AFROTC EA stats

OBTW, remember for every cadet attending FT, it is living and breathing it.

I cannot stress enough how those strangers will impact your OML. It is part of your score for AFSC. It is a point system, just like PME in the AD.

Run, run, run your arse off in all weather until you go. 95% humidity with 100 degrees will lower your score. If you scored a 92 and never train, train!

If you are from Maine, push it because acclimating to MS will be an issue.

I believe SFT ranking is @15%, someone else can give the actual number. Right now before you go, the only thing you can control is your ability to max the PF.

Also, learn how to sleep on top of your bed. :lolatyou: This way in the a.m. you can just flatten it out instead of remaking it! :wink:
 
homewith4
Tech major
3.72 GPA
100% PFT
AFOQT Unknown
CC Rank middle third

muddster89
Non-Tech
3.68 CGPA
96.3PFA
1120SAT
CC Rank Unknown

Ieatsquirrels
Non-Tech
GPA: 3.44
PFA: 96.7%
ACT: 20
CC Rank Unknown

JeRDLe
Non-Tech
3.44 GPA
99% PFA
1320 SAT
CC Rank bottom third

bpenguin
Tech Major (Computer Science)
CGPA: 3.5
AFOQT AA 77
PFA: 96.8
Ranking: Unknown, but probably middle third

StrikeGently
Non-Tech
CGPA: 3.27
PFA: 94
ACT: 31
Ranking: Unsure, but most likely top 1/3

Norix
Tech
3.3 GPA
99.3% PFA
ACT 28
CC Rank unknown

utlee
non-tech
commander's ranking: top third
PFA: 94
GPA:3.81
ACT:27

Powers45
non-tech
3.41 GPA
100% PFA
SAT 1150
CC Rank unknown

WorleyT
non-tech
3.093 GPA
90.7% PFA
SAT 1140
CC Rank unknown

AirForceTrojan
Non-Tech
GPA 3.47
PFA 95.2
SAT: ~1950
ACT: 30
AFOQT: Aptitude: 93, Verbal: 86, Quantative: 91
CC Ranking: Middle Third

Moosestache
GPA 3.5 non tech
PT 92%
SAT 1300
They weren't told the Commander's Rankings.
He was a 250 student

Eagle 1
Non-Tech
GPA: 3.528
PFA: 97
ACT: 27
CC Rank: Top Third

Frisbforce
Tech (research meteorology)
GPA: 3.0
PFA: 100
SAT: 1240
CC Rank: Top Third

kevster
non-tech (Gov and politics)
GPA:3.76
PFA: 95
SAT:1220
CC rank: top 1/3
 
Pima said:
AFROTC mimics ADAF.

The CC has a DO that reports to the CC. The FC reports to the DO. The officer is reviewed by the FC that pushes it up the chain of the command.

In the AFROTC world, the AD instructors have FCC's write reviews. Know that because DS was an FCC and had to write them. That AD instructor reviews it just like the DO in the AD world, and from there it goes to the CC.

FCC's and CCC's meet weekly prior to PT and discuss the cadets with AD leadership. C100/200's may have a show time of 6 a.m., but FCC and CWC will be there at 5 a.m.

Yes, you are correct the CC doesn't spend a heck of a lot of time with the cadets, but the fact is their decision came up the line. They were taking the recs from other people too.

The CC had the final voice, but there were many voices he listened to during the yr.

It is not as if the CC just goes off on what little he knows from interaction. The cadet has just like the AD world, a performance review, and it will include things, like jobs within the det., PF scores, cgpa, AFOQT/SAT, national awards, etc.

The CC will place that into the equation. He may feel that the 3.2 cgpa in EE with a 96 PF and a 1300 SAT is stronger than the 3.4 cgpa Business, 97 PF and 1320 SAT.

That is where the qualitative comes in.

As I stated in the AD world it works the same way. The NCOIC will write their rec., the officer he reports to will sign off. (Actually has 2 boxes...concur or do not concur), the CC will sign off, the Wing King will sign off. The wing king that has 5K AD members reporting doesn't know every officer, let alone every enlisted. He is placing faith and listening to his/her chain regarding their decision.

The exact same thing that the O6 is doing in AFROTC. It is not personal, it is professional. If anyone makes a judgement that impacts the cadet's ranking, the cadet should look at the C300/400's because they are the 1st line in the process. The AD officers will look to the CWC/CVWC because they know all of the cadets. The CWC/CVWC will look to the FCC because it is their flight. The FCC may look to the PT instructor for guidance regarding the cadet.

It is actually a bottom up approach, not a top down approach. As you can see there were about 4 voices the CC heard, and although I do not know, but if they do the concur/do not concur, the CC has as much interaction with the cadet as the E-3 has with the CC in ADAF.

Even for ADAF officers, I will bet my avatar (beloved dog) that the avg wing king does not know every O3 up for O4 when it comes to PRFs. They try, but if the officer wasn't wearing a name tag, they would bump into them at Wal-Mart on a Saturday, apologize and move on as if they were a stranger. Look at the Pentagon, the running joke is if you are an O4 your job is to get coffee! Yet, there will be a GO signing off on that PRF!
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Sort of going in circles here, but, I don't disagree with you at all, its just that I was trying to figure out why the USAF might be doing things differently than they had in the past.

The big thing I keep coming to is there is minimal interaction between the commanding officers, upperclassmen, and the underclassmen. There just plain isn't time enough for that to happen. Then throw the 250 candidates into the mix. I'm sure the USAF is constantly looking at their process and they probably saw that the Commander's rankings weren't jiving with the type of candidate they wanted as officers. Lets say the standardized tests ended up being a much better indicator for the type of candidate they wanted. That could explain the reason for the change.
 
Bullet said this to me yrs ago when he had @5 yrs in. My job is to say my opinion, and than to salute sharply and follow their order.

Instead of us going round and round, let's agree that for every cadet that is what they need as guidance.
 
Congrats to all!

Curious, usually when they give the good news they also know the stats behind it, not only % going out of the original pool, but the cgpa avg.

Looking at such high non-tech cgpas, did they tell you what the cgpa was as the avg?



homewith4
Tech major
3.72 GPA
100% PFT
AFOQT Unknown
CC Rank middle third

muddster89
Non-Tech
3.68 CGPA
96.3PFA
1120SAT
CC Rank Unknown

Ieatsquirrels
Non-Tech
GPA: 3.44
PFA: 96.7%
ACT: 20
CC Rank Unknown

JeRDLe
Non-Tech
3.44 GPA
99% PFA
1320 SAT
CC Rank bottom third

bpenguin
Tech Major (Computer Science)
CGPA: 3.5
AFOQT AA 77
PFA: 96.8
Ranking: Unknown, but probably middle third

StrikeGently
Non-Tech
CGPA: 3.27
PFA: 94
ACT: 31
Ranking: Unsure, but most likely top 1/3

Norix
Tech
3.3 GPA
99.3% PFA
ACT 28
CC Rank unknown

utlee
non-tech
commander's ranking: top third
PFA: 94
GPA:3.81
ACT:27

Powers45
non-tech
3.41 GPA
100% PFA
SAT 1150
CC Rank unknown

WorleyT
non-tech
3.093 GPA
90.7% PFA
SAT 1140
CC Rank unknown

AirForceTrojan
Non-Tech
GPA 3.47
PFA 95.2
SAT: ~1950
ACT: 30
AFOQT: Aptitude: 93, Verbal: 86, Quantative: 91
CC Ranking: Middle Third

Moosestache
GPA 3.5 non tech
PT 92%
SAT 1300
They weren't told the Commander's Rankings.
He was a 250 student

Eagle 1
Non-Tech
GPA: 3.528
PFA: 97
ACT: 27
CC Rank: Top Third

Frisbforce
Tech (research meteorology)
GPA: 3.0
PFA: 100
SAT: 1240
CC Rank: Top Third

kevster
non-tech (Gov and politics)
GPA:3.76
PFA: 95
SAT:1220
CC rank: top 1/3

Palindrome
Non-Tech
GPA: 3.13
PFA: 92.8
ACT: 24
CC Rank: Top Third
 
Pima said:
Congrats to all!

Curious, usually when they give the good news they also know the stats behind it, not only % going out of the original pool, but the cgpa avg.

Looking at such high non-tech cgpas, did they tell you what the cgpa was as the avg?
Click to expand...
The tech cpgas on here are very impressive as well! Great job everybody.
 
I agree Packer,

Looking at the entire list I think the avg has to be higher than it was even when the selection rate was at 55-60% nationally.
 
I have been looking at the SAT scores and have been wondering if you guys are counting it out of 1600 (for two sections) or out of 2400 (all three sections.)
 
My son's score was based on the math and verbal sections, which is traditionally what colleges look at. There was one poster who had 1950 which obviously was on all three, but I assume the other scores were based upon just those two.
 
Moosetache is correct it is M/V. A 1120 out of 2400 typically will result in a lot of TWE from colleges. You get 200 points just for filling out your name. 1120 would = 370 on avg for each section.

The other reason for it to be only M/V is a few yrs ago they switched when the cadet "must" take the AFOQT. It use to be C100 yr., for FT selection, now it is later, so they need to convert he ACT/SAT score to the AFOQT equivalent.

Hint to 17 applicants, that SAT/ACT will not only impact your scholarship chances it will impact your FT chances.

Nobody here is ADAF in MPC and knows the AF's strategic man power needs for 5 yrs from now. You can not, and should not assume because this yr they had 90%+, it will be that way in 2 yrs from now. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

When DS entered in 08, the FT rate was in the 65-70% with a 3.0 cgpa for non-tech. No cadet was given walking papers as a 400 if they maintained the gpa and kept their nose clean.

In 10, it was a 55% rate, 3.2+ for non-techs, and 400's were handed walking papers 90 days prior to commissioning.

It can change that quickly. I am not trying to scare anyone, I am trying to stress to everyone, that AFROTC is built like a house. The stronger the foundation (SAT/ACT), cgpa, etc. the better the chance you will survive the hurricane. That each brick you place down will help you in yrs to come.

If your weakness is athleticism, use the summer to train because it will be a foundation block for scholarship and as a cadet regarding OML.

If your weakness is academics, put down the Xbox, study the SAT/ACT because it will be with you until you are a sophomore in college.

~~~ AFROTC does not superscore. It is best sitting. So do not assume that these scores are mix and match from 6 tests. They aren't, it is the best out of the 6.

Finally, for 16 and 17's, looking at the avg SAT score for most scholarship recipients, it is hovering near 1300+/- depending on the type.

This important because as we have seen with 14's the cgpa really jumped up from previous yrs. I would assume that will be true for 15's+ regarding SAT/ACT. 15 was the yr that they cut ROTC scholarships and those stats were much higher than 14 and earlier. 16 too.

It is all going to come down to the stats for each yr., previous yrs are predictors, but not something you should ever bet on as a safety.

Sorry for diverting, but it appeared to me there are posters looking to the future using this yr as a gauge.
 
Pima said:
In 10, it was a 55% rate, 3.2+ for non-techs, and 400's were handed walking papers 90 days prior to commissioning.
Click to expand...

Just curious again about how AFROTC works.

You said that 400's were handed walking papers 90 days before commissioning. What would cause them to be let go, I assume the 3.2GPA was for FT.

That quote alone would certainly scare me far away from AFROTC without knowing the details.
 
First, the 3.2 cgpa is a ballpark unspoken rule for non-tech EA selection. Look at the EA selection rate, as cadets they needed that cgpa to get FT. As 300's some may face an AFSC board, and you can only meet it if you went to FT. Overall AFROTC is like AROTC and a 2.5 min is the break point. Now, knowing that as a 300, the board meets after fall semester, pretty hard to drop below 2.5 cgpa. for the last 3 semesters, especially if you want rated! If you are not selected rated you go to a non-rated board, which would be your 400 yr. CGPA matters for OML. Rated does not come out until @ mid-terms. You can't assume you will get rated, so you will keep up your grades. If you go non-rated the board does not happen until your SR. yr. as a 400.

That is why it is an unspoken rule to keep your gpa at the level you had as an EA selection.

It is scary, but you must remember a lot has to do with manpower needs.

In 10, the AFA was downsizing, thus they cut them loose, no obligation payback be it money or time served.

Every service does this, look at Gojira's DS who was cut this past Dec., shortly before commissioning. Harder for him because the Navy demanded $$$ or time.

I hate to say it, but the reason I state the Devil is in the Details is due to the fact that this happens in every branch.

Assume means what we all think. Makes an Arse out of U and Me.

I am not in any shape, or form trying to frighten anyone. I am trying to illustrate that signing on the dotted line when you contract has an impact in your life. Ignorance and arrogance are not an excuse.

You are 18. You are a legal adult. In their eyes you are responsible and the folks can't save you because they pay the tuition. You took money (stipend) went on TDY's using military money. They own you!

Again, don't believe me, look at Gojira's threads, how they now in 2012 are paying for an attorney because of NROTC! Not AFROTC, NROTC.

Old adage in the AF, don't believe anything until the incoming base welcomes you!

I know I am seen as Janie Raincloud. I accept that fact. I would rather someone like me tell me the worst and not sugar coat anything than it be all cotton candy and unicorns.

Every posters choice on how they want to perceive what may be in their future.

I want every candidate and poster to go, yet I want them to be able to transition from HS to college in ROTC with a realistic perspective.
 
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You right, Gojira's son was released from NROTC just prior to commissioning, there were however other issues beside downsizing that led to that dismissal.

I was just wondering what would cause a AFROTC 400 cadet to be dismissed from the program so close to commissioning, did they drop below the GPA min., fail the PFT, or some other issue. Were they just dropped becaise the AF was downsizing and those at the lower end were the first to go.

The Army is different in this regard. As long as the cadet stays within the minimum standards they will be commissioned, whether they get Active Duty becomes the issue then. If the Army needs to downsize the number of officers they cut the number that will go Active Duty and send more to Reserves.

Sorry for all the questions, I have a family friend whos son is considering AFROTC, I'm going to get them to join in here to get more information.
 
Jcleppe said:
Sorry for all the questions, I have a family friend whos son is considering AFROTC, I'm going to get them to join in here to get more information.
Click to expand...
I am glad you keep asking the questions because I keep learning more!
 
For the class of 10 cadet(400) that was released, it was manpower needs. Plain and simple.

AF at the time was also releasing AFA grads that busted rides out of UPT. That is always the scariest. You can take a pilot and make them a maintenance officer, but you can't do the same if they were maintenance to begin with. They don't call rated the MILLION DOLLAR officer for laughs, they call them that because it costs this amount plus to train to become operational.

The yr group was over manned. These cadets were not going into critically manned fields.

AF knew/saw downsizing in front of the road. They opted to start cutting to stop the hemorraging from my personnel perspective. It was not a shock to me, because the AF is traditionally, the 1st in, and 1st out operationally. In FY09/10 (commission for 10), the AF was not really involved in the conflicts/war. Army and Navy were.

Army and Navy could not downsize. Now look at the AROTC boards, clarkson and Marist's post. They are where AFROTC was yrs ago. Less scholarships, shedding cadets.

In the end of the day it all has to do with OP tempo and budgets. AF is going to decrease in the DOD personnel plan by the least amount. IMPO, that is because AF was the 1st in, 1st out and already cut. Army and Navy couldn't cut prior because of op tempo, yet, they will still cut to make their goals. Marines are a great example.

JMPO, but I think class of AFROTC 14+ will find it is not as hard as it was for class of 13-

As far as Gojira's DS, I will leave that alone for her to answer. I do know the background in the story, I assume you do too. If you do, than you have a position regarding hiring an attorney. Point is if you agree with her, you will also agree there is BS...8 lbs!
 
Pima said:
For the class of 10 cadet(400) that was released, it was manpower needs. Plain and simple.

AF at the time was also releasing AFA grads that busted rides out of UPT. That is always the scariest. You can take a pilot and make them a maintenance officer, but you can't do the same if they were maintenance to begin with. They don't call rated the MILLION DOLLAR officer for laughs, they call them that because it costs this amount plus to train to become operational.

The yr group was over manned. These cadets were not going into critically manned fields.

AF knew/saw downsizing in front of the road. They opted to start cutting to stop the hemorraging from my personnel perspective. It was not a shock to me, because the AF is traditionally, the 1st in, and 1st out operationally. In FY09/10 (commission for 10), the AF was not really involved in the conflicts/war. Army and Navy were.

Army and Navy could not downsize. Now look at the AROTC boards, clarkson and Marist's post. They are where AFROTC was yrs ago. Less scholarships, shedding cadets.

In the end of the day it all has to do with OP tempo and budgets. AF is going to decrease in the DOD personnel plan by the least amount. IMPO, that is because AF was the 1st in, 1st out and already cut. Army and Navy couldn't cut prior because of op tempo, yet, they will still cut to make their goals. Marines are a great example.

JMPO, but I think class of AFROTC 14+ will find it is not as hard as it was for class of 13-

As far as Gojira's DS, I will leave that alone for her to answer. I do know the background in the story, I assume you do too. If you do, than you have a position regarding hiring an attorney. Point is if you agree with her, you will also agree there is BS...8 lbs!
Click to expand...

Totally agree with you regarding Gojira's Son, BS is not a strong enough word for that situation.

I agree that AROTC is shedding some cadets, the difference it seems between the Army and AF is that AROTC does the shedding prior to contracting, once contracted they no longer release them unless the cadet falls below the minimums or has other issues that would break the contract. Should downsizing occur the contracted excess cadets would be sent to Reserves based on their placement on the OML, not released outright. From what your saying the AF can just release a cadet that is within the Minimums prior to commissioning if they are over their quota for that year.

I certainly agree with you, if you elect to go AFROTC, you better be prepared for anything.
 
You have to remember that the C400 that graduated in FY10, started the process in 05, entered in 06, went to FT in 08, AFSC 09. The budget issues didn't start hitting the fan until 09, which would be FY10. As an AFROTC cadet most will not go AD for months, that would place him on the FY11 roles. By that time the AF had already announced not only VSP, RIF and SERB, but also started reducing promotion rates for O4 and O5's. This was on top of announcing that the AFA would reduce the incoming class size for 15. Plus, they had cancelled OCS boards in 11.

That is truly my point. A 17 cadet is starting now, and nobody knows what 5 yrs from now will look like when they graduate.

I say it all the time, don't enter for "ONE" career field, because that pipeline may close when it is your time, and now you have 4 yrs to serve in a job you may never have wanted.

When DS entered EE's in AFROTC got rated slots. TY because EE is seen as a critically undermanned field, they are not allowed to apply for rated and will go EE, however, it may be by the time 16 graduates they will be overmanned and allow them to go rated. If that cadet in 08 applied for AFROTC scholarship, and received one, but only wanted to fly, his/her dream ended for right now.

At our DS's unit only one did not get rated for Class of 11, and that was because they majored in a critically undermanned language. One for 13 didn't get it and they were EE. Majors are players when you go up for your AFSC and they can change yr to yr.

Nobody can say for 16 or 17 what will be that critical AFSC.

Again, I don't want people running for the hills. It is important to understand that from a manpower need it will always change, and you need to place that into the equation.

Go this route with a major you are willing to work in for 4 yrs. Don't enter thinking this is my best chance for XYZ AFSC, be it rated, intel, etc. In 2 yrs from now if you enter as an acct. major and they need it for A & F, you can find yourself as an A& F officer.
 
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