 or about 50 nationally. I am not sure. Only 15% are type 2. The majority are type 7.

    The point is as you go down this path you need to have a real heart to heart with DS.
    1. College is not 24/7/365 days a yr for 4 yrs.
    ~ It is 21-24 hrs in class, 30 weeks a year where you get to choose your major and where you get to choose where you go. Army and AF is not that way. They will say where you will go, when you will go, and what your career will be.
    ~ AF really does not offer that Guard or Reserve option. You are going Active Duty.
    ~ Army life is not like the AF life. AF is called the "corporate" branch. Duty day is 8-4 for chair desk officers. PT for the AF is playing golf and having to carry their clubs.
    2. AFROTC is different than all of the ROTC branches.
    ~ They must apply and get selected for Summer Field Training (SFT) as a sophomore. The selection board does not know or care if the cadet is on scholarship. It is what is called masked/blind. No SFT may = disenrollment from AFROTC. Have you discussed how will you pay for that dream college without the ROTC scholarship?
    3. What if after his 1st yr he wants to leave ROTC? Can you afford him to stay?
    4. AFROTC is like NROTC 80-85% of recipients are STEM aka Tech majors.
    ~ If he decides after fall semester he wants to go from Engineering to Business, he will than be required to get approval to keep the scholarship. Chances are he will not get approved. He can stay in AFROTC, but will lose his scholarship.
    5. Career fields.
    ~ Let's say he wants to fly and decides to major in EE. The thing is in the past they (HQ AFROTC) has come down and said certain degrees are critical manned. What does that mean? It means let's say they major in Computer Engineering with the intention to become a pilot upon graduation/commissioning. He gets the AFROTC scholarship, however in 2020 when they are up for the UPT board HQ ADAF says we are short in the cyber world and need more computer guys. We will only take the top 10% of Computer candidates for UPT.
    ~~ Yep, they did that about 2 or 3 yrs ago for EEs, or maybe it was MEs, but you get the pt.
    ~~~ In essence, he got the school paid for, but now he didn't get his career field he wanted...see point number 1.

    This is not a 4 yr game plan. This is a 9 yr game plan on a good day. The 4 yr clock does not start upon the day you pin his butter bars on. The clock starts the minute they report to their 1st base. For the AF, that usually means about 3-6 months after commissioning. Right now for him that means Sept. 2025.

    I am not trying to be debbie downer. I am trying to make sure you have removed the illusion of the scholarship and thought about every aspect that what is about to come down the pike sooner or later if you go AFROTC scholarship.

    I would pm clarkson or jcleppe regarding AROTC and their finesse issues.

    Good luck to you and your family. Thank your DS for wanting to defend this amazing nation.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    OBTW if he wants to fly...for the AF, this is not a 9 yr plan...more like a 15 yr plan.
    4 yrs college= 2021
    1 yr wait for UPT=2022
    1 yr UPT = 2023
    9 yrs owed upon winging= 2032

    That is the current timeframe. Who knows, maybe in 2021 the wait will be 3 months to start UPT, and reduce the commitment to 7 yrs, but still that means it will be @2030 before he and the AF will part ways. 2030!

    I only throw in flying because it is hard to understand going Army or AF without thinking something like Helos, STO, CRO.
    ~ Bullet (my DH) jumped out of perfectly good airplanes as an ALO (not the USAFA type) with the 82nd as an F15E WSO. DS is a C130J pilot that drops those guys out of perfectly good airplanes.

    However, the mission is totally different, and neither of them ever wanted to be in a tank in the sandbox if they didn't get rated. Just like neither ever wanted to be in the Navy on a boat (no offense to them) as a flier.
    ~ Bullet and DS joke the reason they wanted to be in the AF over the Navy was because after a long mission they liked the fact the runway was in the same place they left at when they took off!

    I truly adore the Army. Bullet did 2 tours (Bragg and CGSC) as an ADAF officer. I have so much respect for them. That being said...I liked being a spouse of the "corporate branch" where you never ever heard if they wanted you to have a spouse they would have issued you one. A branch where it is uncommon for an AD Chair officer (aka AF) to not be home by 4:45 or your kids soccer game. Deployments = 4 to 6 months at tops every 12-18 mos.

    Now lets also be honest about AFROTC compared to AROTC it is much easier to hop over to the Guard or Reserve as an AROTC cadet. There is no 2+2 scholarship like AFROTC aka SFT. Get a scholarship, maintain that 2.5 cgpa and you are good. AFROTC it is 2 yrs, get SFT and you continue on for 2 more yrs.
    ~ To get SFT you need a 3.0 tech/ 3,3 historically for cgpa as an AFROTC cadet.

    AROTC is tied to the cadet and the school. They really don't care about your major. AFROTC is tied to the cadet and the major, they only care about the school to the fact that they accept an AFROTC scholarship.

    Welcome to the world of finesse. Neither is better. Neither is worse. They are just different from the get go.
     
  11. gill0610

    gill0610 Member

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    Wow. Thanks for all the great info. DS intends to go ROTC regardless of whether he gets a scholarship. His dream school (Clemson) has already indicated he would be eligible for a merit scholarship that means that it would be a stretch but not impossible for him to attend from a financial perspective without an ROTC scholarship. He currently has no interest in flying and wants active duty. I will say that he has always taken rigorous courses and has maintained straight As. While he may not attend the most competitive high school I believe his ACT score is something that is more of a level playing field. (SAT was 1360 best sitting too). Didn't think to ask ... Should he submit SAT scores too. Would he be better using that for AFROTC due to the weak math on his best sitting. SAT was 700 math 660 reading best sitting.
     

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