AFROTC SFT and your GPA

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by hill82, Feb 9, 2013.

  1. hill82

    hill82 Member

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    My son was reboarded in December and now is waiting to hear from the January board. His dream for the last 6 years has been to be an Air Force officer. For the majority of that time he wanted to go to the Academy and worked towards that goal. Then, a year ago he decided he wanted a more "traditional" college experience before going AD. He is going to go AFROTC even if he isn't awarded a scholarship, although it would be extremely helpful.

    He was accepted at 4 schools and the decision is between two of them, at this point. Finally the question: Does the school, your GPA and the size of the detachment make a difference in selection to SFT, et al? For instance, does a particular GPA at a MIT or Cornell carry more weight than the same GPA at a school considered less (rightly or wrongly) prestigious?

    I realize there are more factors involved besides GPA. I'm just trying to have as much information before he makes his final choice. Thanks
     
  2. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I think you need to let your son choose between the two based on which one he wants to go to. Which one has the better department in the major he desires. Which one he thinks he'll fit in better at. If he's happy at the school he'll do well there. And if he does well then SFT will come at its appointed time.
     
  3. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    +1 to kinnem's post.
     
  4. hill82

    hill82 Member

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    Thanks for your reply. He likes both schools and he can see himself happy at either and both are very good for his major. One, however, has the reputation of being harder from a GPA and higher from an overall Barron's perspective. But in his specific major, very comparable. BTW, I'm not talking about either named school in the OP.

    I'm new to this, so I don't know if I accidentally touched the third rail with my original question, but is the selection process for SFT truly blind as far as a particular college GPA and home detachment is concerned?

    Ultimately, the decision is his and his alone. On a personal note, I'm not looking for an answer to frame an argument yea or nay for one school or another, I'm thrilled with either one. I just want to provide him with all pertinent criteria for an informed decision, especially in regards to his Air Force goal.
     
  5. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I am not sure what you mean by blind. It is blind to the point that they do not know if the cadet is on scholarship or not, but they indeed know their major and the det.

    Personally, I think you are placing too much emphasis on the cgpa aspect. cgpa is only 10-15% of the entire score. I can't remember which.

    SAT/AFOQT and PFT make up the other portions for a total of 50%. The remaining 50% is the CoC's rec.

    The way the major works for the cgpa is tech majors get a bump, thus they typically have @0.3-0.4% lowed cgpa than a non-tech. Yes, they will look at the rigor of the college, but if I get your post correctly, you are not talking about going to either MIT or Timbucktoo, you are talking about relatively the same caliber of colleges.

    Finally, has he visited both dets? If not visit them soon. Ask to meet with the CoC and C3C/C4Cs; ask some very pertinent questions that are unique to the dets.

    COCs
    ~~~~ CGPA for SFT selection
    ~~~~ % selected for SFT
    ~~~~ % that get their 1st choice AFSC
    ~~~~ % that stay with the program until commissioning.

    C3C/C4C
    ~~~~ GMC nights?
    ~~~~ Military fraternities? AAS, Angel, Honor Guard, Silver Wings?
    ~~~~ % of cadets that join any of them?
    ~~~~ Mandatory volunteer hours in the det? Yes, some dets have that. For example at our DS's, they cleaned up the FB stadium at least 2X, and just as often for the BBall collisuem. They also did philanthropic things, like Susan G. Kohlman run or Relay for Life every yr.

    On top of that, DS belonged to AAS, and they had their volunteer hours too. Add that on top of weekly AAS meetings, ROTC, and even as a freshman you are talking about more hours than just LLAB and PT, which if you don't juggle correctly the cgpa will take a hit, but at the same time by being active the cadre sees the participation.

    As he progresses he will also be given jobs in the det., and they can equal hrs more. For example, cadet flight commanders will write reviews for every cadet in their flight, they will have weekly meetings to discuss cadets. If PT is at 6 a.m., they will be there at 5.

    If you haven't done the meet and greet, I would suggest when you do, say hi to the CoC, and than leave. Have a pre-determined destination to meet on campus at X time.

    1. The CoC will see it as a positive Mom and Dad are not hanging around.
    2. Cadets act differently around the folks...dog and pony show. When it is just them, they usually play Xbox, foosball, crud, and talk casually like 18-21 yr old kids hanging out. He will get a feel for the social aspect. Dets are like people...unique personalities. I have known people that opted A over B because of that det. feel.
    3. Walking the campus without you also gives him the opportunity to being there next yr. Let's face college kids can tell when it is a hs kid since the folks are with him. It is even just those few minutes alone walking from the det to the Student Union where he can envision next yr.

    Hope that helps.
     
  6. hill82

    hill82 Member

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    It definitely helps thank you.

    He's visited both and met with a representative of the cadre. Unfortunately, both visits were during the summer so, no cadets. Currently working on an overnight for the local school, which hopefully can include time with the detachment. Probably won't be able to make another visit to the out-of-state school.

    I was aware that cgpa was only one factor, but my posts probably didn't convey that properly. Again thanks for the information, advice and personal experience.
     
  7. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    This is more of a question then a comment, maybe Pima can answer.

    Is the selection to SFT based on a National Board or is it determined by the individual Det. In other words, a GPA form one school wouold carry the same weight as a GPA from another.

    I only ask because coming from the Army side, all cadets attend the Summer LDAC Assesment Course. After completion they are ranked Nationaly, A 3.2 from Yale will place you lower on the list then a 3.5 from East Texas U., the school does not matter.

    I think the OP's question was whether the GPA at an Ivy would out weigh the GPA from another university when it came time for SFT Selection, so that's why I ask. If the SFT Selection is determined by the individual Det. then the GPA will be on par with all the other cadets at that individual School, if it is done Nationaly then I guess it could be a slight issue.

    Just on a side note, could we please stop referring to some schools as "Timbucktoo", "Ho Hum" or "Whatsa Matta U" (Those other names came from other posts) A graduate from one of those school will be someone's Wingman someday and I'm sure people will be more concerned how they did in Flight School then what college they received their degree from.

    hill82,

    We live very close to the UW and have a lot of friends whose kids attend, great school.
     
  8. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    While saying the GPA only counts 15% or whatever, towards your ranking and SFT is probably true, I'm not sure if that is the whole story. My understanding is at some point, a low GPA will cause a loss of your scholarship, and if you aren't scholarship, prevent you from qualifying for SFT.

    In other words, if you don't keep your grades up you won't make SFT.
     
  9. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Moose,

    2.5 cgpa is the min. for a scholarship, thus even if you just meet the requirements, honestly you will lose the scholarship by the end of your jr. yr because 3.0 is the avg.

    You can also get in trouble if you have to repeat a course. Let's say you carry 4 A and 1 F. Although the cgpa may be over the 2.5 min. you still failed a course and that must be reported to the det. even if it has no impact on your graduation date. I.E. you re-take the course over the summer.
     
  10. ERAUMattmom

    ERAUMattmom Member

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    I'm confused... I thought that scholarship status was blind when it came down to AFROTCHQ selections for SFT. ??
     
  11. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Moosestache - I believe you are absolutely incorrect regarding No Scholarship = No SFT. Check your info before posting on a board that new people rely on for accurate information.
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    I think Moose's fingers typed faster than his brain.

    If I am wrong in my assumption. ERAU you are 1000% correct it is BLIND. The board has no idea unless the COC in their rec. tells the board.

    Recs are bullet statements and there are key words that matter. The board is not filled with O3's it is O5's that know what the statement means from promotion rating files, and Officer Evaluation/Performance Reports.

    My number 1 pick
    One of my Top Picks
    AFROTC scholarship recipient

    Each one says something different to the board.

    First says this is my guy/gal
    Second says they are my top choices
    Third says they are on scholarship

    This is 50% of the total. 15% is cgpa. It is a big factor. You can have a 3.3, but a 85 on the PFT, and the CoC will most likely reflect that in their rec.
     
  13. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Probably 65-75% of the 200s currently going up for an EA at my det are not on scholarship so no, no scholarship does NOT equal no FT.

    Perhaps he meant that if a cadet is on scholarship and then loses that scholarship due to a low gpa, then it is pretty much a given that the cadet will not be going to FT. I mean, if you don't have a high enough gpa to keep the scholarship, then there's no way you'll be competitive for an EA.
     
  14. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    Poor phrasing on my part, and I would say, some of the posters sort of getting all up in arms.

    1. As Pima clarified for me, with the facts, if your GPA is too low you will lose your scholarship.

    2. (To clarify) Regardless if you are on a scholarship or not, if your GPA is too low you will not be selected for Summer Field Training.

    My understanding is at some point, a low GPA will cause a loss of your scholarship, and if you aren't scholarship, prevent you from qualifying for SFT.

    Referred to a student who wasn't on scholarship, not one who had lost their scholarship.
     
  15. Moosestache

    Moosestache Member

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    One of my son's friends was a great kid, was really well liked and respected by the other cadets, and basically did everything in ROTC very well, except study. He was warned and then at the end of the semester booted from the program.
     
  16. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Typically they will place them, as a conditional cadet after 1 semester, be it scholarship or not. After 2 semesters they usually will start the dis-enrollment process.

    Right now because of the current SFT board meeting a lot is being discussed regarding pool size and chances. SFT is not just about camping in the field, there are academics too. Their concern is going to be for the cadet with low cgpa academics.

    The cgpa for every cadet will matter from the 1st semester until they graduate. At 1st it will be to attend SFT, and than later on it will be for their career field. There have been cadets dis-enrolled in their last semester as SRs because of cgpas.

    This is a marathon. They can never lose sight of their goal and how the AF wants the best whole officer, not just the best ROTC only officer. They know for a majority of them they will attend a school for their career field that will include academics. If you can't handle 20 hrs a week in class, how are you going to pass when it is 40 hrs a week of academics.

    EX: IFS (Initial Flight Screening). This is the 1st leg of UPT. Students have months to study for this test. DS is there right now. On the 1st day they are given a test. In his class of 22, 6 of them busted the test. The 6 that busted will re-take it again today. The kicker for them will be tomorrow there will be the next test either way. The 16 other students had 5 days between tests to study. The 6 will have a night. They are behind the power curve right off the bat.

    IFS is known to be the easiest part of UPT/UNT.

    As you can see one of their reasons for the cgpa is not only about selection from a short term perspective, but from a long term aspect too.
     

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