AFROTC - EAs

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Tetris, Feb 24, 2011.

  1. Tetris

    Tetris New Member

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    Hey all, first time poster, long time lurker.

    I joined today to just speak my mind on matters I find somewhat amusing - Enrollment Allocations.
    I see stats of cadets that seem like reasonable applicants freaking out over the possibility of not getting an EA.

    Hello! There are 2,200 slots being given out. Yes more so to Tech Majors than Non-Tech, but quit saying "they're only accepting 40%!"

    Look at it this way, 40% is the amount had there been the original 5,000+ AS200 cadets getting packages sent in. But there is not going to be that many being sent in this year.

    Look at your Detachment. How many AS200s/250s have dropped the program since the start of the year? I want you to consider that. At a couple Detachments in a 40 mile radius, there were ~40 AS200s at the beginning of the year. Now they're down to high 20s and low 30s. About a 25% drop rate? That's bound to happen on the national scale. Maybe not that high, but let's give it a 20% drop rate. 20% of 5,000 is 1,000 cadets. ~4,000 packages being sent.

    2,200/4,000 = 55%

    Not much less from last year and much higher from the start of this year.

    Quit stressing over Max 6 being removed and the rumors of 1,800 slots - it's false. They are just increasing the numbers at the remaining Max 1-5. Still 2,200 EAs to be given.

    Then look at the number of EAs that get declined/taken away due to random reasons. This number is always in the hundreds. Meaning those on the border end up getting their EAs.

    As long as you're doing well in your Det, you're getting your EA. I don't care if you're Tech or not, and I don't care if stats are looked at on the national level. Your Det is a small part of that national whole.

    If you're top third in ranking at your Det, imagine where you are on the national scale. Relatively the same part. Think about it, if you don't get your slot but you're top third, the rest of your class isn't getting one, making a detachment drop in size dramatically - plus the motivation to get new recruited cadets will be even smaller. Dets need cadets to survive.

    This is all. If you have any arguments on this, feel free to fire them at me, but I know for a fact most of you here with your stats are getting EAs. You obviously care about the program enough to be stressing this much, I'm sure you've spoken the stuff you've typed out to your commander and they acknowledge this.

    Good luck to all. :thumb:
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Curiosity, but where did you find the 2200 number? The class of 12 only has 1800 for AFSC for every cadet. They didn't have 100% going to SFT.

    Not trying to be antagonistic, just curious of where you got that 2200 number.

    I do agree Maxwell 6 was canceled, but all that means is they will have a larger cadre for 1-5.

    I also agree many of these candidates have very strong stats, and should not fear the future. However, this site also exists to talk openly about a world that "real world" students and parents don't get. They don't understand that from the minute their feet hit the parade grounds for ROTC it is all about their career after graduating. Posters here get that.

    Anyone in the AFROTC world knows, that next yr it will be another board...AFSC, CAREER and the lack of SFT will be hard to overcome for their AFSC. I personally believe their fear is related to how it will play out for AFSC.

    I think your heart and post was written with all of the best intentions. I am just saying don't read too much into it. They want to vent. They want to in a private atmosphere discuss their concerns. We exist to listen.
     
  3. afrotc

    afrotc New Member

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    My commander told us that max-6 being cancelled meant that those 280 will be spread out amongst max 1-5 and the amount of EA's is not decreased.
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    That is true. The difference is there will just be more flights for Maxwell 1-5. The real question will be the number of slots allotted.

    Nobody here is at Maxwell, nobody here can state positively the amount of cadets that will go and what the mins needed to make that cut off.

    Hope for the best is all anyone can do.

    I am just not ready to bite off that 2200 are going, when only 1800 for Class of 12 are going to be commissioned into the AF. We all know that the AF is going through major re-structuring...when the AFA decreases apptmt by @ 15% for the class of 15, and will reduce even more for 16 and 17 than we all can see the writing is on the wall. If that isn't a blaring sign, the fact that OCS was canceled last July should also be a big red light.

    I am not trying to be Janie Rain Cloud. I am saying I just don't get that 2200 number for SFT in these economic times. AFROTC always has, always will take a back seat to the AFA.
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2011
  5. WJUW

    WJUW Member

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    My O-4 told me that the board met up and finished today (the HQ has the results now).

    The results will reach the det's in about two weeks. Good luck to everyone who is waiting!
     
  6. Tetris

    Tetris New Member

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    Class of 12 had 2,200 cadets go to FT. I can see 1800 commissioning. Think about it. Not everyone completed FT. Also, cadets still drop or are disenrolled as AS300s/400s etc. I can see 400 dropping within the 2 years after Field Training, just look at the size of the AS300 class at your detachment compared to the AS400 size.

    It all makes sense.
     
  7. WJUW

    WJUW Member

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    Hi Tetris,

    my statement is out of curiosity more than anything. Your numbers are all correct. But I do not understand how your argument is relevant to your previous argument that the 200s/250s should be too concerned. The EAs happen before FT. We are not talking about AFSC slots but tickets to FT.

    Also, 1800 is the goal based on historical data. The AF could commission more, or fewer cadets.
     
  8. airpower99

    airpower99 New Member

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    Wow, our nominations were just sent yesterday! It only took them one day to decide who is going and who isn't? :eek:
     
  9. WJUW

    WJUW Member

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    I don't know about that. But everything is numbers in the system. You are not a "who" in the system, you are a number with major. Sorry it sounds harsh. But many aspects of you are represented by your commander's ranking which is 50 percent.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    FWIW between the 300 and 400 yr at our DS's det the drop off is not huge. The huge drop is between 100 and 200.


    My point was and still is that even in his 300 yr not every cadet went to SFT, only @40% went, but even them will get an AFSC, which takes me back to the numbers of 1800 are going to be commissioned, 100%. If only 50% go and 2200 are that number, you would have 4400 total...a drop of 60% in 300 because the AFSC comes out as a 300.

    Again at our DS's det he only knows 2 300's that walked away this yr. Not even close to 5% of the 300's. At his det only 1/3 of them applied Rated for AFSC, the other 2/3 are going non-rated. The rated got 10 out of 10, i.e. 100%. 2 of them on the rated did not go to SFT, which now messes with that 2200 number and only 1800 are left.

    In today's economy with the job market not looking pretty it is hard to walk away from a guaranteed job with a good starting salary, plus knowing that somehow you will need to financially pick up the tab if you were contracted.

    The one that walked away, also got hit with a 35+K bill...tuition, books, and stipend. The AF is tightening their money everywhere. Heck, there is an AFA10 grad who voluntarily DOR out of UPT. The AF is requiring he pay back his AFA education. :eek:

    When cadets start hearing things like that, and gossip moves faster than a sneeze in dets., they start to think long and hard about saying I am outta here.

    I also do understand your feelings about just deal with it. Yet, again, one thing is that when this is such a life altering event, positive or negative, you just want to talk it out. It is one reason why this site has become so successful. The college dorm mate who is not ROTC doesn't get the concern. Most cadets will not want to show their fears to other cadets. The folks if they have never been in ROTC or the military will be folks, and tell you not to worry about it, you'll get it.

    It is a site like this that gets it, also relieves the pressure valve when you hear them saying, statistically from previous yrs you look good. Or how they should approach the subject to their CC.

    Anyone who went through an EA or SFT or AFSC board can tell you unless you are ranked number 1 in the cadre with a tech major and a 4.0 there is always going to be that sense of doubt. It is human nature.

    I am not 100% positive, but for some reason I believe AFROTC only has @6K cadets in total. Again, if you take 2200 going and 55% get it you are actually looking at 10K just in C200 and 100. Also if you look at the C100 yr that is usually the bumper crop yr because they will try for IS scholarships, once they don't get one they decide to bolt. Thus, that is why there is that drop off. The 200 -300 drop off is due to not getting SFT and believing it is over for them. However, by 300 to 400 the only reason they drop is gpa, which at that point is a rarity. They have their career assignment...they see the light at the end of the tunnel.

    JMPO and observations as AFROTC Mom and once upon a time an AFROTC gf. I have seen it not change in a 20 yr time span. Now take my thoughts and throw them in the circular filing cabinet, because as I always say I am not privy to the AF's boards.
     
  11. sanconto

    sanconto New Member

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    Pima I've heard you say this before and I'm a little confused by it. At my det and I thought across the national, its required to go to SFT before you can enter AS300 courses. This is because a percentage what goes into your rated package is your FT ranking.

    So basically not getting an EA this year means you are out of the program or can become an AS 500 cadet, do another year of GMC, and try again next year. This is all from my experience being an AS 500 cadet.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    We are getting into muddying waters now.

    The majority of posters on this forum have yet to figure out how the cadet system works...i.e. 100, 200, etc. Start throwing in 250, 300,400, 500, 700 etc and you will make them run for the hills screaming for a shot of Weed or a glass of wine.

    I try to keep it in terms that newcomers can absorb.
    100=freshman
    200= soph
    300= jr
    400=sr.

    This is a learning process for everyone. Some may become the 250. Yet, today for many they are not there.

    Also, my thing is why this site exists. It exists to support each other. If that means posting what are my chances, so be it. They want to serve, and they are concerned especially in these difficult military times.

    The best officer supports their brethren. I understand what Tetris's point was...stop fretting! However, he may have missed the point that all they wanted was an ear to listen to them.

    Some people remain silent about their lives. Some vocalize. Neither should be judged as weaker or stronger. Guess what in the ADAF it is always one more board!

    I would hate to see a lurker or a poster not join in out of fear. Fear of posting their stats and getting don't freak out or quit stressing.

    The numbers actually never really mattered to me. It was as an officer, the best ones are always there to mentor, assist, never to say to a cadet
    Sorry, but that is my opinion. Throw it in the circular filing cabinet, afterall I am an AFROTC Mom and a wife of someone who served for 20 yrs as an AF officer. I never ever pulled out the ruler to make sure my name tag met the regs.

    I am still here only for 1 reason. Posters back in 08 never made me feel like I asked a stupid question. They got the fact that 99% of every person I ever came in contact had no clue what this process was like. I am just trying to payback to those who helped me when I didn't get it.

    Flame on...but when you do, please do it as an officer (O3+) tell me would you tell the O1 stop fretting, here are the facts? Or would you say to them facts are not everyone will get it, and all you can do now is to keep doing your best?

    I choose the latter. I choose to say, I get the fear, I get the frustration, and honestly that is the military. However, at this point it is out of your hands. The true mark of a great officer is what they do after the results.

    The board has met. Results are in. Right now IMPO it is all about supporting every one and not saying grow a pair!
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  13. Redpin320

    Redpin320 New Member

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    There's no way. The board doesn't meet until the week of March 14-18. Last year we didn't hear back until 2nd week of April, so that's when I'd expect to hear back.
     
  14. zeus2011

    zeus2011 New Member

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    We were told by our Maj that packages were sent in on Feb 24, and should have the results March 10. The consensus on baseops is that we will find out March 25 though. Lots of different info out there so take it for what its worth.
     
  15. WJUW

    WJUW Member

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    I second this.

    Although my Maj told me face to face it was the case. He was planning on holding the results if they were out during our finals week (March 7- March 11) mainly for concern of affecting our concentration on exams. But then he decided he'd tell us anyway if the results were coming to our det at that time, he did not want us to wait, after all, we deserved to know.

    I'd say two weeks does not really make a difference. We will know eventually. But yes it'd definitely calm some nerves and let others plan ahead if not selected.

    Again good luck to everyone including myself.
     
  16. Redpin320

    Redpin320 New Member

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    Hmm. Our O-4 said it'll be much later than that. Seems very early. Everyone is saying something different on Baseops, so I wouldn't cross my fingers based on what they're saying.

    I really do hope you're right though, that would mean knowing before spring break! Good luck to everyone.
     
  17. Tetris

    Tetris New Member

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    Do you visit with an Officer at your det on a daily basis?
     
  18. WJUW

    WJUW Member

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    Quite often recently not to bother him with EAs if that's what you were asking?!
     
  19. nick4060

    nick4060 Member

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    The size of the AS300 class at my det is actually smaller than the size of the AS400 class. I dont know where you're getting your info. But not very many POC drop out/get disenrolled. I've been in AFROTC for almost three years at a large det - and I have only seen one POC leave the program before commissioning.
     
  20. southmom

    southmom New Member

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    Our DS Commander sent a letter to parents in February indicating that there were a little over 4000 nominees and 2100 slots for field training.

    AFROTC Instruction 36-2011 dated 15 July 2010 lists:

    8.4. Schedule of Events. Estimated timeline:
    8.4.1. On 1 June (or earlier): Begin working physical examinations for applicants.
    8.4.2. First duty day in January: Start of nomination period.
    8.4.3. Second week in February: Det deadline for PSP inputs.
    8.4.4. First week of March: PSP boards held.
    8.4.5. Third week of March: PSP and non-line selection results released via Automated Response Message System (ARMS).

    The Air Force Leader magazine online

    Commentary by Commentary by Col. John M. McCain

    http://www.leaderonline.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123239390

    “The more than 16,000 cadets currently enrolled in the AFROTC program come from all walks of life and all areas of the country.”… “They score an average of 1,254 on their SATs, 28 on their ACTs, and rank in the top 15 percent of their high school graduating classes. The average GPA of an AFROTC graduate earning a commission as a second lieutenant is 3.18.”
     

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