AFROTC Policy

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Concerned, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. Concerned

    Concerned New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I may be grasping at straws but here goes. My son is a new college freshman who signed up for AFROTC. During orientation he checked the box indicating he had tried pot and later admitted to the CCC he did it a handful of times, but that was the past and would gladly submit to daily testing if necessary. The CCC told him he would not be admitted to the program. He is devastated but understands he screwed up. He has worked extremely hard his senior year bringing his class rank from 33 to 14 in a very competitive class even though he had already been accepted to prestigious university during his junior year. Captain of his high school track & cross country teams. A unwieghted GPA of 3.9 and a perfect score in his AP exam. My point being he is not a screw up simply a youth who had a serious lapse in judgement. My question is, does he have any options left for AFROTC or is this a closed case?
    Any input would be greatly appreciated.
     
  2. nick4060

    nick4060 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Messages:
    422
    Likes Received:
    15
    The AFROTC policy when I graduated was that "experimenting" wasn't disqualifying while "habitual use" was. When your son explained to the Det/CC that he had tried pot, he probably gave the impression that it was more habitual than experimental.

    I commissioned with several people who had experimented with pot before ROTC. When they talked to the Det/CC freshman year, they simply said "Sir I tried it once due to peer pressure in high school. I immediately regretted it and never did it again." That was the end of it and they were able to start ROTC.

    There were a couple others who told the CC that they "used to smoke pot in high school" or "did it a few times over the years". Repeated use tells them that they tried it, liked it, and kept doing it. And in my experience that was always a deal breaker. It'd be best for your son to call the Detachment and ask what options he has. And if there are none, he could look into the Army or Navy programs to see if their policies are any more lenient.
     
  3. kevster

    kevster Member

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2009
    Messages:
    199
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ditto on what Nick said. However, I think the AFROTC policy may be less lenient now. I remember that last year we had about 15-20 kids during orientation that got denied admission because of their past history. I know that in the past there was more latitude given but now the AF seems to be clamping down. It could be related to the fact that the AF is getting more cadets than available commissioning slots.

    Like Nick said have your son call or meet again with the det CC and talk about options. Otherwise it would prob be best to move on and explore the other services.
     
  4. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    836
    I don't think an applicant in this situation will find the Army or Navy to be any more lenient. Things have tightened up for all the services and the AROTC and NROTC have the same issues regarding the number of contracts available compared to the number of applicants. Since this applicant has already checked the box yes regarding pot usage he will need to make sure he checks the same box yes on any application for the Army or Navy programs. When the Recruiting Officer asks about it I would make sure you think hard about how you answer the question.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    On another forum that is geared to just AF this was a thread about 6 months ago. The cadet joining AFROTC admitted to smoking pot 3 times in hs and he was disenrolled. He was also told that he could not apply later on for OCS. He tried to fight it and take it up the ladder to AFROTC HQ, but it resulted in the end the same way. AFROTC HQ disenrolled him.

    As others have stated once or twice is considered experimental, multiple times means 1 of 2 things.
    1. He liked it --- not a good thing in the AF's eyes
    2. He gave into peer pressure --- again not a positive in the AF's eyes.

    If this was 10 yrs ago, maybe the answers would be different, but the reality is that the AF has more than enough candidates/cadets equally qualified to meet their manpower needs for the future currently without taking a cadet that admitted to smoking marijuana multiple times in their past.

    I hope that you don't take what I am saying as harsh, that is not my intention. It is just trying to illustrate why the AF would decide they are going to part ways with him now before ever giving him the chance to prove that this was just a youthful indiscretion. It is personal to you, but it is business to them.

    I would follow Nick's and Kevster's advice have him talk to the CC see if they will go to bat for him and take it up the AFROTCHQ chain. However, be prepared at the same time, that the CC does not know them from an Adam and to do this the CC is also tieing their name/reputation to his name/reputation. What if the unthinkable happens he pulls a 2.0 this semester, a 2.4 next and gets a waiver? The problem is he basically has a slim to no chance of getting an SFT slot, and will be disenrolled as a C200. They fought for him for what? That is why when you remove the emotions you will see the reason I said that comment.

    I am sorry this is happening, no parent wants to see their child's dream end before it ever begins. We are all here for you in whatever manner you need us to be here for, and whenever you need it.

    Remember the worst thing they can say is NO. The worst thing he can do is NOT ask!
     
  6. dunninla

    dunninla Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2010
    Messages:
    1,866
    Likes Received:
    5
    that is exactly the reason. When the number of cadets is more than the number of SFT slots, why would you cut slack to someone who has shown poor judgement? I mean , you've got to cut, say 15% of the cadets, and it is simply more practical to have them "cut themselves" than to have to force-cut a law abiding, good judgment kid who does everything right, but has a 2.8 GPA.

    It's not just the Air Force ROTC. All ROTCs are adjusting to projected Force needs for 2013. 2014, 2015, etc. Year Groups. When there are a lot of Army ROTC cadets who want Active Duty that won't likely get it b/c of GPA or a lower PFT score has them lower on the OML, it's easier to separate the kids with attitude or conduct disqualifiers, and not waiver them. That would include getting caught at a party at age 19 with a drink in your hand. That was also true of Medical DQs that were waivered back in at DODMERB, but not as much now.

    We wouldn't be having this conversation in 2007, 2008, 2009, or 2010, and maybe not even 2011, first half. Everything within judgement was waivered because the projected force need was getting higher, not lower.

    Concerned... none of the above is personal or aimed at the personal loss of a dream your son had, and you likely shared with him. My thoughts and prayers go out to you. Your son sounds like a great kid who will be successful in whatever other avenue of service to his country that he pursues. Not every part of the government is as quick to dismiss a candidate as the ROTC is at this moment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  7. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    dunninla,

    I agree with you, but I would correct you on one issue. 2.8 in AFROTC, even as a Tech major is not going to cut it for SFT. These cadets/candidates need to realize that a 3.0 Tech is pushing it, I believe it was 3.1 TY, and for non-tech you better be near a 3.4 nationally.

    That is how competitive it is right now for SFT. I am not trying to take anything away from C100 cadets (Class of 16), but HS is to college like middle school is to HS on steroids. AFROTC cadets only have 3 semesters before meeting the SFT. If you do the math, 1 semester at a 2.8 as a Tech major means you need the next two at at least 3.2 to feel competitive.

    AFROTC is not like AROTC. Currently, you don't go to SFT as a C200 100 to 1 they will disenroll you immediately. You can't be a POC, and if you can't be a POC you can't finish the AFROTC program on time. There are some exceptions, but honestly I would bank more on winning big money off of a scratch off lottery than them allowing you to stick it out for another yr.

    Back to the OP, I hope even with the topic going off track, you understand why that he is in for an uphill battle.

    LY was the 1st yr they did what I would call mini-boards for SFT. The CoC racked and stacked the cadets, after that they called in the 200's and were honest with them about their support for SFT. Many cadets quit after this discussion.

    I tell you this because LY if you search this forum you will see they had a 93% rate for SFT. Every yr prior never hit 60%. The reason was not because the AF needed more members, it was because dets held min-boards and the pool size of applicants shrank.

    I don't want you to be under the misconception that this jump meant they had a manning issue. They don't. Honestly, because AFA LY cut their class size by @ 20% for 16, it would not shock me if AFROTC now will be even more restrictive because typically plan B for AFA candidates is AFROTC. Those cadets had to go somewhere when they got the TWE from the AFA. There were about 3K nationally that got the TWE. I think if I recall correctly, only about 1K nationally get AFROTC scholarship, and I think 5K per yr group are in AFROTC. Won't swear, nobody flame me. Just saying that the OP needs to realize when we say they have qualified candidates that because of the AFA shrinking it impacts AFROTC, in her DS's case that maybe the reason why.

    I am sorry, I know that cuts you like a knife to read, but I do hope that it helps your DS understand why they are being strict. I can't say it enough, it is not personal, it is business. AFROTC has a budget and reports to AF HQ. They have manpower requirements. A cut has to be made somewhere.

    Don't let him give up yet, let him exhaust every avenue.
     
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2012
  8. Concerned

    Concerned New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Thank you Nick for taking the time to respond. Based on our research and phone calls it is over.
     
  9. Concerned

    Concerned New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I truly appreciate your comments and for taking the time to respond. I don't have the heart to tell him at this point he may need to change colleges now that the AFROTC financial benefits are gone. Difficult times and how one responds to them is what defines them. He has met his first major defining moment. Again, thank you.
     
  10. Concerned

    Concerned New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2012
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Pima, thank you for your insight. It is truly appreciated.
     
  11. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,535
    Likes Received:
    836
    I am sorry the situation turned out as it did. Was your son on an AFROTC Scholarship, you spoke of financial benefits. If in fact the AF has closed the door and your son still wishes to pursue a military career he at least should try talking with the Army or Navy. It's only a guaranteed no if he doesn't ask.

    Best of luck to your son.
     
  12. Packer

    Packer Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2011
    Messages:
    1,877
    Likes Received:
    5
    Concerned, I am sorry to hear this. A very tough lesson. I agree with Jcleppe that if your son is interested in the Army or Navy it would be worth talking to them.
     
  13. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,537
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    Sorry to hear this

    Concerned, I too am very sorry to hear this. It's definitely a crushing blow to all. I understand and agree with the rationale put forward by other folks as to why he was dropped; but it seems a shame to me that this happens when one is being honest and taking responsibility for their past. Best of luck to your DS in his endeavors. I would explore the other military avenues, even including enlistment. Perhaps after demonstrating himself as AD enlisted he could even move back into ROTC via an enlisted-to-officer program.
     
  14. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,795
    Likes Received:
    930
    Concerned, kinnem has a great suggestion of the enlistment route. The AF has a program called Tuition Assistance (TA). They basically will pay 75% of the tuition as long as they commit to serving X amount of yrs. This might be an avenue for him to look into with a recruiter. Recruiters understand how the enlistment to officer programs work more intimately than anyone else here.

    I am not somebody who believes if one branch says no try the other branches. Lifestyle and career options are vastly different within each branch. It depends on the person. There is nothing wrong to say, I want to serve in this branch and only this branch. They are no less patriotic than someone that says give me any branch.

    Every best hope, thought and wish we can send you.
     
  15. CGBrat14

    CGBrat14 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was filling out my AFROTC scholarship app and the question came up about Marijuana experimentation. I originally said no but as I was checking over the application I didn't want to deal with the consequences of lying so I changed my answer to yes. It gave me the space to explain so I did. It was once my freshman year of high school, I took one bite of a weed brownie felt nothing and I have never and will never try it again. I feel stupid for admitting such a trivial thing, I don't even think that constitutes as trying it but its too late for me to change the application. I'm worried that I have destroyed my chance of any kind of ROTC. It sounds like if it was 5 years ago they would've appreciated te honesty and everything would be fine and dandy but today it sounds like they might just see I said yes and not even look at the circumstances. Does anyone know if this will also disqualify me from just joining ROTC in college?
     
  16. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,537
    Likes Received:
    1,001
    As mentioned on the other thread, the one time experimentation should be no big deal. Just don't do it again. You can see on this thread some of the consequences.
     
  17. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2012
    Messages:
    148
    Likes Received:
    0
    Step son went USAF enlisted. Two different enlistment officers made it very plain that if you wanted to join the USAF you better make sure to check the no box every time. At MEPPS they often grill you about it, and if you say yes after checking no you are probably gone.

    I would imagine they are much more stringent on the future officers.

    Additionally, and just a bit off topic, the base my step son is stationed at had a number, like twenty or so airmen who were caught smoking Spice, which is, I guess, a legal, synthetic marijuana. Legal, but not allowed for USAF members. One airman was caught, and turned overt he next, and right down the line, they were all discharged. They don't fool around with this stuff guys.

    Best thing, don't ever do it, and if you did, don't ever admit it. Look at it from their prospective, you check you have smoked it, become a pilot, crash your plane, they do a blood test and you have it in your system. Now who's head is on the block, yours and everyone that bent the rules and let an admitted drug user into the USAF and gave them a multi million dollar jet to fly.

    What is it called, plausible deniability, as soon as it is checked, there is no way someone can say they had no idea you used drugs.

    Best possible answer, don't ever use it, and if you ever tried it don't ever do it again!!!!
     

Share This Page