AFROTC

Discussion in 'ROTC' started by John12, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi so I'm a senior in HS and I have been thinking about afrotc for the fall. I know I missed the has scholarship but I know there are scholarships in college afrotc programs. So when I attend Clemson university in the fall I want to get a some sort of scholarship but I'm kinda confused on how exactly the process works?

    How are the classes you have to take during the afrotc program?

    What are some PT activities most programs do? Is it just going to be running, and sit ups and pushups? I do track and field and cross country so and we took the PFT and I did 50 sit ups, 60 push ups and did a 10:15 1.5 mile run. Is that a good base to have for the fall?

    What about uniforms? I know hey are provided but how will I know how to look like the collar length... how to stand at attention.. salute? Will they train/ teach me?

    I am going to study civil engineering in college... I know it is going to be tough but I am a smart guy and should be Ok but if I only get like 2.8 GPA will I be out of the running for a scholarship? I'm still confused on how scholarships work.

    How is the FT in the summer of going into your junior year? Is it a month or so of running push ups getting yelled at and having to make your bed in prestine condition?

    What happens after I graduate? How do I know what I'm going to be doing? Like will I be a engineer or no? What do I need to do after I'm commissioned and serve and I want to go back to school and get my teachers cert.? Will I have yo pay for it out of my pocket? Will the AF pay? Is there standards for the AF to pay for my future education?

    Thanks.
     
  2. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    930
    Lots of questions, but here is the brief synopsis.

    For the national scholarship in college it is called ISSP. You will start the process in the fall for the 3 yr scholarship. The thing to understand is the scholarship would come out of the FY 14 budget and until the debt ceiling issue is resolved there will be a lot of maybes hanging out there due to sequestration regarding ROTC budgets.

    College dets typically also have their own scholarships available to cadets at that det. Unlike the nat. you can't take it with you if you transfer to another college. Additionally the det can decide how many they will award and for how much.

    In other words don't select a school you can't afford for all 4 yrs without a scholarship because there are just too many what ifs and that is just one part of the what ifs.

    They will give you all of the uniforms, and teach you how to properly wear them. They don't expect you to know on day one what a proper level of shine for your shoes are to be at for an EQ or exactly where your name tag goes...yes, it is measured out, not just slapped on.

    PT will vary det to det. The PT exam will be the same at every det., but the actual weekly PT will vary.

    I would personally say with how tight scholarship money is these days 2.8 CE would be out of the running...caveat UPenn 2.8 is different than 2.8 at U os Southern New Hamphire, and that will be placed into the equation.

    SFT is not a guarantee. You will fight for a spot. The avg cgpa for a tech major is 3.0/3.1, hence why I say 2.8 is not competitive. Why give you a scholarship and only to have that cgpa be too low for SFT selection. SFT only includes your 1st 3 semesters and they know it. 2.8 for your C100 yr., means fall C200 yr you need to amp it up to be selected for SFT.

    Understand only about 20% nationally are on scholarship, they are in the minority.

    As a C300 you will fill out your career dreams. If you want to fly(rated) that board meets around this time. If you want to go non-rated the board meets fall of your sr. yr. You will know your career path in the fall, location in the early spring, and report date late spring.

    As far as getting your teacher certificate, you can use Tuition Assistance (TA) and get a Masters degree in education. This pays 75% of the tuition while you are ADAF. However, each time you take the TA you will owe time to the AF. That commitment runs concurrent with the 4 yrs you will owe for commissioning.

    That is really far down the line, it is best to clear the 1st hurdle...SFT selection before thinking about another degree. NO SFT = dis-enrollment, which = no commissioning.

    Right now do well academically and physically.

    FWIW, your SAT/ACT scores will be part of your life in the future. It will be part of the selection process for scholarships and for SFT selection. It is not superscored, but best sitting. To give you an idea for HS scholarships a Type 1 recipient avgs 31 best sitting. So if your ACT is in the 24/25 or even below 28 keep taking them this spring. Taking the SAT/ACT at college is harder to do, because life has a habit of getting in the way...what kid wants to be studying for the SAT on top of their classes, plus ROTC, plus 8 a.m. Sat when the college FB game starts at 11?

    Good luck. Trust me there are many posters here that got ISS their freshman yr. There are several that got det. scholarships too. It happens, but right now I think nobody feels safe predicting anything regarding scholarships that will come out of next yrs defense budget.
     
  3. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very helpful.

    So from what I have read, it is going to be difficult in the months ahead for ROTC students to gain scholarships? Or are you saying it is just difficult because of the standards they set?

    I have a 28 on the ACT I have a 3.7 GPA. Though my GPA for HS will not matter in college for a scholarship correct? Only my college GPA will matter. I want to study civil engineering, will that make me a better candidate for a scholarship?
     
  4. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    930
    It is a little bit of both. Standards are not low by any means, and a 2.8 cgpa at Timbucktoo University is probably not going to cut it when 3.0 is the avg for SFT as a C200.

    The defense dept is going through budget issues because of the debt ceiling, although they kicked the can down the road again until May, budgets run Oct 1st -Sept 30th. That places you in the FY budget 14. Panetta is already moving forward with making sure there are fiscal plans in place for more budget cuts or sequestration. If they are willing to furlough defense contractors for a month, cancel some training, delay new platforms, what do you think the chances are that ROTC won't get nailed somehow or form?

    That is why I am saying a 2.8 cgpa AND budget are the reasons people would be reluctant to give any chances of a scholarship for next yr. That budget is a cloud over everyone's head.


    OBTW there is a third reason why I woudln't dare to chance regarding ISSP. 2-3 yrs ago that board was cancelled due to budget/personnel constraints. They had enough cadets in the program. I believe it was for Class of 13. They also cancelled OTS boards that yr too. Thus, experience alone in the past yrs that what occurred only 1 yr ago might not be an option a yr later.

    Now for the class of 14 it was back again, so again it goes both ways, which is why I say don't matriculate to a college believing that if you carry X cgpa you will get an ISS, you have to prepare for both paths.

    Additionally, remember if you are dis-enrolled because you weren't selected for SFT, that scholarship goes buh-bye. There are cadets that when they accepted the HSSP didn't realize the steep cost associated with the terms of the scholarship. Scholarship is not a factor or even known by the board when it comes to SFT selection.

    Finally, many cadets enter with a plan to major in a tech degree, many get there and decide they can't fathom 4 yrs of that education and want to switch to a non-tech major. The problem is you must get AFROTCHQ's approval to do so, and in this current climate it is hard to get it, nearly impossible is not an exxaggeration to say the least. If you apply fall fresh yr. and place CE as your major, you will be tied to a tech degree. There will most likely be NO option of saying I love Govt and want to major in that, AND keep the scholarship.

    ~~~I don't know about CE's regarding career fields, but that can also play into the situation regarding a scholarship. Some career fields are considered critical manning, and that gives them an edge. It has a double side to the sword, if you want to go rated and they consider the degree critical for ADAF you won't get that option. EE's are considered critical manning, I think almost 99% went to flying a desk, not a plane. Take the time to find out if CE is or is not critical manning.
     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2013
  5. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hmm very interesting.


    So say I do join AFROTC at Clemson. And I go ROTC through the classes for rotcand study CE
    But i dont get a scholarship. But i get a slot for FT. I am paying for my tution still correct? Then after i finish FT and finish jr. And sr. Year I can still get commison correct?
     
  6. SoleTrain

    SoleTrain Must be the Kicks

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    0
    Don't major in civil engineering to impress the Big Blue, many a cadet makes that mistake. Just major in something you enjoy and everything will fall into place.
     
  7. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,539
    Likes Received:
    1,002
  8. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Big blue? I want to study engineering as it does interest me. Especially structural engineering. I guess I could study industrial engineering and get a better GPA for a better chance as a ISS but civil is my choice for right now.

    PIMA say I study civil for first semester of freshman year, then I say I want to study industrial engineering will that be supper difficult? I know you said its not easy but its a tech to a tech major.

    Thanks guys.
     
  9. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Kinnem, as I said before I did 50 sit ups 60 push ups and I can do a 1.5 mile run in 1015. That's just me doing track for a few weeks inside. We have not been able to run lately cause of snow but I could get that 1.5 down easy. I ran cross county and did 16:59 5k given I was in my prime nut I can easily run 10 minutes.
     
  10. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    930
    I am guessing the ? after Big Blue was you didn't understand that was a reference to the AF.

    Yes, to your questions, you would still be commissioned even though you were never on scholarship. Scholarship cadets are the minority.

    Yes, you can change from CE to IE, but you would still need permission from them to do so. The thing is you are more likely to get approval from a tech major to another tech major, or a non-tech to a tech than you would have from tech to non-tech.

    Academically they are going to be involved, when you come on board there will be an anticipated graduation date, if changing your major will delay your graduation date they may say no in that case too.
     
  11. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    930
    John,

    10 is nowhere near max. Our DS was never a runner and his goal was always no more than 10:15. I think the max for the run is in the 8-9 minute marker. 5:30 is the max for the mile on the CFA, so if you take that time, multiply it by 1.5, and add a few seconds, max would than be 8 mins.

    As far as the sit ups and push ups this is where most cadets get in trouble. They typically see their numbers drop because of their form. ROTC cadets will nail you on the form, and it is not only wasted energy, but time because it didn't count in the 1st place.

    Your PE or track coach was probably just counting and letting the form slip, they won't in AFROTC.

    Kids also want to enjoy their final fun summer, they are not training for PT. During the summer you want to train in the rain, the heat, the everything because that is what you will do in ROTC. The PT test won't be re-scheduled in Jan. because it 10 degrees and snow flurries or even snow on the ground. Blizzard yes, but after that all bets are off. I have a picture of our DS running in sleet.

    That also doesn't address the fact that as a college kid living in dorms, where your roommate comes in at 1 and your sleep is disrupted how it will impact you when you have to be at PT at O Dark thirty. Our DS learned that lesson very quickly. During the summer he would go to bed at 1-2 a.m. and get up at 6 to train. He also ran at 4 pm because it was the hottest part of the day.
     
  12. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,539
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    I get it. You're an athletic god. But the times and scores you listed, while very good were not the maxes. Nor were you so expansive in your earlier post. Just wanted to make sure you knew what the maxes were. You're welcome!
     
  13. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,537
    Likes Received:
    837
    The best way to gauge your run time in ROTC is look at what your running before you start track season at high school. I would imagine you run some in the off season just to stay in shape. What you have to realize is that once at college and ROTC you will no longer have track or cross country practice every day like in high school (Unless your on the College Track Team). PT does not revolve around just running, you will never be as you put it "In your prime nut"

    There are a lot of ex high school track runners that are surprised to see that their times are nothing like they were in high school. You will be doing varied PT, working on the whole body fitness.

    The fastest runner for 4 years in my son's battalion was a tennis player, never ran track.

    As far as your PU's and SU's go, what you do in high school or at track practice is nothing like what you will do in ROTC. Everyone thinks they are doing the PU's and SU's in the correct form in high school, that is most often not the case. The first PT Test a cadet takes is usually a shock, thinking they could do 50 or 60 PU's only to find that only about 30 to 40 counted. Be prepared to see those numbers you have now drop a bit once you start doing them to the regulation standards. True PU's done to standard are much harder then most think.

    I'm not saying your not in shape, you are average right now, once the standards are enforced your numbers could drop. Continue to work out, don't rest with where your at, go beyond so you can afford the drop due to enforced standards.
     
  14. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    I want to apologize for sounding cocky. I know that my coach's idea of a PU and SU is very different than that in ROTC. The reason I ask about the PF stuff is because I wanted to know what to expect if I do join the program. I don't want to say that I am nervous for the physical aspect of the program if I join but I don't want to fail if I do join. I am not in it for the money, though a scholarship would be wonderful, I want to join because I want to serve our country and be a leader. I know I am on my soap box but I just wanted to get my thoughts out there.
     
  15. John12

    John12 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2013
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    BTW I meant to say "but" not "nut"
     
  16. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,537
    Likes Received:
    837
    That's a great attitude to have.
     
  17. Jcleppe

    Jcleppe Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2010
    Messages:
    5,537
    Likes Received:
    837
    I was wondering about that....thought it was some new High School term I hadn't heard.
     
  18. kinnem

    kinnem Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2010
    Messages:
    7,539
    Likes Received:
    1,002
    If your determined, and you certainly sound like you are, and you work at it, you will not fail... in fact I have no doubt you'll be quite successful. But it takes work and you need to know your targets. I, like jcleppe, admire your attitude. It's that attitude and desire to serve that drove my son to take a similar route and enroll in NROTC without a scholarship. It's also what won him a scholarship this past semester. Keep at it. You'll do well. :thumb:
     
  19. Pima

    Pima Parent

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    12,796
    Likes Received:
    930
    Jcleppe and kinnem are correct. Positive attitude and desire to serve are important factors not only in ROTC, but also AD. There are always going to be great days and days you want to pack it in. Your attitude will help you make it from the pack it in days to the great days.

    Good luck. Just remember we are always here to assist, it might not be what you want to hear/read, but it is always meant with the best intentions.
     
  20. Thompson

    Thompson Member

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2012
    Messages:
    767
    Likes Received:
    43
    Just wanted to chime in real quick;

    Wait; what's the difference between ISSP and Det scholarships?
     

Share This Page