AFROTC Pilot slot

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by afi123123, Sep 27, 2013.

  1. afi123123

    afi123123 New Member

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    So I just received my AFOQT score and got a 13 on the verbal section. All the rest of the scores are competitive/above average but the 13 is below 15, so I have to retake it. I took the test September 21st. To retake you have to wait 180 days, so I can't take it until March 21st. I'm not worried about passing the second time.

    The problem is, I commission in May 2015 and want to earn a pilot slot. I will most definitely miss the boards for pilot selection for next year. Do I have any options or ways to get a pilot slot before I commission, or is looking bad? Whats the deal with supplemental boards, can I apply to that, how does that work, etc? I have a meeting with my cadre on Thursday, but wanted to get my head around it a bit. Not too knowledgeable and didn't know if any of you know of similar situations or fixes.

    Any help would be great, thanks!
     
  2. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    Even if you're not worried about passing it the second time make sure you prepare a lot for it. The hard part is the time constraint. Make sure you practice doing everything while timing yourself. Getting a good score on the pilot section is really important with the new PCSM 2.0.

    As for the rated board. You're definitely going to miss it because you have to have a passing AFOQT to apply for the board. You'll have to apply for the supplemental board in the fall of next year which kind of sucks because there may not be any slots at all to give away which was the case for the most recent supplemental board in September. No pilot slots were given. It was only RPA slots if I remember correctly. Every year is different though so don't let that stop you from doing everything you can to get a slot.

    If I were you I'd talk to your cadre and see if it's possible to get a waiver to take the AFOQT again before the 180 days is up. I don't know if there is one for that, but it wouldn't hurt to ask.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Can't you take the TBAS? For our DS, he took his AFOQT as a freshmen, that was used for SFT selection. In Dec. of his 300 yr he took the TBAS. The AFOQT was replaced by the TBAS for scoring during the rated boards, the AFOQT did not matter.

    Have they changed the AFOQT scoring? Is it now like the ACT where the top of the scale is not 100?

    Out of curiosity, unless I misunderstand the new PCSM, the big difference was the weight given to flight hours now compared to the old PCSM. I was under the impression where cadets were taking the hit on the scoring was if they had no to very little flight hrs., whereas before any flight hours gave you a bump.
     
  4. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    Pretty sure it is still out of 100.

    My son took the AFOQT for the first time last fall, at the start of his Junior year. He enrolled his Sophomore year, so I am not sure if everyone else took it their Freshman year or not, he didn't.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    They stopped giving them the AFOQT their freshmen yr @ 4 yrs ago. The only reason I asked was because back when our DS took it is was based on a 100 pt scoring system, but that was 5 yrs ago now.
     
  6. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    Son just took the AFOQT and it is still a 100 point scale.
     
  7. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    The TBAS is just one part of the PCSM. PCSM consists of your AFOQT scores, flying hours, and the TBAS. If you're going for a pilot slot then your AFOQT pilot score is calculated into it.

    My pilot score on the AFOQT went down 11 points when the new PCSM 2.0 came out. That's why I'm saying it's important to study for it because they somehow changed the way they calculate the score for your AFOQT.
     
  8. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Don't you mean your PCSM went down 11 points? I thought the AFOQT is like the SAT, whereas, the TBAS is the exam that is more flying oriented, and a portion of the score flight hrs were allowed to be added into your score.

    I know that they changed the amount of hrs for the bump. I.E. you get fewer points for less than each benchmark. I can't recall the actual benchmark, but I thought I recall someone saying that if they had 11 more hours (100 in total) their score would jump incredibly.

    I understand the reason for the PCSM change and placing more weight on the flight hrs with the TBAS due to the fact that it increases the cadets chances for doing well at IFS.

    OBTW what is the new breakdown. It use to be:
    CGPA
    PFT
    SFT (rank out of there)
    TBAS ---- this is the area that I have been told they give you a bigger bump now for flight hrs.
    CoC rank/rec.

    As you can see there was no AFOQT in the scoring. What part did they reduce or get rid of to now place in the AFOQT score.

    I know for non-rated the breakdown was the same, but since they didn't take the TBAS, the AFOQT score was the same amount as the TBAS

    Again, I am not sure why the AFOQT score would drop by 11 pts, since it is not the test where they give the edge for flight hrs.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  9. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    Nope. My score on the pilot section of the AFOQT went from a 62 to a 51 when the new PCSM 2.0 came out. Flying hours are weighed much more and my PCSM dropped from a 78 to a 27 with the new PCSM method. The TBAS isn't an exam really, it's more of a hand-eye coordination test/video game. You go in and use a joystick/rudders and have to follow a dot on a computer screen. I did really well on that and that is why I'm guessing my score dropped so much because I did great on that, but my lack of flying hours and not-so-great AFOQT score made my 78 plummet to a 27.

    So basically the PCSM contains:
    - AFOQT pilot score
    - Flying hours
    - TBAS

    This page explains it more if you're interested: http://access.afpc.af.mil/pcsmdmz/index.html

    The AFOQT has always been a part of the PCSM score, but it usually doesn't drop, but since they implemented a new method to determine the PCSM score mine did for whatever reason.

    Having a 13 on the verbal section bascially invalidates your entire AFOQT and makes it unusable for the rated board.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Our DS's AFOQT scores were all in the high 80's through the 90's (low was 88 and high 93) for all of the sections. He took it once as a freshmen. However, he was the original PCSM, and flight hours were part of TBAS, not AFOQT scoring.
    ~~~~ I know this because I had to send him his flight log book for his TBAS test, did not have to hand it in for AFOQT.
    ~~~ AFOQT for him was used for SFT selection. I know currently that they use the SAT or AFOQT for selection.

    Things change and get tweaked all the time. I know many cadets have seen their scores drop a lot because of 2.0. Mainly due to little to no flight hours. I also believed they changed the benchmark hours for points. I think the new system it is close to 100 hrs before you see a big bump.

    The problem for the OP is even if they get it above the min., the board is still going to use a point scoring system. They must apply for all 4 rated options. A line is going to be drawn, and above it the cadet will get pilot if that is their 1st choice below it and they won't.

    The Verbal part doesn't seem like it should be important, because afterall you would think flying is about handling the stick, but that is not true.

    The 1st day at IFS you will be given an exam, on on the boldface, including punctuation. Fail it, and you are retaking it again, while your peers are studying for the next academic test. Fail it twice and you are looking at being asked to leave before you even sit in a cockpit. Fail it a third time and you are gone.
    At our DS's IFS 6 months ago, there were 8 out of 30 that busted the 1st boldface. 4 busted for a 2nd time. 1 was asked to leave.

    Busting any test means more pressure on not only passing it, but less time to study for the next academic test.
    This will be repeated again once you arrive at UPT.
    Our DS's UPT class 1 month later, had a student bust boldface the 1st week.

    I don't mean to scare the OP, but only trying to stress why they place an importance on these factors.

    On one of the AFA threads there is a link to raimius's blog regarding life at UPT. I would suggest anyone that wants to go to UPT read this blog. People are not exaggerating when they say it is 6 days a week of studying and chair flying at night while doing 10 hrs a day of academics, sims, mission planning or flying 5 days a week.
    ~ IOTW, Friday night and Saturday are relaxation, come Sunday life starts all over again. Repeat 52+ weeks. DS started UPT April 2nd 2013, will wing April 23rd 2014.

    Repeat again at FTU for airframe, which can be 6-9 months.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2013
  11. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    Yea, flight hours have always been a part of the PCSM and not the AFOQT. I agree that all parts of the AFOQT are important and the verbal actually does count a lot toward the pilot composite score. The different sections that count toward the pilot score are Verbal Analogies, Instrument Comprehension, Block Counting, Table Reading, and Aviation Information. So it's important to study those to get a good score on the pilot section.

    I agree with you on the other stuff about IFS and UPT too. I know a few people going through right now and they tell me how rough it is. That's what I suggested OP study hard for the next AFOQT they take so that they can get a competitive score.

    It sure isn't a walk in the park.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1 Reaper.

    The fact is this test is going to be the easiest in the rated world because you can study for 180 days to get an amazing score.

    At IFS and UPT, it is maybe a day or two to study. The pace is very quick.

    Again, to the OP, I am only trying to say how you study and test is going to be really important when you get to the rated world. Figuring out what works for you now as a cadet on how to study can help you more than you could ever imagine down the road.
     
  13. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    I would probably disagree that studying for this test for 180 days will give you an amazing score. It would certainly help, but I think this test, like the SAT's is set up to attempt to measure the candidate's intelligence, and hopefully keep the USAF from wasting lots of $$ trying to place people in places they may not be capable of succeeding in.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Moose,

    I was trying to be supportive for the OP, but I 1000% support your position.

    I felt it would be better not to harp on the score, instead try to illustrate how difficult the UPT path is academically. If they have 180 days of studying for the AFOQT is hard, imagine IFS and UPT with a day.
    ~~~~ DS arrived at Pueblo on Wed. night. In processed in on Thursday. 1st test Friday. 2nd test Tuesday. Up in the air Wed. Test Thursday.Up in the air Friday.
    ~ Notice he had all weekend to study for the 2nd test. Those that busted on Friday, re-took on Monday. That meant they only had Monday night to study for Tuesday's test. Can you say behind the 8 ball?

    I am sorry, but I feel many kids don't get it. They have an illusion of not only UPT, but how the rated selection process works. You can't just say Pilot or nothing.

    afi123123 needs to ask several questions:
    ~~~~ Will you be happy as an ABM? RPA? CSO?
    ~~~~~ Do you want to be a pilot or is it a dream to be a certain airfame pilot?

    As I posted earlier, this is the time that you need to be truly honest with yourself afi.

    Are you asking for a delay in commissioning because you think it will allow you a better chance for the UPT boards with a higher AFOQT score?
    ~~~~ If so remember the COC has a voice. Does your CoC have wings? If they do, than you should realize they know the scores...you have to now hit it out of the ballpark.

    I would say def. do it because when you are 40/50 and not a pilot, you will have a regret that you didn't go for it because of some silly forum that might not exist.

    If you do go for it, than it is time to truly buckle down. Instead of practicing the test 1x a week because you think that is all you have time for due to the fact that you have college, ROTC, etc. Do it 2-3 x weekly. If your grades start to slip, than it will teach you how to do better in time management.

    If anyone has scared you out of it because of the reality you will face, than that was your decision and you made it on your own to say; I don't want to be doing this process until I am close to 25. (IFS, UPT, SERE, Water, FTU, MQ at Op base).

    Finally, is there any ability to get some flight hours in the next 180 days? If so it will help alot because of PCSM 2.0
    ~~~ DS was original PCSM. However, for his birthday, and xmas all he got was flight hours from us and family members. Nothing else.

    It helped him when he took the AFOQT as a 100 and a 300 for TBAS. His college graduation money was used to fly the type of airframe that they use at IFS to prepare. Costs more.

    You can do it, but only if you really are prepared to fight for it.

    OBTW, I think afi123123 has left the building....which would be sad.
     
  15. FlyingWildcatDad

    FlyingWildcatDad Member

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    My DS also took the AFOQT on September 21st, it was mandatory for all the 200's, 250's, and 500's competing for an EA this year. My understanding is that you have to pass the math and the verbal or you fail the whole test. DS said that 5 cadets failed the test and were disenrolled. His roomate made a 96 on the math, but a 13 on the verbal. He was kept in the program but told he had to retake the test in March and had to pass it to attend FT. Not sure if this is something new or just DET specific? I know he said that the current 300's at his DET took the test at the same time for the first time.
     
  16. FlyingWildcatDad

    FlyingWildcatDad Member

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    I believe the number is a percentile. I think this because DS said that one had to score above the 15th percentile in math and verbal to pass the test. He also said that there were 12 sections on the test and that math and verbal made up four of them.
     
  17. S72004

    S72004 Member

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    That is true.

    Before you could take the AFOQT after completing Field Training returning as 300s. Now it is mandatory for Field Training Selection (meaning 200s, 250s and 500s). They must now take the test to compete.
     
  18. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    My cranium hurts!

    If I am reading this correctly AFROTC has gone back to how it was for the class of 2012.

    AFOQT is now required for SFT, no more SAT/ACT equivalent scoring for SFT boards.

    However, with PCSM 2.0 the flight hrs are now part of the AFOQT score and not TBAS.

    Did I get this correct?

    Am I also correct that TBAS no longer replaces the AFOQT for the rated boards? That both scores are part of the equation?
     
  19. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    Flying hours don't count toward the AFOQT at all. The AFOQT is its own entity. Flying hours still count for the TBAS.

    Both the TBAS and AFOQT are parts of the rated board. The TBAS and AFOQT and flying hours are what make up a person's PCSM score.

    The rated board doesn't use any percentage for the AFOQT or TBAS. They only have a percentage for a person's PCSM score.

    PCSM score = AFOQT, TBAS, and flying hours.
     
  20. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Reaper,

    Let's go about this differently.

    PCSM accounts for what %?

    Are you saying that PFA, CGPA, SFT ranking, and CoC rec doesn't matter at all?

    When DS went through all of that was placed into the equation, including TBAS. That created their PCSM score.


    OBTW, didn't you say your AFOQT dropped 11 points because of flight hrs? Or is it my Polish pea brain that misread what you were saying?
    Trying to get it. Why did it drop? AFOQT is a test. If flight hrs don't matter for the AFOQT, than why?

    I am not trying to be antagonistic. I am trying to get how or why it dropped for the AFOQT.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2013

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