AFROTC Summer Programs

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by Ilikeplanes, May 27, 2013.

  1. Ilikeplanes

    Ilikeplanes New Member

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    I am a scholarship cadet going to FT this summer. I know in the past there were many opportunities for cadets on scholarship to go on summer visits to other countries, USAFA, etc. I was wondering if these programs still exist with the budget cuts and all, and could there still be a chance to go to U.S. Army Jump School next summer(AS300 summer)?

    Thanks
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    They started chopping summer programs before the sequester was a factor. It is has always been common for AFA cadets to do summer programs, but not common for AFROTC. Scholarship really isn't a factor, because now all of 300's are POCs, and officially contracted.

    Additionally, seeing your moniker I would think you are going to try for rated. If this is the case during your 300 summer you will be going out to WPAFB at some time for your flight physical. Plus, in the AF you don't want to do anything that can risk your health. Bullet has jump wings (jumped with the 82nd for 2 yrs) when he went through Benning a pilot in his class had a bad jump....he now has several pins in his body, and although he was a F16 pilot already he had to go to a medical evaluation board to determine if he could be in ejection seat airframes.

    Think about it do you want to risk it for jump wings that unless you are going to go into a career field like CRO, or ALO you will ever use again?

    Finally, it is not just up to the AF, but also the Army. The Army has to agree to give some of their slots to the AF, thus you need 2 yes answers.
     
  3. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    But are any of the summer programs still available for AFROTC cadets? If so, I'd really like to do the Freefall program at the AFA or another jump school if it's available. Does anyone know for sure or has gone to an AFROTC summer program in recent years??
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    This is not meant to be antagonistic, but I am curious why anyone without their DoDMERB exit exam for commissioning would want to Jump out of a perfectly good airplane? This is a jump ALO wife asking. Like I stated earlier, are you intending to be a CRO or jump ALO or is this a fun thing to do because once ADAF it won't happen?

    I ask this especially when you are @9-10 months shy of commissioning. What will happen if you break a leg, arm, shoulder because you landed poorly over the summer? How long will you be out of commission? Will it impact your commissioning physical...DQ?

    It might be that many decide not to go this route because commissioning means more than free falling out of a perfectly good airplane. It is not that they aren't offering it per se, but the risk is not worth it.

    If you are going rated, your summer would be better served studying for TBAS and getting flight hrs under your belt because you are living in PCSM 2.0. A new selection criteria than those for 13.
     
  5. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    I am not going rated and would really like to know if these programs are available. The question of if it is worth the risk is something to think about at a different time but is frankly irrelevant at this point because no one has confirmed whether or not the option is still available to AFROTC cadets.
     
  6. Reaper

    Reaper AFROTC Cadet (AS400)

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    I know there's like of like 2, but I can't really remember what the other one is besides the CRO pdt. The other one had something to do with electrical engineering I believe, but I'm not positive.
     
  7. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    "Plus, in the AF you don't want to do anything that can risk your health"

    Pima - that seems to be a perspective unique to the Air Force. Most Army personnel jump at the chance for advanced schooling. This is, after all, the military - not the cub scouts.

    Non Ducor Duco - come over to the dark side. We have cookies. And Airborne School.
     
  8. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

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    I don't think it's unique to the Air Force. I had several midshipmen by the house just prior to their catching a flight the next day to go skiing in Tahoe. Part of the discussion was avoiding injuries. It's not that you don't do stuff, it's that you're prudent about what you do and how you go about doing it. Until you commission the risks need to be considered.

    EDIT: BTW, these were all gung ho guys who go out for 5 - 8 mile ruck runs on Friday evenings just because they can. That is, unless they are doing SEAL beatdowns and employing telephone poles in strange ways.
     
  9. Jcc123

    Jcc123 Member

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    Agreed, Kinnem, but Pima didnt say pre-commissioning, she said "in the Air Force" I've honestly never known active Army personnel with that outlook. It's a dangerous job, and the more training, the better.
     
  10. aglages

    aglages Parent

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    I think when taken in the context that Pima used it her meaning was quite clear. She was referring to those people pursuing a Rated Slot in the AF and whether the "risk" of jump school was worth the thrill....particularly for a skill (jump qualified) that most AF Officers, unlike Army Officers, will never need or use again.

    BTW - I can't speak for others but I certainly appreciate the reminder that our Armed Forces are NOT the Cub Scouts. Sometimes during a discussion on the merits of a certain action we forget that what's most important is the image and not necessarily what makes the best sense.:cool:
     
  11. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    Then how do you explain the approximately 40-50% of USAFA grads who have gotten their free-fall parachute jump wings in a program that is offered to both rising sophomores as a Summer program and to Firsties as a class for credit?

    Stealth_81
     
  12. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    Actually if you re-read my posts I said not only ADAF, but also AFROTC.

    Again unless their AFSC is CRO or ALO, the fact is why should the AF send them? Why should the Army take up a slot for a cadet that won't use it?

    It is not the AF doesn't believe in additional training. I.E. when Bullet was with the 82nd, he sent his AF enlisted members to Ranger school with the Army. This was their career field not for 1 assignment, but their entire career, thus it made sense in every way. For officers they send them to schools tied to their AFSC, not because it sounds cool.

    NonDucor is saying they are not going rated. It is just that simple, it would be a waste of dollars since they will never jump out of a perfectly good airplane again, but the CRO or ALO, or even a cadet wanting to go rated would have a much higher chance of jumping out of a plane in their future. Why risk injuring the cadet if it has absolute no impact on doing their job in the future? Why spend the money?

    To me it is just business sense. If you want to make a comparison, it would be like the Army sending any AROTC cadet to go to a fighter base and spend the summer taking rides in the back of a 16 or the AFA to do gliders. They would never use that experience once commissioned.

    The Army has their mission, and the AF has theirs, it doesn't mean one branch doesn't believe in additional training, it may just means their branch doesn't need to have the same type of training.
     
  13. Non Ducor Duco

    Non Ducor Duco I am not led, I lead

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    Is that also available for AFROTC Cadets?
     
  14. Stealth_81

    Stealth_81 Super Moderator Moderator Founding Member

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    In past years, yes, there were AFROTC cadets who did the jump training at USAFA in the summer. I do not know if it is currently still an option.

    Stealth_81
     
  15. Nateman15

    Nateman15 Member

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    The fact of the matter is:

    No, there are no summer programs left. USAFA has all of their programs still, they are more important or something. Gotta keep those ego's inflated somehow. Summer programs for AFROTC are gone.

    A 400 friend of mine went to Japan the summer before his 200 year and flew around in C-17's for a week. Those days are O.V.E.R. We were lucky to get EA's, let alone go on fun stuff.

    Until our budget is restored, just be thankful we have a job.
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

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    That should bring some interesting comments.

    Sorry to hear AFROTC has taken such a hit.
     
  17. Pima

    Pima Parent

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    It is sibling rivalry, and I hope people take it just as that.

    I talked to DS on Sunday, and that rivalry is still going on at UPT. AFROTC grads joke that they are the red headed child and damn proud of it.

    I think that if you truly wanted to spend every summer doing something with the AF, you should have gone to the AFA. AFROTC started eliminating summer programs yrs and yrs ago, long before sequestration.

    Remember the AFA graduates less than AFROTC. Typically 1/3 of commissioned officers every yr. Think about it 2200 were selected for SFT, from there they will probably have 2100 commission. AFA right now is in the 800 range for the same yr group.

    Plus, it is an issue of boards. AFROTC runs multiple boards every yr. 4 scholarship boards (HSSP), 2 ICSP boards, SFT, rated and non-rated. It would than have to add in one more board, at the same time they are doing their big boards (scholarship, SFT, and rated----Jan-Mar timeframe). These boards are officers sent to Maxwell on TDY. The manpower needs would be even more for 1 more board. The budget is not there right now.
     

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